F400 Clan Ranking - Needs Repair

[John Deere]

Why don't the parties arguing here start a challenge thread and sort it on the battlefield? None of this debate has anything to do with the F400 and is derailing the thread.

I dont think we have any interest of facing them in the battlefield after this. But your right, we will get the thread back on topic.

IcePack

Come on Ice! I call BS! Ge out there a prove who is better Some clans had to suck it up and face us Some would not... If you think you guys can win you better get out there and school them

[IcePack]

Why don't the parties arguing here start a challenge thread and sort it on the battlefield? None of this debate has anything to do with the F400 and is derailing the thread.

I dont think we have any interest of facing them in the battlefield after this. But your right, we will get the thread back on topic.

IcePack

Come on Ice! I call BS! Ge out there a prove who is better Some clans had to suck it up and face us Some would not... If you think you guys can win you better get out there and school them

We are facing other clans currently, even of we chose to face them it wouldn't happen immediately anyway. There is always CL or CC. Either way, this is F400 thread. Let's move on.

IcePack

[Bruceswar]

Why don't the parties arguing here start a challenge thread and sort it on the battlefield? None of this debate has anything to do with the F400 and is derailing the thread.

I dont think we have any interest of facing them in the battlefield after this. But your right, we will get the thread back on topic.

IcePack

Come on Ice! I call BS! Ge out there a prove who is better Some clans had to suck it up and face us Some would not... If you think you guys can win you better get out there and school them

We are facing other clans currently, even of we chose to face them it wouldn't happen immediately anyway. There is always CL or CC. Either way, this is F400 thread. Let's move on.

IcePack

Yeah step up and face them!! Don't wimp out! In other news... KORT is still ranked 1 and if we beat TOFU I wonder what that will do to the rankings.

[betiko]

Why don't the parties arguing here start a challenge thread and sort it on the battlefield? None of this debate has anything to do with the F400 and is derailing the thread.

I dont think we have any interest of facing them in the battlefield after this. But your right, we will get the thread back on topic.

IcePack

Come on Ice! I call BS! Ge out there a prove who is better Some clans had to suck it up and face us Some would not... If you think you guys can win you better get out there and school them

We are facing other clans currently, even of we chose to face them it wouldn't happen immediately anyway. There is always CL or CC. Either way, this is F400 thread. Let's move on.

IcePack

Yeah step up and face them!! Don't wimp out! In other news... KORT is still ranked 1 and if we beat TOFU I wonder what that will do to the rankings.

you might wwant to beat tofu first!

[Bruceswar]

Why don't the parties arguing here start a challenge thread and sort it on the battlefield? None of this debate has anything to do with the F400 and is derailing the thread.

I dont think we have any interest of facing them in the battlefield after this. But your right, we will get the thread back on topic.

IcePack

Come on Ice! I call BS! Ge out there a prove who is better Some clans had to suck it up and face us Some would not... If you think you guys can win you better get out there and school them

We are facing other clans currently, even of we chose to face them it wouldn't happen immediately anyway. There is always CL or CC. Either way, this is F400 thread. Let's move on.

IcePack

Yeah step up and face them!! Don't wimp out! In other news... KORT is still ranked 1 and if we beat TOFU I wonder what that will do to the rankings.

you might wwant to beat tofu first!

Don't worry we plan on it.

[Keefie]

This whole argument has been stage managed. The Opticians are just too plain scared to face The Fallen, who in turn, are shitting themselves at the thought of facing the Opticians. The easy option, fake a row, fall out, and they all save face

[Qwert]

This whole argument has been stage managed. The Opticians are just too plain scared to face The Fallen, who in turn, are shitting themselves at the thought of facing the Opticians. The easy option, fake a row, fall out, and they all save face

Opticians i like these name change

[IcePack]

Anyone interested in an update on the 15th? Any / many wars completed?

[Dako]

We are — big win over PACK completed :P. I think another CCup quarter-finals want them to be included as well.

[josko.ri]

I think it is better to not update all before you include Random League II results from December. You have already ranking which is not accurate excluding those 100+ games, so when on inaccurate rankings you chain more results which are directly related to the inaccurate ones because strength of an opponents also has important role in rankings, then the final standings become even more inaccurate.

[Dako]

They should be added if they are moved to completed challenges and have finished. Are they?

[IcePack]

I think it is better to not update all before you include Random League II results from December. You have already ranking which is not accurate excluding those 100+ games, so when on inaccurate rankings you chain more results which are directly related to the inaccurate ones because strength of an opponents also has important role in rankings, then the final standings become even more inaccurate.

As previousky mentioned, Random League II is waiting on the organizer (benga) to provide the information. If you participated in a League and want the results included, the basic F400 info needs to be provided and so far that hasn't happened. I know last we spoke benga was working on that, I haven't gotten an update as to we're it is. If you'd like the data included, perhaps helping or following up with organizers will help.

After the CL4, it was clear that organizers needed to step up and provide more info since the CD's treat the wars differently (they don't log final dates, and scores in threads weren't accurate or completed in some cases) that it needed to be addressed.

The simplest way to address it is to require organizers to provide the information. If no info is provided, it won't be included (same goes for CL5). I feel if large events like this don't see any improvement in organization, either the community will cry foul loud enough it improves, the community will step up, or the organizers will do the work to attract clans in the competition. Nobody will sign up for an event of they know the organizer won't provide info for F400 and it won't be included, for example. (this was mentioned several times in CL5 thread w little comment).

Organizers of an event need to be held responsible for accurate and complete data of competition, otherwise why run an event when someone else can who would provide the data?
Bracket events (like CC3) are already included by CD's so there is no change to this.

As far as accuracy, when / if I receive the info it won't make inaccurate ranks. There will be very minor reflection in the +/- catagory. I'm happy to hold off for RL2, but I'm not delaying forever on one event.

IcePack

[IcePack]

They should be added if they are moved to completed challenges and have finished. Are they?

The last several months the wars being moved to completed are regularly 2-8 weeks behind.
I have had to get the completed info from active challenge area for awhile now once all games complete and final score is marked.

[Keefie]

I feel that the above comments regarding organisation of the Random League to be rather harsh.

Benga runs a great competition that is regularly updated and all of the results are available at this website. It's far better organised than the last Clan League was.

http://randoml.leaguerepublic.com/ProcessPublicSelect.do;jsessionid=CE6B6CDC73FB7F8B485B9A9D8DCEFC8D.cmsreporting2?psSelectedSeason=909254707&psSelectedDivision=1957542&psSelectedLeague=2988246

Does the exact finish date of all of these 12 game mini wars really have that much impact ???? The start dates for all of them are available at the above site, just add a couple of weeks to them for each war and you wont be far wrong. Seems to me that some folks on here are just being a little to pedantic/demanding.

[betiko]

i think that like in tennis there should be seasons and put an end date where the best clan of the year is nominated (the one with the best ranking...). could be the 31st of december, or could be around april with the end of the cc?

oh and yeah i like the opticians as a nickname!

[IcePack]

Keefie,
Most of those "harsh" comments were about CL4 not random league. Benga runs a great league, but I don't have the final info on his event so it hasn't been included.

[Keefie]

It's all available on the website. Does the exact finish date really matter that much ???? As I said add 14 days to the start date and you wont be far wrong.

[IcePack]

It's all available on the website. Does the exact finish date really matter that much ???? As I said add 14 days to the start date and you wont be far wrong.

Yes I know it is. Just like it was for CL4. But after that fiasco it was said that organizers need to provide better info (CL4 had scores wrong or not updated even). Final scores and end dates do matter.

Thanks,
IcePack

[Keefie]

Of course the bloody scores matter. But if your out by a day or two on the end date of a 12 game mini war - DOES IT REALLY MATTER !!!!!

[benga]

I am making the update as we speak, will have it by the end of day or night

[IcePack]

I am making the update as we speak, will have it by the end of day or night

Sounds good thanks benga

[Keefie]

"You are clearly not understanding what I've said. Its up to the organizers. You arent really contributing to the discussion by repeating the same thing over and over. Unless you have something more constructive to say, i wont be reaponding to you anymore in F400. Thanks and have a great day."

Thanks for the pm Ice

I was hoping for an answer to my question.

Gunn never used to put in the CL results and when he did, he stated quite clearly that their impact was minimal. I'm all for these mini war results being included but if having the exact end dates makes the data collection onerous for the organisers, then what would the impact be if the end date was input as 14 days after the start date (which is freely available). If the difference is zero or negligible, is the extra data collection worth the effort ?

[IcePack]

"You are clearly not understanding what I've said. Its up to the organizers. You arent really contributing to the discussion by repeating the same thing over and over. Unless you have something more constructive to say, i wont be reaponding to you anymore in F400. Thanks and have a great day."

Thanks for the pm Ice

I was hoping for an answer to my question.

Gunn never used to put in the CL results and when he did, he stated quite clearly that their impact was minimal. I'm all for these mini war results being included but if having the exact end dates makes the data collection onerous for the organisers, then what would the impact be if the end date was input as 14 days after the start date (which is freely available). If the difference is zero or negligible, is the extra data collection worth the effort ?

Gunn didn't do it because it was a lot of work to do CL on his own. I agree, but it does matter for accurate results. It's "minimal" but when the top few clans are only a few points apart, minimal can determine first and third. To date you are correct, this wasn't done. But whether it's a small 12 game mini war like RL or giant CL behemoth they should be treated equally. Generally speaking its not "a day or two" difference in games, but sometimes weeks.

So whether it's a 12 mini RL or full CL it will be up to the organizers to provide accurate information.

Hope the answer is clearer this time and thanks for calmly discussing the matter more constructively. It's appreciated.

IcePack

[Keefie]

Ok thanks mate.

[benga]

RL II

PIG-TFFS 4-8
2012-07-28 19:25:50 - Bigroo4601, beeps, jakevv won the game

MD-TNC 3-9
2012-07-27 16:04:12 - germwarfare, LordDusan, ViperOverLord, Annexator won the game

FOED-HH 9-3
2012-08-04 04:13:52 - snuden, Keefie, Googilibear, leapfrog won the game

OSA-DYN 7-5
2012-08-30 14:47:11 - emporium, Mizzou3181, privatejj, sandman175 won the game

MB-TFFS 1-11
2012-08-10 05:26:11 - beeps, Bigroo4601, hambone won the game

PIG-HH 6-6
2012-08-03 09:44:47 - joeaggie98, istanbul39, Mr_Adams won the game

DYN-MD 5-7
2012-08-04 12:48:01 - brakh, blindman30, sarphinius, LordDusan won the gam

FOED-OSA 6-6
2012-08-26 00:04:31 - TX AG 90, privatejj, Mizzou3181, dakky21 won the game

MB-TNC 6-6
2012-08-26 00:59:33 - AlamoJake, alf300, B.L.Sebub, biomansalisbury won the game

TFFS-HH 10-2
2012-08-22 03:57:28 - patrickaa317, shoop76, SpiteMalice won the game

PIG-OSA 6-6
2012-08-20 01:59:23 - Mizzou3181, killboy108, dakky21, rh-headhunter won the game

FOED-MD 5-7
2012-09-10 18:15:57 - KiIIface, Pantheon, ViperOverLord, VikingRage won the game

MB-HH 1-11
2012-09-07 16:04:37 - Googilibear, snuden, Johnny Dickshot, Awesome A won the game

DYN-TNC 7-5
2012-09-04 00:40:54 - ckyrias, MoB Deadly, mcshanester29 won the game

TFFS-OSA 3-9
2012-09-16 16:09:52 - V.J., sandman175, jug68, emporium won the game

MD-PIG 7-5
2012-08-30 14:32:13 - IR1SH ACE, Conchobar, rabid_rabbit, tkr4lf won the game

MB-DYN 1-11
2012-09-22 11:45:57 - Spino, CAPK81, dunewarr, TheProwler won the game

HH-OSA 4-8
2012-09-13 22:37:11 - Keefie, Mr_Adams, leapfrog, vragus won the game

TNC-FOED 5-7
2012-10-01 07:20:02 - ddgrimes, clanger35, Namliam, Kabanellas won the game

OSA-MB 12-0
2012-10-05 14:59:57 - Field-Marshal Ot, geko, hutchkov, Dario77 won the game

FOED-DYN 5-7
2012-10-27 03:20:06 - WPBRJ, hotfire, pearljamrox2 won the game

MD-HH 5-7
2012-09-26 01:29:47 - snuden, Awesome A, Googilibear, Johnny Dickshot won the game

PIG-TNC 7-5
2012-10-08 10:39:29 - EminenceGrise, dana1971, Claudard, BlackKnight_6 won the game

MB-FOED 3-9
2012-10-14 10:43:08 - Imyahuckleberry, Kabanellas, Namliam won the game

TNC-TFFS 10-2
2012-10-18 04:57:57 - EminenceGrise, dana1971, tenbar, uyumaykimaw won the game

DYN-PIG 2-10
2012-10-31 20:06:20 - IR1SH ACE, Conchobar, rabid_rabbit won the game

OSA-MD 6-6
2012-10-18 02:20:50 - LordDusan, deantursx, blindman30, Gigi1 won the game

TFFS-MD 5-7
2012-09-29 18:04:24 - aspalm, beeps, dgkb99, jakevv won the game

MB-MD 10-2
2012-10-20 00:36:19 - KiIIface, Pantheon, ViperOverLord, fiction won the game

PIG-FOED 9-3
2012-11-01 03:42:37 - IR1SH ACE, Conchobar, rabid_rabbit, tkr4lf won the game

DYN-TFFS 5-7
2012-11-02 21:37:06 - beeps, dgkb99, jakevv won the game

TNC-HH 8-4
2012-11-04 04:06:01 - dana1971, Epitaph1, pricejam2 won the game

DYN-HH 5-7
2012-11-08 03:01:01 - dunewarr, Drew483, hotfire, KraphtOne won the game

PIG-MB 11-1
2012-11-03 01:47:06 - joe snuffy eliminated donnynewnan from the game

OSA-TNC 6-6
2012-11-15 03:13:44 - Dario77, dakky21, V.J., Zoki77 won the game

FOED-TFFS 8-4
2012-11-17 07:23:08 - aaronvollrath eliminated Imyahuckleberry from the game