[POLY] 1st POLY Clan Challenge - FALL Wins 26-15 Final 6/28

[GoranZ]

[POLY] 1st POLY Clan Challenge ***NEW EVENT***

All games will be POLY 1v1s, played in best of 3 series. Each clan will have 20 home + 20 away game series. Each series will be a best of 3 consisting of 1 POLY(2), 1 POLY(3) and 1 POLY(4). No clan map limits. No map repeats for individual players. 41st series played on Random (auto, sequential, 24hr, no spoils, chained, sunny, no trench), best of 3 consisting of 1 POLY(2), 1 POLY(3), 1 POLY(4). Clan’s 1st Contact will create the games and invite home players.

series of 3 games?
for the WORST possible limitation.

P.S. Can you change the title to [POLY] 1st and last POLY Series Clan Challenge [12/12] and leave room for real poly event to be organized in the future.

[Donelladan]

Seriously GoranZ ? A bit of respect for people that work on it would it be possible ? Is everyone that rude where you come from ?

Did you even take the time to read this thread or you came just here to post some bullshit ?
This challenge and its limitations have been discussed and the OP was nice enough to listen to the concerns of many clan players, your clan leader participated in this discussion.
If you had something to say about it you could have done it earlier when everyone was discussing it. Please read the thread, it was discussed here in public.
Coming when everything has already been settled and saying that was has been done is wrong is .. I have no word to describe how dumb and disrespectful I find your behaviour and your post.

At least, please, would you explain your point of view ? Because saying this is the worst possible limitation is really not enough.

Honestly, did you forgot your meds ?

This is the first edition, and of course, based on how well or bad it works, modification will be made in the next challenge. It is a continual improvement process, just like CL7 and CC6 had modifications compared to the previous editions.

[benga]

POLY is now active, you can start your wars right away. the sooner the better, we've already had enough delay as it is.
I haven't set specific deadlines. if things are stalling let me know.

we are prepared to wait for sm to be ready, they have asked for 2,5 weeks, so yes or no?

[IcePack]

Our war with HH will start May 1st

[josko.ri]

POLY is now active, you can start your wars right away. the sooner the better, we've already had enough delay as it is.
I haven't set specific deadlines. if things are stalling let me know.

we are prepared to wait for sm to be ready, they have asked for 2,5 weeks, so yes or no?

We want to avoid overlapping to have on the same Sunday both Poly event and Random League. Random League has week after week last rounds on April 24 and May 1 so I would like if we can start the Poly event on May 8th to avoid overlapping.

[rockfist]

Seriously GoranZ ? A bit of respect for people that work on it would it be possible ? Is everyone that rude where you come from ?

Did you even take the time to read this thread or you came just here to post some bullshit ?
This challenge and its limitations have been discussed and the OP was nice enough to listen to the concerns of many clan players, your clan leader participated in this discussion.
If you had something to say about it you could have done it earlier when everyone was discussing it. Please read the thread, it was discussed here in public.
Coming when everything has already been settled and saying that was has been done is wrong is .. I have no word to describe how dumb and disrespectful I find your behaviour and your post.

At least, please, would you explain your point of view ? Because saying this is the worst possible limitation is really not enough.

Honestly, did you forgot your meds ?

This is the first edition, and of course, based on how well or bad it works, modification will be made in the next challenge. It is a continual improvement process, just like CL7 and CC6 had modifications compared to the previous editions.

I agree.

[GoranZ]

Seriously GoranZ ? A bit of respect for people that work on it would it be possible ? Is everyone that rude where you come from ?

Did you even take the time to read this thread or you came just here to post some bullshit ?
This challenge and its limitations have been discussed and the OP was nice enough to listen to the concerns of many clan players, your clan leader participated in this discussion.
If you had something to say about it you could have done it earlier when everyone was discussing it. Please read the thread, it was discussed here in public.
Coming when everything has already been settled and saying that was has been done is wrong is .. I have no word to describe how dumb and disrespectful I find your behaviour and your post.

At least, please, would you explain your point of view ? Because saying this is the worst possible limitation is really not enough.

Honestly, did you forgot your meds ?

This is the first edition, and of course, based on how well or bad it works, modification will be made in the next challenge. It is a continual improvement process, just like CL7 and CC6 had modifications compared to the previous editions.

Before proposing something, everyone should consider what is the audience for the proposal. First limitation is not for freemiums, no one can do anything about it tho. Second limitation is not for beginner clans, presumable because they are still not established same as their members. Third limitation is not suitable for clans with small number of active players. Second and third limitations are easily avoidable. Just use more games, probably something between 61 to 81 range, and treat the victories as with normal clan war.

Sure established clans like mine and yours will not have significant problems for finding adequate players for the away series but half of CC clans will have. The proposal as it is, simply gives unproportional advantage to established and big clans especially in their home series(and with that half of the job is done before the start of the series). The advantage is so drastic that it can not be compared to normal war or even 1v1 standard challenge.
I presume no one didn't put him self in the shoes in those clans, and take into account of their abilities and limitations(remember when both FALL and LHDD were one of those non established and small clans). And although less established and smaller clans would like to have a chance to play vs FALL or LHDD on new poly event they would not dare losing 20:0 in away series, it will simply brake their spirit if they have win 20 games and dont take a single point.

[rockfist]

You really are full of yourself. Not even a small clan or new clan would lose 20-0. 15-5 maybe.

[Donelladan]

First, I wanna say that was a nice post GoranZ, you should have done it like that the first time.
The setting for this challenge are already decided though, but I guess it can be discussed anyway, could bring some things for the new edition.

You said that we can use more game to avoid the 2nd and 3rd limitation. 2nd and 3rd limitation being not for beginner clans and not for small clans.
How using more games make it easier for small and/or new clan ?

Or you meant, get ride of the series ( best of 3) and use 61 ot 81 single games, with a single victory in a game count one point each ?
If so, please note that this has been discussed, a poll has been made, and majority decided to go for a best of 3 with 41 games.
Before it was a best of 5

But the main point against this, if we do so then this challenge become boring in my opinion. I'll have close to no interest playing such a challenge, and I'd rather have a standard war than a simple full poly war.

Sure established clans like mine and yours will not have significant problems for finding adequate players for the away series but half of CC clans will have.

I am not so sure about that.
Speaking of LHDD not all our members are interested in the challenge, some of our old players, and therefore most experienced, won't participate at all, and some new LHDD member will.
But even if all our members would participate I think we could have hard time finding adequate players for the away series. Because we have very few players that are very good on 100 different maps.

In a normal clans wars, every players take his favorite map as home, but also as away, everyone take usually maps they know pretty well. So I'd say you can definitely win clan wars having players that are specialists only on a handful of map.

Also, if you look at the top ranked players, regardless of clans, you'll see that most of them have very few games played, and are actually not experienced at all on many maps and settings ( many do not have the gold cross map medal for example, some not even silver or bronze). They are still very good asset for their clans because they can bring in a few maps on which they have an extremely high win ratio. But they probably will be not so good for such a challenge.

And this is why for me this challenge really interesting because of the best of 3 series to win a point.
I'll agree with you, it will be very difficult to win some away sets. And yes, top clans will probably crush small clans, but I think it would be the case anyway whatever setting we take, that's why some are at the top.

[GoranZ]

First, I wanna say that was a nice post GoranZ, you should have done it like that the first time.
The setting for this challenge are already decided though, but I guess it can be discussed anyway, could bring some things for the new edition.

You said that we can use more game to avoid the 2nd and 3rd limitation. 2nd and 3rd limitation being not for beginner clans and not for small clans.
How using more games make it easier for small and/or new clan ?

Or you meant, get ride of the series ( best of 3) and use 61 ot 81 single games, with a single victory in a game count one point each ?
If so, please note that this has been discussed, a poll has been made, and majority decided to go for a best of 3 with 41 games.
Before it was a best of 5

But the main point against this, if we do so then this challenge become boring in my opinion. I'll have close to no interest playing such a challenge, and I'd rather have a standard war than a simple full poly war.

Yes I was referring single games, and not series as it is used now. Regardless how it was voted 61 to 81 singles is the best possible game setup for poly event.

Sure established clans like mine and yours will not have significant problems for finding adequate players for the away series but half of CC clans will have.

I am not so sure about that.
Speaking of LHDD not all our members are interested in the challenge, some of our old players, and therefore most experienced, won't participate at all, and some new LHDD member will.
But even if all our members would participate I think we could have hard time finding adequate players for the away series. Because we have very few players that are very good on 100 different maps.

In a normal clans wars, every players take his favorite map as home, but also as away, everyone take usually maps they know pretty well. So I'd say you can definitely win clan wars having players that are specialists only on a handful of map.

Also, if you look at the top ranked players, regardless of clans, you'll see that most of them have very few games played, and are actually not experienced at all on many maps and settings ( many do not have the gold cross map medal for example, some not even silver or bronze). They are still very good asset for their clans because they can bring in a few maps on which they have an extremely high win ratio. But they probably will be not so good for such a challenge.

And this is why for me this challenge really interesting because of the best of 3 series to win a point.
I'll agree with you, it will be very difficult to win some away sets. And yes, top clans will probably crush small clans, but I think it would be the case anyway whatever setting we take, that's why some are at the top.

Away series will be a problem for everyone, for some more then for others but generally the advantage goes to established clans, established clans dodge easily.
The problem for beginner clans is that no matter how weak they are they can still pull out some victories here and there normal war. With series of games they will need to pull out more then 1 game. Thats the real drawback.

[Keefie]

There are no 'beginner' clans participating in this.

[Donelladan]

There are no 'beginner' clans participating in this.

GoranZ's point, if I got it correctly, is that beginner clan don't join because of the setup that has been chosen for this challenge. Knowing they'd lose 20-0 against a top clan.

Regardless how it was voted 61 to 81 singles is the best possible game setup for poly event.

Again, this is a point of view. To me this best of 3 serie is much better because it offers a totally new experience, a different challenge.
A standard war but replacing all team games by polymorphic looks boring to me, I do not really see the point of doing that.

Also, you said new clans would lose 20-0 on the home clan of a top clan. But they'd be crushed anyway in a 81 wars games as well. Maybe they'd have 35-5 instead of 20-0 on the home game of the established clans, is that such a difference ? I don't think so, if they don't have the level to compete they do not have it regardless of the setup we take.

[Tazzy_J]

Hi,

looks like ATN have a few weeks to sharpen our game with a bye in round 1...

Can I just confirm as there didn't seem to be a final decision above:

Is it definitely still 2 home and 2 away per player? Not 3/1 or 4/0...? Or is that now wholly negotiable between clans?

Also can i confirm whether the same player can play the same maps in both home sets, or whether they must be different?

Thanks,

Taz

[Donelladan]

Is it definitely still 2 home and 2 away per player? Not 3/1 or 4/0...? Or is that now wholly negotiable between clans?

Standard rule is 2 home 2 away per player, but you can negotiate it to have simply 4 max per player doesn't matter home/away.

Also can i confirm whether the same player can play the same maps in both home sets, or whether they must be different?

No map repeat for one player even if this player play 2 different home set.

From first post : No clan map limits. No map repeats for individual players.

[Keefie]

There really aren't any 'beginner' clans at the moment. The newest is Tank Squad.

[Tazzy_J]

Is it definitely still 2 home and 2 away per player? Not 3/1 or 4/0...? Or is that now wholly negotiable between clans?

Standard rule is 2 home 2 away per player, but you can negotiate it to have simply 4 max per player doesn't matter home/away.

Also can i confirm whether the same player can play the same maps in both home sets, or whether they must be different?

No map repeat for one player even if this player play 2 different home set.

From first post : No clan map limits. No map repeats for individual players.

Thanks Don

[uckuki]

as for Goran's post - now it's little late for suggestions and criticisms.
we'll play it out and fix glitches if any, change format if needed.

we are prepared to wait for sm to be ready, they have asked for 2,5 weeks, so yes or no?

I have no specific deadlines in place like Lx. I would encourage the clans to start as soon as possible.
maybe you can start with just OSA's batch first, to get things going, then s&m's a few days later,
something like that?

Hi,
Is it definitely still 2 home and 2 away per player? Not 3/1 or 4/0...? Or is that now wholly negotiable between clans?

Also can i confirm whether the same player can play the same maps in both home sets, or whether they must be different?

Thanks,

Taz

don explained it. key is: no map repeats for individual players in their home sets. away maps don't count.

[josko.ri]

maybe you can start with just OSA's batch first, to get things going, then s&m's a few days later,
something like that?

I would really want to avoid overlapping this competition with Random League especially as RL is having last 2 rounds with only 1 week difference.
Also I see FALL will be starting 1st of May, so my proposed start of 8th of May is reasonably on the schedule with other clans, it is not such a big gap waiting.
Please give us enough time until 8th of May so that we do not overlap at the same week having RL and Poly games.

[uckuki]

Bracket:
http://challonge.com/1stPOLY#

[IcePack]

maybe you can start with just OSA's batch first, to get things going, then s&m's a few days later,
something like that?

I would really want to avoid overlapping this competition with Random League especially as RL is having last 2 rounds with only 1 week difference.
Also I see FALL will be starting 1st of May, so my proposed start of 8th of May is reasonably on the schedule with other clans, it is not such a big gap waiting.
Please give us enough time until 8th of May so that we do not overlap at the same week having RL and Poly games.

1st of May gave both clans 2 weeks for planning, which was pretty generous but both of us busy IRL/volunteering so it made sense.
FALL is in RL as well, but we knew by committing to both we'd be busier for a short time (2 weeks).

[The_Samurai]

It might have been discussed and I missed it? Just want to double-check?

Each player can play a max of 2 home games series, which must be on 2 separate maps. Each series include 1 Poly[2], 1 Poly[3] and 1 Poly[4].

My question is: Should all 3 Poly be played with the same settings, or can the settings be different between Poly[2], [3] and [4] for the same map ?

Cheers.
Fred

[IcePack]

It might have been discussed and I missed it? Just want to double-check?

Each player can play a max of 2 home games series, which must be on 2 separate maps. Each series include 1 Poly[2], 1 Poly[3] and 1 Poly[4].

My question is: Should all 3 Poly be played with the same settings, or can the settings be different between Poly[2], [3] and [4] for the same map ?

Cheers.
Fred

The series are all on seperate maps.
So one series is NOT:
Poison Rome dubs NS CH F
Poison Rome trips
Poison Rome quads

One series IS:
Poison Rome dubs NS ch fog
Classic trips esc ch fog
Draknor quads NS ch fog

[Keefie]

Also 2 home set as and 2 away sets is not mandatory. 3-1 or 0-4 will be ok as long as your opposition are in agreement.

[The_Samurai]

Thanks IP and Keith for the clarifications - I misunderstood completely on those ones - lol - not good to be too sober I guess - the neurons (the few I have0 need to be perfectly lubricated to work properly

[josko.ri]

I just double check, can maps be aor1 aor2 aor3 they are perceived as different maps true?