Conquer Club

If you think of the term Conqueror, what does that make you think of?

A player who is the best of the best, and honestly if you are a one trick pony, you are the best of one map with one settings. Yeah it does take a lot of discipline to play just that one map, one or two games at a time, but what does that really prove?

Conquer Club Conqueror needs to be just that, a player who is the best of the best, across the site.

So, conqueror needs to be the highest ranked player who has achieved the platinum cross-map level.

We can maybe have a one trick pony medal for those who have a high score, but cant even get past the bronze cross map level.

I think the requirement of having cross-map medals is a great way to weed out those who have a single (or even a couple) of maps they excel at, but rarely play anything else. If the requirement were at least a silver (maybe gold) cross-map medal it would accomplish that.

I think this already has been discussed somewhere, I remember a discussion surrounding medal requirements to be eligible for the all time leaderboard. It won't happen

That said, requiring certain medals ie cross map and some type of minimum game requirement like you have to be active and playing X amount of OPPONENTS per calendar month. I dunno.

oof! that would certainly make things a bit more interesting at the top of the leaderboard... . platinum xmap is def. one of the more difficult medals to obtain, imo. what's naruto got? silver?

riskllama wrote:oof! that would certainly make things a bit more interesting at the top of the leaderboard... . platinum xmap is def. one of the more difficult medals to obtain, imo. what's naruto got? silver?

He has no cross-map medal at all. Not even a bronze.

Finally it is here.

I feel like gold would suffice. At the end of the day, Naruto has NO cross map medal at all. He's a one-trick pony. Gold would be enough to kick him off and make the scoreboard fun again for the generals of the site.

To obtain gold, you have to actually be playing the game and not farming a couple maps. Most people playing the game properly will gain it naturally over time, and that's how it should be.

My issue is that I feel it doesn't really prevent the issue it tries to adress. You just need someone motivated enough to get platinum cross-map, then go back to playing a single setting over and over. It would prevent the current conqueror from keeping the title, but it wouldn't prevent any future 1-trick pony from taking a page from his textbook. Imo requiring x numbers of different maps played a month would be a better solution (but then you'd be making x-trick ponies conqueror, or have them play unending games on (x-1) maps and sticking to being 1-trick ponies, there will always be room for abuse).

That being said, I'd rather have a 1-trick pony conqueror who at least played other maps than one who did nothing of the sort.

Most definitely a great suggested.

Maybe someone can run a poll. If we get enough players to vote, it can be taken to Management with more weight for it to be considered ?

It's bad to make a rule against one player.

Also completely agree with ZaBeast argument, that doesn't prevent anything. It just means more preparation for the conqueror.

And I think 95% of the conqueror got there with a trick.
The other ones, even though they had way more maps played, they also got to the top by restricting the game they played.
It's the way of the scoreboard.
You can't be on the top playing all maps.
5800 points is extremely high, you have to be winning more than 80% of your games against brigadier. It's insane. No one can do that playing open everything.

Just change scoring system altogether if you don't want a conqueror farming a specific map,

Donelladan wrote:It's bad to make a rule against one player.

Also completely agree with ZaBeast argument, that doesn't prevent anything. It just means more preparation for the conqueror.

And I think 95% of the conqueror got there with a trick.
The other ones, even though they had way more maps played, they also got to the top by restricting the game they played.
It's the way of the scoreboard.
You can't be on the top playing all maps.
5800 points is extremely high, you have to be winning more than 80% of your games against brigadier. It's insane. No one can do that playing open everything.

Just change scoring system altogether if you don't want a conqueror farming a specific map,

While I agree that making a rule against one player isn't a good thing, this is a unique case. Anyone else who got to the top by a 'trick' didn't hold the scoreboard hostage for 5 years. Outstanding players who should have had a shot at conqueror have given up because it simply is no longer attainable, effectively making that scoreboard useless. Perhaps your last suggestion of changing the scoring system altogether is the best option. Something should be done.

btw, while it's not common, it is possible to get to the top without using tricks or restrictions. My favorite doubles partner, ahunda, did that. He foed no one and played whatever map he felt like playing or was invited to play. I'm sure he's not the only one, and there are plenty more who didn't quite make it to Conqueror because someone else was farming and hogging the top spot.

I am for changing the scoring system. Its based on a Ladder system right that is great for a tier Match Making system and not anyone can join your game. Changing the scoring system to something more balanced would only encourage more game play which is a good thing.

I am not a fan of changing rules to get the Conquer knocked off ... that just looks shitty IMO. Just make the scoring system Flat Rate instead of Esc

That will make it where the true power houses shine on the scoreboard ...

Its really hard to join a casual game with an enlisted rank to just gain 8 points and potentially lose 70+ in some cases. Changing the scoring system to Flat Rate will give the site more activity and the best of the best will rise to the top. The scoreboard would receive a big shake up. Active + Game Count + WIn Percent would be whats needed to rise to the top. I know quite a few players that would sky rocket up the leader board ( They probably deserve to be there to ). Some of the best players on this sight stay between Major & Brig ranks ... IMO. All Time Score Board should reflect bad ass active players end of story lol

I wrote this in 2020 :
I did not read this entire thread but I think the ladder system used to acquire points is not suited for Open/Public games used on CC. It's more suited for skill-based matchmaking. Meaning your only playing against players that are the same caliber as you and hold similar ranks. So a Captain would only get matched up with +1 rank or -1 rank from him IE: Majors & Lts and everyone in between those ranks. Most games with the ladder system are using some sort of Ranked Play: Bronze, Silver, Gold, Diamond leagues and they don't match up Diamond players with Bronze or Silver players. And those types of games are solely based on SKill ... Luck plays a little factor in who is the victor. CC would not thrive with that kind of system tho (PLayer count & Settings). I think the point system should be a set number no matter what rank the player is. +20 for win per player or -20 for lose ... to play devil advocate here I could see players farming worst players way more and that would not prove who the best player is either. As much as I don't agree with the point system I'm not sure how to actually fix it or that it even broke. There is plenty of Sgt ranked players that I would not want to play against because I know their skill level matches mine and I have more points to lose. I'm not for taking points away from the top ranks only ( They Earned them). It would have to be taken away from all players in the game. Conqueror Rank is not the best player on CC IMO its just who has the most score. Granted I'm sure everyone with the Conquer Medal is a great player no doubt about that. In short most of us enjoy building rank and climbing the leaderboard but as most of the active players on this site know Rank does not mean everything.

SaviorShot wrote:I am not a fan of changing rules to get the Conquer knocked off ... that just looks shitty IMO. Just make the scoring system Flat Rate instead of Esc

I agree with that, but I think the fact that one person has held it for 5 years is an indication that the system needs to be overhauled. Something should be done. Not to knock off that one player, but to come up with a way to make it a better system going forward. Your idea for changing the scoring system to flat rate is interesting. However, would it promote even more farming because playing low ranks would yield as many points as playing a high rank player (but with less risk)?

There's also the idea of negating the point system based on maps.

For example - if someone wants to play 95% of their games on Das Schloss, that's fine. But at a certain point (maybe when your single map usage is over X%), you stop accruing points for wins on that map and keep losing them for losses until that % goes back under.

fishydance wrote:

SaviorShot wrote:I am not a fan of changing rules to get the Conquer knocked off ... that just looks shitty IMO. Just make the scoring system Flat Rate instead of Esc

I agree with that, but I think the fact that one person has held it for 5 years is an indication that the system needs to be overhauled. Something should be done. Not to knock off that one player, but to come up with a way to make it a better system going forward. Your idea for changing the scoring system to flat rate is interesting. However, would it promote even more farming because playing low ranks would yield as many points as playing a high rank player (but with less risk)?

Just think about most scoreboards for most games ... Its a grind to get #1 and its a bigger grind to hold #1.

Having some top tier players hop into some of the newer or less skilled players game would help them get better. I wonder if they could do a trail run for a month of flat rate scoring and just see how it goes? I bet people get more active with game counts and you will start seeing the power house players rising real quick up the score board. And when a player like Josko reaches #1 during that month people are gonna bitch and complain about that but it took Active game counts and win percentages to get there and I believe most people will be kool with it unless your a top 25 player right now and only play 5 games a month. This route does not punish the current top 25 tho since they will be able to grind like everyone else. I bet Flat Rate scoring month would have more games created/started than CC has had in a long time. Sounds like a good thing to me

Changing the scoring system is the most passive way to do what alot of people are wanting to do is all im saying ... the game count / medal requirements anit gonna cut it. Scoring System gets tweaked some way or things are going to stay the same.

I think we have to be careful that it doesn't become too specific and exclusive. Freemium players would certainly be excluded from being conquerer if many of the measures suggested were introduced.

I agree with having a crossmap medal compulsory to hold conquerer, but it doesn't need to be platinum imo. That already excludes most players at the top of the scoreboard. Even raising the requirement for gold to 100 maps (I'm not sure what it's at currently) and making gold a prerequisite would already make it harder. The game shouldn't be a total grind, it should be fun.

The only way to change the scoring system the way SaviourShot suggested would be to have a separate ladder system where you are matched against opponents a rank or two above or below you. That could be fun if it was completely random. You chose 1v1, poly or multiplayer and the map/settings/opponents are randomly chosen. It would be a true test of skill. Not sure how realistic something like that would be for CC though.

If it was made 20 points across the board, we would see more ranching, unfortunately.

Well Cross-Mapping is certainly underrated. It would be better that the Conqueror would be the one that has Cross-Mapped all 255 Maps multiple times. Thinking of 25 unique defeated opponents on every map?

So as of 28th of May 2022 we have a new Conqueror.

Well unfortunately it doesn't work that way. But maybe it would be an idea to award these kind of achievements in another way?

We could still make a Naruto Scoreboard. Since he's so different from the rest of us, he could have his own scoreboard! Just him and his list of foes.

Iron Maid wrote:Well Cross-Mapping is certainly underrated. It would be better that the Conqueror would be the one that has Cross-Mapped all 255 Maps multiple times. Thinking of 25 unique defeated opponents on every map?

So as of 28th of May 2022 we have a new Conqueror.

Well unfortunately it doesn't work that way. But maybe it would be an idea to award these kind of achievements in another way?

Keep iterating on this, I'm sure you'll find a loophole someday... oh wait... buy the site and give yourself winning points multiplier. Its just a little loophole... And you'll still be playing the same game as everyone else!

A simple challenger rule could do it, like the boxing world champ..he has to accept challengers, not put them all on the foe list.. so i agree with swimmer - exploiting the rules should never pay of. And the conqueror should be the best player, not the best bender.

Another idea would be to leave the current scoring in place but have an annual champion. The players who scores the most points in a year, with a minimum number of games required, gets to be "Conqueror of the Year" / World Champion. Not sure if ever suggested before, apologies if so.

You could always limit the points accrued per account by map. . .for instance, each map can only contribute 1000 points to any individual's score. Anything above that tally goes in the abyss.

Want more points? Play a different map.

TheSpaceCowboy wrote:You could always limit the points accrued per account by map. . .for instance, each map can only contribute 1000 points to any individual's score. Anything above that tally goes in the abyss.

Want more points? Play a different map.

Well that works nicely to block the current conqueror.
But how does that work for someone that play a lot of maps ?
Last time I checked I had more than 4k points won on KC1, Antartica, France2.1
But at the same time I'm smthg like -4k on Baltic Crusade because I mainly play 1vs1 speed on that one. ( same for classic and a few other I forgot).
Now that I've maxed up on my favorite map, I'd then become a cook because of the other maps I play.

Donelladan wrote:It's bad to make a rule against one player.

Yeah exactly. This sounds like a bunch of scoreboard nerds writing a rule specifically to topple the highest ranked scoreboard nerd. Wouldn't really do anything to clean up all the antics people get up to on most improved leaderboards etc that makes them feel pointless/meaningless to anyone who isn't committed to spending their life gaming the system.

bigtoughralf wrote:

Donelladan wrote:It's bad to make a rule against one player.

Yeah exactly. This sounds like a bunch of scoreboard nerds writing a rule specifically to topple the highest ranked scoreboard nerd. Wouldn't really do anything to clean up all the antics people get up to on most improved leaderboards etc that makes them feel pointless/meaningless to anyone who isn't committed to spending their life gaming the system.

I honestly couldn't give a toss about the scoreboard personally. Have no intention of ever making a run for the top. But I do agree with some less aggressive measures to prevent someone gaming the system, so to speak.

For the people who do care about it and would love to get their hands on a conquerer medal, I think it's a little disappointing that Naruto is doing this. Some people just like getting all of the achievements (medals) like playing a Steam game with achievements. Normal people make the effort to get the conquerer medal and then don't care about holding the position any more.

Josko is making a run currently just to knock Naruto off the top spot and end his reign the natural way. He can totally do it because he's a great player. Less than 700 points to go.