Conquer Club

Posted: **Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:41 pm**

Concise description:

Create a sub forum in GD for complaints about the dice and discussion of stats

Specifics/Details:

A dedicated sub forum for dice complaint threads and analysis of stats.
Call it Stats Discussion, or something similar, so people will know it isn't just for whining about dice.
Have a Q&A sticky about how the numbers are generated, how to find or interpret dice stats, etc.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

A dedicated sub-forum to the discussion of statistics would result in fewer similar dice complaint threads on the main GD board
Threads could be more easily grouped and thus more easily addressed.
It might actually generate some interesting discussions on how stats work across the game.
People with an interest in probabilities and statistics could have more specialised discussions.
Those discussions could feed back into strategy discussions and map-making.

Posted: **Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:37 pm**

Symmetry wrote:[*] Call it Stats Discussion, or something similar, so people will know it isn't just for whining about dice.

I don't think this will work the way you think it will work.

Posted: **Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:53 pm**

Metsfanmax wrote:I don't think this will work the way you think it will work.

It's always good to get mod feedback here, but that was kinda vague. Can I ask you to elaborate?

Posted: **Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:43 pm**

Symmetry wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:I don't think this will work the way you think it will work.

It's always good to get mod feedback here, but that was kinda vague. Can I ask you to elaborate?

You think that this will be the place where people can go to have constructive conversations. Everyone else will see it as a specific invitation to complain mindlessly about the dice.

Posted: **Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:02 pm**

Metsfanmax wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:I don't think this will work the way you think it will work.

It's always good to get mod feedback here, but that was kinda vague. Can I ask you to elaborate?

You think that this will be the place where people can go to have constructive conversations. Everyone else will see it as a specific invitation to complain mindlessly about the dice.

I'm not a big fan of beiing told what I think. But anyway..

That is not at all what you think I think- I see it as a sub-forum with a q&a for reference. I would hope there to be a stat element of analysis to result.

But the basic element would be a consolidated dice and stats forum.

Besides, people have never needed a specific invitation before. This would concentrate them, potentially codify them, and give a standard q&a.

Posted: **Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:03 pm**

No thanks, -1 here

Posted: **Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:32 pm**

IcePack wrote:No thanks, -1 here

Hmm, again, thanks for the mod contribution, why?

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:49 am**

Dice complaints are rarely in the correct place anyway.

Counter proposal, ban the author of this thread from making suggestions.

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:31 am**

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:Dice complaints are rarely in the correct place anyway.

Counter proposal, ban the author of this thread from making suggestions.

I see your thread ban and raise you a total forum ban.

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:39 am**

Symmetry wrote:
IcePack wrote:No thanks, -1 here

Hmm, again, thanks for the mod contribution, why?

That was my question, why? I don't really agree or see the benefits that you mention in your OP. So until I'm convinced otherwise or that it would somehow be beneficial, my vote would be no.

Also it would split up forum discussion even more, with low forum activity creating 10 specialized areas that get one post / week each looks dead, while one area that has 10 posts seems more active and encourages people to look at the area more often. So imo, any benefits must outweigh the negative impact of making the forum seem even more dead. Which in this case, I don't see it.

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:14 am**

IcePack wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
IcePack wrote:No thanks, -1 here

Hmm, again, thanks for the mod contribution, why?

That was my question, why? I don't really agree or see the benefits that you mention in your OP. So until I'm convinced otherwise or that it would somehow be beneficial, my vote would be no.

Also it would split up forum discussion even more, with low forum activity creating 10 specialized areas that get one post / week each looks dead, while one area that has 10 posts seems more active and encourages people to look at the area more often. So imo, any benefits must outweigh the negative impact of making the forum seem even more dead. Which in this case, I don't see it.

This nails it. Forum specialization should be assumed to be a bad thing until proven good. Especially when it comes to one of our anchor forums like GD.

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:44 pm**

Metsfanmax wrote:
IcePack wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
IcePack wrote:No thanks, -1 here

Hmm, again, thanks for the mod contribution, why?

That was my question, why? I don't really agree or see the benefits that you mention in your OP. So until I'm convinced otherwise or that it would somehow be beneficial, my vote would be no.

Also it would split up forum discussion even more, with low forum activity creating 10 specialized areas that get one post / week each looks dead, while one area that has 10 posts seems more active and encourages people to look at the area more often. So imo, any benefits must outweigh the negative impact of making the forum seem even more dead. Which in this case, I don't see it.

This nails it. Forum specialization should be assumed to be a bad thing until proven good. Especially when it comes to one of our anchor forums like GD.

Isn't that the exact opposite of your objection? You were worried that it would encourage people to post before. I'm sort of getting the impression that you're not treating this suggestion objectively, Mets.

That is dissapointing.

Personally, I see it as an opportunity for people who like to crunch numbers to post without being shot down.

Posted: **Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:11 pm**

Symmetry wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This nails it. Forum specialization should be assumed to be a bad thing until proven good. Especially when it comes to one of our anchor forums like GD.

Isn't that the exact opposite of your objection?

No. There are multiple reasons why your suggestion won't work.

You were worried that it would encourage people to post before.

No, I am worried that it will collect all of the dice bitching into a single place, which will amplify it. I don't think that many people will participate in your forum, but I think the majority of those who do will not want to have constructive conversation, and your forum will legitimize whatever screed they generate. Either way, the outcome is bad: people probably won't post much, and even if they do, it will contain useless content.

I'm sort of getting the impression that you're not treating this suggestion objectively, Mets.

I recognize that linking to a Phatscotty thread doesn't exactly help my case here, but I've made no secret of my objections to forum splitting before. (See also here.) I've been a mod on another large forum before I joined CC, and there I also saw the problems with these ideas. Often good in intention, but poor in outcome.

Posted: **Sun May 01, 2016 4:21 am**

Symmetry wrote:
Personally, I see it as an opportunity for people who like to crunch numbers to post without being shot down.

Can we create a WingCmdr Appreciation forum at the same time, as an opportunity for people who like to extoll my virtues without being shot down.

*insert skepta link here*

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2016 7:42 pm**

Metsfanmax wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This nails it. Forum specialization should be assumed to be a bad thing until proven good. Especially when it comes to one of our anchor forums like GD.

Isn't that the exact opposite of your objection?

No. There are multiple reasons why your suggestion won't work.

You were worried that it would encourage people to post before.

No, I am worried that it will collect all of the dice bitching into a single place, which will amplify it. I don't think that many people will participate in your forum, but I think the majority of those who do will not want to have constructive conversation, and your forum will legitimize whatever screed they generate. Either way, the outcome is bad: people probably won't post much, and even if they do, it will contain useless content.

I'm sort of getting the impression that you're not treating this suggestion objectively, Mets.

I recognize that linking to a Phatscotty thread doesn't exactly help my case here, but I've made no secret of my objections to forum splitting before. (See also here.) I've been a mod on another large forum before I joined CC, and there I also saw the problems with these ideas. Often good in intention, but poor in outcome.

I think it may have been your post expressing your wish to have me banned from the forums that made me think that you weren't totes objective, but hey...

I would say that, on the dice bitching side, it would mean a simple q&a could be put in place, and common complaints could be addressed together. I see that as freeing up GD from dice complaint threads.

Of course, I know you're focussing on that aspect, but I see potential for wider stats discussions.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2016 9:56 pm**

Symmetry wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This nails it. Forum specialization should be assumed to be a bad thing until proven good. Especially when it comes to one of our anchor forums like GD.

Isn't that the exact opposite of your objection?

No. There are multiple reasons why your suggestion won't work.

You were worried that it would encourage people to post before.

No, I am worried that it will collect all of the dice bitching into a single place, which will amplify it. I don't think that many people will participate in your forum, but I think the majority of those who do will not want to have constructive conversation, and your forum will legitimize whatever screed they generate. Either way, the outcome is bad: people probably won't post much, and even if they do, it will contain useless content.

I'm sort of getting the impression that you're not treating this suggestion objectively, Mets.

I recognize that linking to a Phatscotty thread doesn't exactly help my case here, but I've made no secret of my objections to forum splitting before. (See also here.) I've been a mod on another large forum before I joined CC, and there I also saw the problems with these ideas. Often good in intention, but poor in outcome.

I think it may have been your post expressing your wish to have me banned from the forums that made me think that you weren't totes objective, but hey...

I would say that, on the dice bitching side, it would mean a simple q&a could be put in place, and common complaints could be addressed together. I see that as freeing up GD from dice complaint threads.

Of course, I know you're focussing on that aspect, but I see potential for wider stats discussions.

And why can't those wider stats discussions take place in GD?
Why aren't they being discussed now?

i've seen a number of "dice discussions" in GD, but not enough to warrant their own place. Think of the different areas that have "sub forums", does the dice discussions in both quality, variety and quantity justified the additional sub forum area when compared with what the other areas have to offer? GD is really the place thats designed for exactly that, discussions about different aspects about Conquer Club, the game.

Posted: **Mon May 02, 2016 10:08 pm**

I don't think off topics has particularly suffered for having forum games as a sub forum.

I would say that the dice discussions are periodical in GD, and tend to result from extreme frustration (usually with a threat to leave the site, and GD regulars taking the piss).

A sub forum could head off those kind of threads, and get people to understand how the dice work before they get upset.

As for stats discussions, I would argue that a dedicated stat space would encourage stat discussions independent of the usual GD responses.

Just as Forum Games encouraged people to create and participate in forum games without wrecking or killing OT, people could have a creative space for stats.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2016 8:42 am**

Symmetry wrote:I don't think off topics has particularly suffered for having forum games as a sub forum.

I would say that the dice discussions are periodical in GD, and tend to result from extreme frustration (usually with a threat to leave the site, and GD regulars taking the piss).

A sub forum could head off those kind of threads, and get people to understand how the dice work before they get upset.

As for stats discussions, I would argue that a dedicated stat space would encourage stat discussions independent of the usual GD responses.

Just as Forum Games encouraged people to create and participate in forum games without wrecking or killing OT, people could have a creative space for stats.

as usual, you are going to continue to repeat yourself in the hopes that the same argument somehow will make more sense than the first 100 times you posted it. i think the responses to your idea were pretty specific and gave great examples. so, to further the discourse, why don't you quote/respond to those posts, instead of simply repeating yourself? the black jesus is trying to make you a better forum user...-Jésus noir

p.s.-what would your slogan be, for this part of the forum?

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2016 9:08 am**

Really, Owen- you're trolling me for the formatting of my posts now?

Still, I suppose you prove my point about GD regulars taking the piss.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2016 12:36 pm**

Symmetry wrote:Really, Owen- you're trolling me for the formatting of my posts now?

Still, I suppose you prove my point about GD regulars taking the piss.

no, i am not formatting your posts. i was trying to help you by explaining why your threads/ideas are routinely ignored. you do not answer questions that are valid, you just continue to post the same ideas over and over.

i came here, read the thread, it was interesting. it will never happen, but interesting. and the posts that explained why it was a "fail idea", were not answered, just ignored. like you do in all of your threads. instead of replying to those comments, those concepts, those valid detractors, you reposted your same idea. it's as if you think simply posting the same thing over and over will somehow change someone's mind.

good luck with this. will never happen. and that was far from "trolling"...-Bj

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2016 1:58 pm**

I've had a couple of my suggestions implemented, although one was rejected and then implemented separately. Also, remember when I mentioned being asked to be a mod?

You kind of flew off the handle, of course, but oddly enough I was asked to be a mod for the suggestions forum. Fun Sum fact right there.

Anyway, I've not accused you of formatting my posts, I'm saying your trolling me for the formatting of my posts.

I've addressed the questions as best I can, which ones do you feel have been ignored?

Posted: **Fri May 06, 2016 8:59 pm**

Hmm, nothing, Owen? What a shock.

I'd submit Owen's posts as evidence of the kind of trolling that could be avoided by a dedicated subforum.

Posted: **Fri May 06, 2016 10:05 pm**

now, go clean up the asshat opponent thread...

Posted: **Fri May 06, 2016 11:39 pm**

riskllama wrote:now, go clean up the asshat opponent thread...

Just ask him to actually substantiate the stuff he accuses people of. That tends to work.

I don't think that GD main forum is always the best place for discussion of some topics. Sometimes you get unofficial police doing their level best to shut down discussions.

Posted: **Sat May 07, 2016 5:19 am**

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Personally, I see it as an opportunity for people who like to crunch numbers to post without being shot down.

Can we create a WingCmdr Appreciation forum at the same time, as an opportunity for people who like to extoll my virtues without being shot down.

*insert skepta link here*

Symm, explain why this is a good/bad idea and we can go from there. Always best to look at extreme to understand concepts

Conquer Club

Sub forum for dice and stats discussion

Sub forum for dice and stats discussion

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