[GO] Unrated, Unranked, or No Points Games

[porkenbeans]

PorkenBeans I think you're right. No one has any real arguments of any substance, there is definately an underlying agenda against what would be a basically harmless addition to CC.
Do you know how we can get an official word on this?
My plan so far has been to try and keep the subject going and answer all counter-arguments and hope Lack or some other official would tell us what's what, but since people are just repeating arguments already put forward without referring to the previous answers or coming up with any real valid grievances against the idea I'm getting sick of repeating myself. Is there an alternative course?

I also am sick of repeating myself. I really love the game of ''RISK''. I started playing close to 40 years ago. Back when you had to spread a board, and stack your little wooden cubes. The game will become as timeless as chess, I have no doubt. All modesty aside, By all accounts, I was an expert some 30 yrs. back. My I.Q. is over 140, I consider myself one of the best players here. If not THE best. It would be great if the people like me that really love the game of ''RISK'' had a place to prove our skills. This site is a kids game, maskerading as such a place. But there may be hope coming, in the way of a Hasbro site. I am sure that the ''true'' owners of this game will be smart enough to keep the integrity in tack, I have no doubt that they will make it fair. And when you see a star ensignea next to someones name, you can be sure that, that person knows how to play this game pretty well. Unlike the leaderboard here.

[PepperJack]

PorkenBeans I think you're right. No one has any real arguments of any substance, there is definately an underlying agenda against what would be a basically harmless addition to CC.
Do you know how we can get an official word on this?
My plan so far has been to try and keep the subject going and answer all counter-arguments and hope Lack or some other official would tell us what's what, but since people are just repeating arguments already put forward without referring to the previous answers or coming up with any real valid grievances against the idea I'm getting sick of repeating myself. Is there an alternative course?

I also am sick of repeating myself. I really love the game of ''RISK''. I started playing close to 40 years ago. Back when you had to spread a board, and stack your little wooden cubes. The game will become as timeless as chess, I have no doubt. All modesty aside, By all accounts, I was an expert some 30 yrs. back. My I.Q. is over 140, I consider myself one of the best players here. If not THE best. It would be great if the people like me that really love the game of ''RISK'' had a place to prove our skills. This site is a kids game, maskerading as such a place. But there may be hope coming, in the way of a Hasbro site. I am sure that the ''true'' owners of this game will be smart enough to keep the integrity in tack, I have no doubt that they will make it fair. And when you see a star ensignea next to someones name, you can be sure that, that person knows how to play this game pretty well. Unlike the leaderboard here.

Scroll all the way to the bottom and then read it. Then think about the pulling of potential copyright infringing material. This site may very well be based on the game that you purport it to be based on (though it may also not be based on said game) but it makes no overtones that it is actually that game or attempts to measure one's skill at that game.

As has been discussed before, the scoreboard is workable, flawed, imperfect. That said, I highly doubt that some other company will come up with a scoreboard that adequately addresses all issues known to this one without creating new issues of its own.

Regardless of who is operating a website with this game or a game that this game may or may not be based on, what benefit does a point free area include? Really the burden of proof is on the OP and any in agreement. People can be ignorant of points and accomplish the same thing he suggests, so why implement this (waste of resources w/o good reason)and introduce further imbalance (players skilled beyond their rank if a game option)? Both you and walnut opine that you have yet to hear a sound argument on the matter. And I wholeheartedly agree. OH BURN!

masquerade

[walnutwatson]

Pepperjack, apologies for my slightly rabid reply before but I thought you were making assumptions about people you'd never met.
The thing is though you're wrong. I play on another similar site and if it wasn't for the amount of excellent maps on CC I would probably play on the other site exclusively. The other sites has a rating system but it is not shoved to the fore of the game like it is here with the pseudo-military ranking and medals and whatnot and on the other site I can honestly say I have never had a bad word said to me. People are willing to forgive mistakes and accept differing styles of play when points are not involved (or at least keep their self-righteousness to themselves). I know it may sound like I'm making this up but honestly I'm not.

[PepperJack]

Pepperjack, apologies for my slightly rabid reply before but I thought you were making assumptions about people you'd never met.
The thing is though you're wrong. I play on another similar site and if it wasn't for the amount of excellent maps on CC I would probably play on the other site exclusively. The other sites has a rating system but it is not shoved to the fore of the game like it is here with the pseudo-military ranking and medals and whatnot and on the other site I can honestly say I have never had a bad word said to me. People are willing to forgive mistakes and accept differing styles of play when points are not involved (or at least keep their self-righteousness to themselves). I know it may sound like I'm making this up but honestly I'm not.

I don't doubt your sincerity about other people being *shudder* nice. I must continue to disagree with any need for a point free zone though. Here's the body of a PM I just wrote pertaining to this thread (unedited)...

FWIW, I agree with the spirit of walnut's sentiments but there is no feasible way of implementing them. I accepted that reality and play on every map and every setting and learn as I go. Chances are the other people I'm playing are learning as well (especially on BETA maps) so I find there's no functional need for a practice arena. Everyone is always practicing and everyone's points are always up for grabs. So if the Conqueror and the anti-Conqueror want to expand their repertoire they are essentially on equal ground (aside from the fact the anti-Conqueror sucks).

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on people's dispositions. I can, but won't, throw out a few names that would likely be unsavory regardless of situation.

[porkenbeans]

PorkenBeans I think you're right. No one has any real arguments of any substance, there is definately an underlying agenda against what would be a basically harmless addition to CC.
Do you know how we can get an official word on this?
My plan so far has been to try and keep the subject going and answer all counter-arguments and hope Lack or some other official would tell us what's what, but since people are just repeating arguments already put forward without referring to the previous answers or coming up with any real valid grievances against the idea I'm getting sick of repeating myself. Is there an alternative course?

I also am sick of repeating myself. I really love the game of ''RISK''. I started playing close to 40 years ago. Back when you had to spread a board, and stack your little wooden cubes. The game will become as timeless as chess, I have no doubt. All modesty aside, By all accounts, I was an expert some 30 yrs. back. My I.Q. is over 140, I consider myself one of the best players here. If not THE best. It would be great if the people like me that really love the game of ''RISK'' had a place to prove our skills. This site is a kids game, maskerading as such a place. But there may be hope coming, in the way of a Hasbro site. I am sure that the ''true'' owners of this game will be smart enough to keep the integrity in tack, I have no doubt that they will make it fair. And when you see a star ensignea next to someones name, you can be sure that, that person knows how to play this game pretty well. Unlike the leaderboard here.

Scroll all the way to the bottom and then read it. Then think about the pulling of potential copyright infringing material. This site may very well be based on the game that you purport it to be based on (though it may also not be based on said game) but it makes no overtones that it is actually that game or attempts to measure one's skill at that game.

As has been discussed before, the scoreboard is workable, flawed, imperfect. That said, I highly doubt that some other company will come up with a scoreboard that adequately addresses all issues known to this one without creating new issues of its own.

Regardless of who is operating a website with this game or a game that this game may or may not be based on, what benefit does a point free area include? Really the burden of proof is on the OP and any in agreement. People can be ignorant of points and accomplish the same thing he suggests, so why implement this (waste of resources w/o good reason)and introduce further imbalance (players skilled beyond their rank if a game option)? Both you and walnut opine that you have yet to hear a sound argument on the matter. And I wholeheartedly agree. OH BURN!

masquerade

I agree with many of your posts, You seem to be a bright person, so, Lets not pretend here. Ok ? Lack and his crew did a great thing in creating CC. ''RISK'' is just about the most popular board game in the world. And they brought it online for us all to enjoy. 1/4 of a million people have been through these doors. But lets be honest here, Hasbro invented this game, no matter how many tweeks or new maps CC comes up with. Fact is fact, my friend. And to address, why this idea should be implemented. Well, I dont think it goes far enough. To fix whats wrong, I would make it nearly Impossible to cheat or farm. I would make it so that the only games that are scored, are the ones that CC auto matches. CC would only match players of the same rank. There would be no points to speak of, only a running tally of how many games a player is up or down for the month. At the end of every month the top 10% from each rank will receive a promotion to the next rank, and those 10% from the bottom of each rank will get demoted. The top rank will have a monthly turny with the winner receiving a seat in the yearly Grand final That would crown the next years Conquer. This site ''could'' become as popular as poker is right now. Even with televised events. Instead of trying to fight Hasbro, Lack should be paid for developing this online version of the game. Just imagine if Lack had the Hasbro name and money on this baby. He could be The C.E.O of something really big. The only thing that would have to certainly change is the scoring and ranking system. to something like what I describe. This kid version of, shark eating their young, will not fly. There are millions of people through out the world that love ''RISK''. They would want it to be about who is the best ''RISK'' player. ...NOT this.

[walnutwatson]

Jeez, just watching some hellish stuff on the news and this thread all seems a bit trivial in comparison. Regardless of that my interest in an argument will always wane after a while so I'm giving up. Pepperjack you've put some decent arguments forward but I feel like we're a pair of Columbo's with his wonky eye both trying to straighten a tilted picture frame, whatever that means. Nice one Porkenbeans as well, you may have a scary avatar but what you're saying makes more sense to me than what's going on at the moment.
Anyhow I'm off to start a thread looking for good book recomendations tomorrow if either of you read much and want to join in.
Night.

[porkenbeans]

Jeez, just watching some hellish stuff on the news and this thread all seems a bit trivial in comparison. Regardless of that my interest in an argument will always wane after a while so I'm giving up. Pepperjack you've put some decent arguments forward but I feel like we're a pair of Columbo's with his wonky eye both trying to straighten a tilted picture frame, whatever that means. Nice one Porkenbeans as well, you may have a scary avatar but what you're saying makes more sense to me than what's going on at the moment.
Anyhow I'm off to start a thread looking for good book recomendations tomorrow if either of you read much and want to join in.
Night.

Thanx for your comment on my avi. Scary is just what I was going for when I created it for my poker site. HAHAHA. I turned it into an animation for here.

[singcricketsing]

Option for unrated games:

• add an option when creating a game to specify whether the game transfers points at the end of the game.

Specifics:

• This option would be similar to one featured in some Yahoo! games.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• allowing experienced players to teach recruits without farming/ risking their points
• letting players play "for fun" and to improve strategy
• remove suspicion from games involving friends IRL of different skill levels (for instance, I want to teach one of my friends to play, which would involve repetitive games with the same two players without being accused of multi) also to remove farming/ risking points between two radically different ranks

What do you say? All feedback welcome.

[The Neon Peon]

Suggested many times...
Rejected many times...

If you don't want to play for points in a game, stop caring about your rank.

[Stephan Wayne]

what a waste of time rating are not that important

[The Neon Peon]

what a waste of time rating are not that important

Congratulations on spamming random threads without reading them to get your post count up. This is the type of thing that makes people want to go out and read the forums: random things said in bad grammar, and with no clue whatsoever to read even a few short sentences to know what is going on.

[owenshooter]

suggested and rejected more than a few times... if you don't want to lose points, get a board game, a few friends, and have some fun together...-0

[Kotaro]

Specifics:

• This option would be similar to one featured in some Yahoo! games.

That alone makes it fail. However, if you'd like the real reason, use the advanced search button at the top. You'll find this has been suggested many times, and rejected just as many. Not going to happen

[The Neon Peon]

However, if you'd like the real reason, use the advanced search button at the top. You'll find this has been suggested many times, and rejected just as many. Not going to happen

Firstly, he has only 8 posts, and I doubt that advanced searches before making a suggestion is an inherited trait.
Secondly, well done on repeating what both me and owen have said.

[owenshooter]

However, if you'd like the real reason, use the advanced search button at the top. You'll find this has been suggested many times, and rejected just as many. Not going to happen

Firstly, he has only 8 posts, and I doubt that advanced searches before making a suggestion is an inherited trait. Secondly, well done on repeating what both me and Neon have said...-6cd

[Kotaro]

I try to ignore you both semi-constantly, so of course I'd repeat.

[walnutwatson]

You'll find there is a certain clique on this site to whom points and rankings mean a great deal, no idea why, they just do.
Every time this topic has been brought up it has been shot down post-haste by said clique.
I've still not heard a decent argument against this suggestion but the vocal minority seem determined to prevent anyone from playing without points being involved.
I've found that developing a sort of online selective hearing disability to ignore the ranking and points is the only way to deal with this.

[Kotaro]

There's a number of good reasons, and it has nothing to do with points/rank. Do your research.

[Megadeth666]

Yes ,this subject has been talked about and rejected plenty of times
Rejected by Mods and Farmers only...but how bout the other 98% that keep bringing it up, and think at least 1 just One, practice game unrated be a good idea?
I have referred at least 8 people, and not really knowing the game, join and lose right away and never come back (just like a lot of new recruits do playing farmers such as I am not allowed to mention their names)!
So I don't seem what the big deal would be, to have a new recruit play 1 unrated game with or without a friend just to get the hang of it?

[FarangDemon]

PorkenBeans I think you're right. No one has any real arguments of any substance, there is definately an underlying agenda against what would be a basically harmless addition to CC.
Do you know how we can get an official word on this?
My plan so far has been to try and keep the subject going and answer all counter-arguments and hope Lack or some other official would tell us what's what, but since people are just repeating arguments already put forward without referring to the previous answers or coming up with any real valid grievances against the idea I'm getting sick of repeating myself. Is there an alternative course?

I also am sick of repeating myself. I really love the game of ''RISK''. I started playing close to 40 years ago. Back when you had to spread a board, and stack your little wooden cubes. The game will become as timeless as chess, I have no doubt. All modesty aside, By all accounts, I was an expert some 30 yrs. back. My I.Q. is over 140, I consider myself one of the best players here. If not THE best. It would be great if the people like me that really love the game of ''RISK'' had a place to prove our skills. This site is a kids game, maskerading as such a place. But there may be hope coming, in the way of a Hasbro site. I am sure that the ''true'' owners of this game will be smart enough to keep the integrity in tack, I have no doubt that they will make it fair. And when you see a star ensignea next to someones name, you can be sure that, that person knows how to play this game pretty well. Unlike the leaderboard here.

Exactly. I'd definitely join the Hasbro site if they have cool maps and if they have a system where you don't have to farm to get to the top and you have to play your peers to stay at the top. Like if they follow a suggestion like this one that can eliminate farming altogether and make CC more competitive without finger pointing, rule changes or stripping anyone of their points: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=70978.

[walnutwatson]

There's a number of good reasons, and it has nothing to do with points/rank. Do your research.

I've had a thread on this subject that I posted on for about a month and a half, and I've read plenty of others. Yes there are a good number of reasons but almost all of those reasons are from one point of view and disregard every other point of view. For example one argument that's been put forward over and over is that people playing unranked games will get better without it being reflected in their rank, this ignores the fact that lots of people enjoy the game without paying the slightest attention to rank. There are a lot of people who support unranked games but they are just ignored it seems.

[Lhuth]

Wow neon peon has a right sandy vagina in this thread.

I don't actually think it's an awful suggestion. If it was implemented solely for use where people have been banned from playing together, or people on same connections etc, to insure there was no cheating happening. It'd need to be an automated kinda thing, so that these people can play together but never for points, so cannot cheat.

However, as an option for gameplay it's irelevant cos, as said, most people don't care about their rank/points. Play for fun.

[porkenbeans]

Concise description:

• My suggestion for a ranking system with INTEGRITY.

Specifics:

• Site would have "non-sanctioned" games. These are games that in no way effect your rank.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• This will allow for players to play with friends and family in a pleasant atmosphere free of any point collecting.

Specifics:

• Site would have "sanctioned" games. These games are used to determine your rank and position on the leaderboard.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• This will give integrity to the ranking system.

Specifics:

• Opponents in all sanctioned games are "auto-matched".

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• Will make cheating and farming, nonexistent.

Specifics:

• Only players of the same rank are matched in sanctioned games. but you can choose players of different rank for partners. The highest rank from each team will be matched to the same rank

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• This will allow players to compete against those of the same skill level.

Specifics:

• There are no points to collect. Only a running tally of the players positive or negative games won for the week. The top 20% from each rank level will receive a promotion in rank. And the bottom 20% from each rank level will receive a demotion in rank at the end of every week.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• This will allow players to rise to their true skill level. No more collecting points.

Specifics:

• The top 20% of the top bracket are entered into the weekly showdown turny. The winner of the showdown receives a seat in the annual Turny of Champions, which will crown the next years Grand Conqueror.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

This will allow Everyone an equal chance to show what they "got"", or dont got". It will allow those of us that are in the majority to rescue our game from the juvenile, farming, and non-skilled, wannabee cheaters.

[Ditocoaf]

It's been suggested before; you should have revived one of the old threads. (I support this, btw).

Also,

you should really change the title. o/

[porkenbeans]

It's been suggested before; you should have revived one of the old threads. (I support this, btw).

Also,

you should really change the title. o/

Yes, I have suggested it in a reply to someones thread, But I thought that it needed a thread and poll of its own. And if someone has indeed already suggested this system, I would ask that you supply me with the link, so I can salute the genius in person.