Forced to take cards.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Concise description: This has been a recent discussion within the past few months that I feel the community is torn apart. I'm an advocate for forcing to take cards if a territory is taken, rather than just "waiting" for your turn to end and not draw.
Here's the issue for those unaware:
In Zombie and Nuclear settings, you can attack and move during your turn, however, you can opt to wait out the timer and thus, not draw a card, eliminating the potential threat of nuking or zombifying your stack/bonus/territories. I'm aware some players view this as a "legitimate strategy", however, I feel like what was initially intended as a punishment, is now being used for advantageous purposes. Not a bug or glitch, but taking advantage of programming that was intended to be used for other settings before Nuclear and Zombie was introduced. I'm not going to bother listing the pro's and con's of such a thing, because it's inherently incorrect to begin with, in my opinion.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• Forced to play settings as intended.

To continue the debate further with Icepack, I'm bringing the discussion here via quote, other's can chime in as well without derailing the other topic.

Or adds another layer of strategy, and doesn't need to be "fixed".

Disagree completely. When do you draw the line for what is and isn't strategy over taking advantage of programming?

Say if you and me and Duk were playing a game together, in person, with nuke settings, and I make a move and I say; "Welp, I'll be back in about an hour, you guys go ahead and talk and what not. Don't give me a card though." Lol?

It definitely falls under "Cheap Tactics". There's no reason why they shouldn't draw a card if they take a territory regardless of time spent during a turn.

Well to start how about when the programmer says it wasn't a bug?

Great story about sitting around a table, but when we played around a table (Risk or otherwise) if someone forgot to draw a card it was tough luck. So I don't equate it to someone walking away, I equate it to someone remembering later going oh crap I was supposed to card and didn't, and everyone around the table telling them they were stupid for forgetting and they aren't getting one now.

Show me the quote and time stamp of when that programmer had said that it wasn't a bug and that it is indeed intended AFTER Nuclear and Zombie was introduced. I definitely would like to ask that same programmer A. Why include this for the aforementioned settings? and B. Do you feel this needs to change, why or why not? Even then, I'm not arguing if this was a bug or glitch. I'm arguing the intended purpose behind it is now being abused in the settings mentioned.

That's also a great story if someone forgot to draw card. Were you playing Zombie and Nuclear? Or was it Escalating/Flat rate when it would clearly hurt more not/forget to draw? In the former, I'd be pretty pissed if he just didn't draw a card, right in front of me. In the latter, yeah, stupidity.

[IcePack]

You do realize they could benefit from drawing a card even if it's zombie / nuclear right? It's not always a negative. It's not like they're avoiding a penalty 100% of the time. It's strategy.

[Mad777]

Not much to add here to me, but being a old timer and with what this site offer in regards of different settings, if you decide to engage yourself into a Nuke and/or Zombie then you should expect receiving a card if you decide to take a territory, if you don't wan't to receive a card then you should join a "No Spoils" game.

The only strategy I would see is stack and reduce an opponent territ but not taking it if you don't want a card...this site has already too much way to go for using/abusing the system (don't want to talk about the scoreboard...but this is one area that I meant). I know by saying this I may have tons of player that are against my point of view and the reason is probably because they don't want to use the setting the way it has been design, just going around to get the point from winning using a strategy that has no glory.

Using the clock to make any strategy shouldn't be part of the way of playing, settings are various and are here to be use as intented...you take a territory then you should get a card...bottom line, No Spoils speak by itself saying you won't get a card, so why letting other settings using the same outcome?

...Again this is my own opinion, and because points are not my main focus (going up and down) it's probably why my rank is not going too high, I'm not using this kind of strategy since I feel it's not right, if I take a territ playing any game that has settings other than "No Spoils" then I deserve a card, period.

Have fun guy

[IcePack]

Just to be clear mad, I agree with you and that's also how I personally play.
I'm seperate for my personal opinion and feelings about skipping cards to discuss what should be, not what I personally want / do.

[DirtyDishSoap]

You do realize they could benefit from drawing a card even if it's zombie / nuclear right? It's not always a negative. It's not like they're avoiding a penalty 100% of the time. It's strategy.

Sure, it could be a number of things. Waiting for a player to move a stack onto a territory whilst advancing yourself for example.
Again, I'm not going to argue the pro's or con's of it because it's inherently taking advantage of a system that is meant to punish a player for missing/taking too long of a turn, not give him a clear advantage over players such as you or I who are simply going to play into that.

@Mad
Couldn't have said it better myself.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Really? No one at all thinks this is an issue outside of me, Duk and Mad?

I don't even play nuke/zombie, but I can see a problem when there is one. Why on Earth would a system that intends to punish a player for missing/taking too long a turn give a clear advantage, in this case, by not forcing them to draw a nth card?

There isn't strategy behind it, despite the argument. Let me give everyone another example here. Let's say I play the very 1st Ghost Recon game. There's a very well known glitch, that if you lie prone in a crater/ditch/hump, only your gun will appear, and players would be unable to shoot back at you. It doesn't get people banned for it, but players would be incredibly pissed if you did this. Does that make sense? It's a cheap "tactic", if you can call it that.

Bottom line, and echoing Mad here, If you take x territory, you draw a card, regardless of time spent during that turn.

[Mad777]

....you got my answer/opinion in this, will see what they will do with it...

[MudPuppy]

It's clear there are instances in most spoils games where taking a card can be favorable and unfavorable. It basically comes down to whether the practice of timing out to avoid taking a card should be considered an acceptable strategy or a "cheap tactic" loophole that needs to be closed. I fall in the latter camp and feel it would benefit the CC community if the loophole were closed

In fact, closing the time-out loophole would make the game more strategic as players would have to weigh the benefits of taking regions against any potential adverse affects of receiving a card... The loophole takes that analysis away and allows players who don't have a problem making use of the loophole to have it both ways.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Going to poll it up. Hopefully it sparks a bit more conversation to a problem that should be fixed.

[Mad777]

...

In fact, closing the time-out loophole would make the game more strategic as players would have to weigh the benefits of taking regions against any potential adverse affects of receiving a card... The loophole takes that analysis away and allows players who don't have a problem making use of the loophole to have it both ways.

Exactly...

[iAmCaffeine]

Close the loophole.