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Wales [Quenched]

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Wales [Quenched]

Postby MrBenn on Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:32 am

Map Title: Wales
Mapmaker: MrBenn
Territory Count: 48 (32 starting)
Bonuses: 5 Regions & 16 Triples
Gameplay: Almost standard, except two/three armies occupy each Shire area.
Size: Large 740px × 760px; Small 565px × 580px

Foundry Stamps:
ImageImageImageImage Image

Version 23/24 - 11 February 2009
Image
Click image to enlarge.
image


Version 23 - 3rd February 2009
Small Map
Large Map
XML: http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/9/2 ... XML_03.xml

Version 22 - 9th January 2009

Version 21 - 7th January 2009
Small Map
Large Map
    I have increased the colour saturation of the blobs (official name) on the bonus legend.
    The bonus values for the regions have been updated - the total bonus will include +1 for each shire
    Hopefully the legend text is now fully comprehensible... the settlement icon has been moved into the first paragraph of instruction and looks a lot more coherent

Version 20 - 29th December 2008
Small Map
Large Map
    I've tweaked some of the background effects - turned them down slightly more on the small map than the large.
    On the small map, the labels on the Isle of Anglesey have been moved/shrunk a bit to make it more obvious where the army numbers go
    The Settlement image has reappeared on the legend.

Version 19 - 28th December 2008
Small Map
Large Map
    The biggest change is that of the instructive text - hopefully it is now much clearer how bonuses/attacks work
    I have also moved the mountain range between green/blue to make the Northern region slightly harder to hold - this is the only thing about the gameplay that bugged me.
    Since the addition of the settlements, I have increased the map sizes, and ensured that both versions now fit within the size restrictions.

Version 18 - 12th December 2008
Large Map
    I've added a small space between the two labels in each Shire to aid clarity

Version 17 - 10th December 2008
Large Map
    The map has been cropped a lot more tightly to the Welsh coastline, making the map slightly shorter.
    The region bonuses have been moved to the side, and the wording of the explanatory text has been tweaked again.
    I've shifted my signature slightly, and the compass has been moved and shrunk in order to accommodate the relocated legend.
    I've added in some more mountains between Herefordshire and Shropshire to tidy up the border there, which looked a little odd with the tiny bit of neither county betwixt the two.
    The typeface I'm using doesn't have an extended character set, so accented characters will be harder to add than I thought.
    Aberffraw and Mon will probably remain the way they are, in order to make the labels best fit the space of the island.
    In addition to these significant amendments, there have been a number of tweaks to shades of things, too numerous and petty to mention.

Version 16 - 30th November 2008
Large Map
    This image is at the size I've previously been using as my large, but since I've added the settlements, I'm contemplating using this size as the small...
    I have tweaked some of the wording of the explanatory text, and made it slightly larger.
    The settlements will all start with 3 neutrals, and can only be attacked by the clans in the same shire...I'm considering making it so they can't attack them back...
    Points for discussion - relative merits of 3 territories per shire, and whether the settlements should be able to attack?

Version 15 - 15th November 2008
Large Map
    Here's an attempt at a version with the altered gameplay, as recently suggested. I really like the way it works, and it does give additional options to make a better game...

    I have switched to the Welsh labels as suggested by Genghis Khant, and have used the County towns as the settlements. I've been a bit inconsistent with the use of English/Welsh names for the settlements, so will amend them at some point in the future - but at least they're more-or-less in the right place geographically!

    My working image is bigger than the small and large images, so the settlement circles will need to be redrawn at the correct size in a future update. It's worth noting here that the settlements will all start neutral, which will negate the need for complex start-positions.

Version 14 - 8th November 2008
Small Map
Large Map
    All I've done is make the Cardiganshire / Montgomeryshire /Merioneth border a bit clearer, and moved some neutrals around.
    I had been contemplating starting one of Anglesey neutral anyway - and it has the added bonus of having an equal distribution of players per region.

    Second thing... bonuses...
    I haven't updated the region bonuses since I've added in the mountains... I've run the numbers in to one of the bonus spreadsheets... (clicky) (The Shire Pairs are taken into consideration in column M)
    I think some of the figures are a bit out, as the region size isn't that much of a factor...
    Would it be acceptable to set the region bonus at double the number of Shires? ie North+5; SWest+3; Midlands+3;South+2; English+3? That make North a bit too high.... hmmm....
    Any and all thoughts welcome ;-)

Version 13 - 7th November 2008
Large Map
    Right... here is my first attempt at starting positions... rather than listing them, I've opted to display them using army placement, which is more visually impactive than an XML extract...

    In 2 player games, each player will get a complete set of one colour. 6 territories from the unassigned colour will be shared between the two players, with the remaining territories starting neutral. It is possible for each player to receive a maximum of 3 shire pairs from the drop, but nobody will receive a bonus region from the drop. I think I've caluclated that there is 26.5% of dropping at least one shire pair, 7.5% of getting at least 2, and 3.75% of getting 3 pairs... dramatically lower than the list of probabilities I posted above. (I'm deliberately not posting my working out because I expect I've got it hopefully wrong)

    In 3 player games, the armies will be divided up so that each player will get a complete set of one colour. Nobody will start with a shire pair or a region bonus.

    4+ player games will be distributed totally randomly, and the starting positions will not be taken into consideration.

Version 12 - 23rd October 2008
Small Map
Large Map
    I've added some grunge to the rest of the text on the map
    The region names on the English bonus blob been switched so that the Welsh translation is on the top
    The bonus blobs for Midlands and South-West have been redone so they look more like the regions on the map.

Version 11 - 22nd October 2008
Small Map
Large Map
    The biggest change is the text - I've gone for Oaktowns poetry, which was marginally superior to mine, although I did have to correct some of the American spellings (neighbor) :roll:
    I've shifted the colours where the mountains meet... Each mountain is now one colour or the other - I tried an attempt with no colour on them, but it just looked wrong, This version looks tidier than the previous one, which is what I was hoping to achieve.
    The text has been mildly grunged, and I've changed the colour to a very dark brown instead of black.

    To reiterate how the gameplay is supposed to work; each Shire has two armies. Hold both armies in a Shire for +1. The South-West (red) has 3 Shires, or 6 armies. If you hold this region, you will get (3 x +1) for each Shire, and (1 x +3) for holding the region.

Version 10 - 22nd Sept 2008
Small Map
Large Map
    The burn mark has been the subject of a lot of angst, and has accordingly made a swift departure.
    The dark blue blob behind "Gogledd North 3" has been made a bit lighter. It still looks blue enough, but the text should be more visible now (at least that's the hope). I also made the green blob a bit more green.
    I have added a Shire suffix to some territory names to help make the interpretation of the poetry a little easier...

Version 9 - 21st Sept 2008
Small Map
Large Map
    I have taken out the 'fold' across the middle as I wasn't really that keen on it.
    The colours have been swapped around, and I've made the band of colour thicker to make it easier to distinguish. I think the colours are better placed now, but am tempted to rethink the thickness...
    The large image has been made a bit smaller (even if only to appease RJ!)
    I've also added a burn-mark. The hole is very slightly off-white, to match the colour of the background on the play-a-game screen.
    I have changed the shapes of the region bonuses, picking out a shape from the corresponding region area instead of the previous blobs!

    To clarify some of the gameplay issues, there are two territories (clans) in each geographical area(Shire). You get a +1 bonus for holding both territories/clans in each area/shire. The Shires are grouped into regions, which will yield an additional bonus. I have attempted to explain this through the medium of poetry, so some of the finesse may be lost?? In any case, the gameplay will be standard (ie no bombards/one-ways etc), except for the multiple armies per territory...

Version 8
    It's been a little while, but here is my first attempt at a grunged-up version...
    I've taken a picture of some scrumpled of paper and added that to the background as a feint texture
    There is a bit of 'weathering' to the edges, but I've also sprinkled some over the map at random ;-)
    I'm not wholly convinced by the fold I've put across the middle, but I'll see what others think.
    After much playing around, I have learnt a bit about custom brushes and drawn some mountains I am happy with. I'm using PS6, which doesn't have a 'jitter' feature, but I think they look good regardless.

    I haven't swapped the colours around as I flattened the colours layer, and will need to see if I can get an untangled copy from an early version #-o

Version 7
    Unpublished attempts at trying to draw mountains...

Version 6
Large and Small Images
Large Map
Small Map

    I've done a little tweaking, and put together a slightly smaller large image, and a smaller small image...
    The sea now has a slight edge to it - there was a suggestion to have a blue tinge, but it didn't look right. I've opted for a slightly murky sea, which seems to fit the style of the map!
    I've added the Shire suffix to some of the English territory names where they'll fit, which will hopefully make it slightly more obvious what the poem means when it talks about shires :?:
    There are now working small/large images - Gameplay discussion is desperately needed ;-)

Version 5
    Unpublished attempts at trying to do something fancy with the sea...

Version 4 (22/08/2008)
    I've added in some pale contour lines to help indicate the reason for the wonky compass. The compass has been faded into the background a bit more so it doesn't jump out so much. I've tried to smooth the dragon outline a little too...
    I've updated the 'poetic' text to include the attack rule - how is it for clarity?
    The overlapping army numbers have been nudged around a bit, and I've tweaked a border :-$
    On the subject of border-tweaking, I've amended the Flint border to get rid of the exclave :shock: - purely to assist gameplay.
    I've run the region bonusses through a calculator and taken off the amount you'd get for holding the Shire pairs. The English area should really be a +5, but I've upped it to a 6 to add to the confusion in foggy games ;-)
    Oh, I've also adjusted the Cardigan/Montgomery/Merioneth border to make it clearer.

Version 3
    I've added the Dragon image, and I've drawn in a compass to match.
    The font has been updated to one that looks suitably mappy... I like it ;-)
    The slightly patchy region fills are gone, to be replaced with the edge-effect.
    I've added the region names to the bottom of the map, ready to be populated with the region bonuses when they're decided
    I've come up with some (cough) poetry (cough), and spent a lot of time playing around with online Welsh translators... If anybody here speaks Welsh, please let me know if it reads OK!

Version 2
    Here's a slightly more 'mappy' version - I've added on some army numbers to give a feel for how the gameplay will work... I thought it would make sense to have a +1 bonus for each county/shire, so have added that too...

Version 1
    Welsh geography is a bit messed up, and there have been several boundary changes to their counties over the past few years, and it looks probable that the administrative areas will continue to be shuffled around indefinitely. There are currently 8 administrative counties/regions in Wales, which is not enough for a CC map (unless you're a Doodle Assassin fan). So instead of using current boundaries, I have opted to use the 13 historic counties of Wales - these are the most consistently defined areas, and apparently have a 'resonance with which Welsh people can identify' (I read that somewhere!). To bump the territory count up, I've included the three English counties on the Wales/England border, some of which have bits which are almost Welsh in any case....

    So, 16 counties in total - the bare minimum required for a map. Personally, I think that 16 terrs is still too small, so I had the idea to have two 'territories' per county based on the English/Welsh names for the counties, which makes 32 terrs, and an ideal sized map.
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Last edited by MrBenn on Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:28 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Wales

Postby MrBenn on Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:33 am

There are maps of the British Isles, Scotland and Ireland already in play, and I've got around to thinking, "why not have maps of England and Wales too?" If these 2 are done, then there will be a British version of WM's USA 6-pack suitable for tournaments etc.

I thought I'd start off with the smaller of the two, and while my internet connection was down the other week, I thought I'd have a go at a Wales map.... and here is my first VERY ROUGH draft:
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Welsh geography is a bit messed up, and there have been several boundary changes to their counties over the past few years, and it looks probable that the administrative areas will continue to be shuffled around indefinitely. There are currently 8 administrative counties/regions in Wales, which is not enough for a CC map (unless you're a Doodle Assassin fan). So instead of using current boundaries, I have opted to use the 13 historic counties of Wales - these are the most consistently defined areas, and apparently have a 'resonance with which Welsh people can identify' (I read that somewhere!). To bump the territory count up, I've included the three English counties on the Wales/England border, some of which have bits which are almost Welsh in any case....

So, 16 counties in total - the bare minimum required for a map. Personally, I think that 16 terrs is still too small, so I had the idea to have two 'territories' per county based on the English/Welsh names for the counties, which makes 32 terrs, and an ideal sized map.
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Re: Wales

Postby cairnswk on Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:09 am

good idea from me
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Re: Wales

Postby WidowMakers on Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:10 am

sounds great. Looking forward to it.

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Re: Wales

Postby MrBenn on Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:16 am

Here's a slightly more 'mappy' version - I've added on some army numbers to give a feel for how the gameplay will work... I thought it would make sense to have a +1 bonus for each county/shire, so have added that too...
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edited to put up a smaller sized file
Last edited by MrBenn on Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wales

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:46 am

Your maps kill my dial-up, so I can only view the tops of them before they turn into red Xs. But from what I see they look great!

:P

:lol: Sorry, that's about all I can do for you!
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Re: Wales

Postby multiplayertim on Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:57 am

MrBenn wrote:There are maps of the British Isles, Scotland and Ireland already in play, and I've got around to thinking, "why not have maps of England and Wales too?" If these 2 are done, then there will be a British version of WM's USA 6-pack suitable for tournaments etc.


Ireland is not part of Britian the term british isles bothers me enough but going as far to call Ireland British is too far
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Re: Wales

Postby sam_levi_11 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:56 am

yay a wales map!
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Re: Wales

Postby RjBeals on Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:45 am

Not sure I understand how this will work? Both armies share the same space (shire)? Or are you going to add more borders dividing the territories you show in your map? Interesting idea. Your colors look good and the map looks nice. You need to adjust your borders up north (yellow) as there are some spaces without color. also in the green.

I'm not too familiar with Wales. Whats the geography like? whats the [dragon] mean? Are you going to add a picture of a dragon?
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Re: Wales

Postby whitestazn88 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:02 am

so there are 2 territs in each county?
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Re: Wales

Postby MrBenn on Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:48 am

RjBeals wrote:Not sure I understand how this will work? Both armies share the same space (shire)? Or are you going to add more borders dividing the territories you show in your map? Interesting idea.

whitestazn88 wrote:so there are 2 territs in each county?

At the moment, I'm thinking that there will be two territories in each county/shire, without any further sub-divisions...
This creates a relatively high number of borders, and as a side-effect means that Anglesey will not be a dead end.
It will also create unique gameplay; possibly making it quite a difficult 32 territory map??

RjBeals wrote:Your colors look good and the map looks nice. You need to adjust your borders up north (yellow) as there are some spaces without color. also in the green.

Good spot on the colour-fills... I'm going to re-do the region borders - I'm going to go for a strip of colour around the edge rather than a solid fill...

RjBeals wrote:I'm not too familiar with Wales. Whats the geography like? whats the [dragon] mean? Are you going to add a picture of a dragon?

By geography, I'm assuming you mean mountains etc? There are mountains all over the place in Wales, particularly in North Wales and in the Brecons (Brecknockshire).
The dragon will be a version of the dragon from the Welsh flag... you'll see it on the next update. If my mythology serves me right, I think it's actually the Pendragon of King Arthur (and the knights of the Round Table) - although I'm probably mistaken!
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Re: Wales

Postby MrBenn on Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:49 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:Your maps kill my dial-up, so I can only view the tops of them before they turn into red Xs. But from what I see they look great!

:P

:lol: Sorry, that's about all I can do for you!

#-o
I just checked the size of the files... I didn't realise they were so big :oops:
I'm going to save them as JPG rather than PNG and edit the links so that you can see what's going on... ;-)
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Re: Wales

Postby foregone on Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:48 pm

Looks great. You'll just have to simplify the exact mechanics for us simple folk. Are you gonna be drawing boundary lines between the shires as they are or will you be leaving it as is with the shires attacking each other as well as any of the current boundaries being able to attack either piece of the shire?
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Re: Wales

Postby MrBenn on Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:52 pm

Here's another update...
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I've added the Dragon image, and I've drawn in a compass to match.
The font has been updated to one that looks suitably mappy... I like it ;-)
The slightly patchy region fills are gone, to be replaced with the edge-effect.
I've added the region names to the bottom of the map, ready to be populated with the region bonusses when they're decided
I've come up with some (cough) poetry (cough), and spent a lot of time playing around with online Welsh translators... If anybody here speaks Welsh, please let me know if it reads OK!

Areas for discussion
The '2 territories per shire' thing
foregone wrote:Looks great. You'll just have to simplify the exact mechanics for us simple folk. Are you gonna be drawing boundary lines between the shires as they are or will you be leaving it as is with the shires attacking each other as well as any of the current boundaries being able to attack either piece of the shire?

I think the idea has some merit, but is probably going to confuse people initially. I'm contemplating adding in attack lines, but fear this may over-complicate things??
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Re: Wales v3

Postby ZeakCytho on Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:48 pm

Why are there two territories per shire? Is that just to double the size of the map? Or is there something historical behind it?

Edit: Forgot to mention that the graphics look very nice :)
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Re: Wales v3

Postby MrBenn on Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:06 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:Why are there two territories per shire? Is that just to double the size of the map? Or is there something historical behind it?

Edit: Forgot to mention that the graphics look very nice :)

It's mainly to create a playable number of territories, although it's partly a play on the dual-languages - all road signs are in Welsh/English...
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Re: Wales v3

Postby whitestazn88 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:32 pm

sweet image... now we know whats up
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Re: Wales v3

Postby MrBenn on Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:41 pm

whitestazn88 wrote:sweet image... now we know whats up

Thanks ;-)
I rotated the map ever so slightly to get a better fit, but not too much to make it look overtly wonky...
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Re: Wales v3

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:57 pm

Thanks for letting me view the map!

I like it, it's a nice twist on a classic map too. The duel territories is a neat-o idea. Usually I end up comenting on maps that I never intendt to play, but this one I will.
The compass doesn't appear to be pointing staight up. Pointing more to true North, aye?

What's the reason that Flint doesn't have any armies? No room? or...
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Re: Wales v3

Postby MrBenn on Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:01 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:a)The compass doesn't appear to be pointing staight up. Pointing more to true North, aye?
b)What's the reason that Flint doesn't have any armies? No room? or...

a) I've rotated the map a bit to get a better fit.
b) The small bit labelled Flint, is an exclave of 'Sir y Fflint'/Flint, which does have army numbers in it... I'll have to think of something to solve this anomoly... In the Europe map, I just tweaked the borders to get rid of the exclaves - I might try and do the same here??
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Re: Wales v3

Postby cairnswk on Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:13 pm

You've moved from start to almost finish...well done. i like the old-fashioned look you've given it. :)
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Re: Wales v3

Postby MrBenn on Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:29 am

Thanks Cairns.

[/shameless bump]
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Re: Wales v3

Postby foregone on Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:38 am

To make your shameless bump worthwhile, heh.

Its looks great, love the style. Now for the negative(ish):

The dragon can be touched up just a little. I get that you're going for a handpainted watercolour thing there but it could just be touched up a little.
A couple of the armynumbers overlap borders at the top of the map. This makes it hard to see the numbers. Possibly just a slight shift over?

I know I never replied to you earlier about this (and I may just be a little slower than the other kids in the class) but I'm still not sure how the shires will work. Can a territory which borders the northern part of a shire attack the double shire at the bottom? Maybe just explain the way in which this will function to me in small words.

Again, looking really nice.
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Re: Wales v3

Postby MrBenn on Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:59 am

foregone wrote:The dragon can be touched up just a little. I get that you're going for a handpainted watercolour thing there but it could just be touched up a little.

Are you referring to the pixelly black lines? If so, I agree ;-)

A couple of the armynumbers overlap borders at the top of the map. This makes it hard to see the numbers. Possibly just a slight shift over?

Will do :roll:

I know I never replied to you earlier about this (and I may just be a little slower than the other kids in the class) but I'm still not sure how the shires will work. Can a territory which borders the northern part of a shire attack the double shire at the bottom? Maybe just explain the way in which this will function to me in small words.

Is this clearer?
    Each shire has two armies, which can attack any army in a neighbouring shire, as well as each other.
Is it going to be worth putting this attack rule onto the map?
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Re: Wales v3

Postby edbeard on Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:03 am

can you attack from an english half of a territory to a neighboring welsh territory or can you only cross over inside one territory.


I think adding the attacking gameplay rule is important and saves the trouble of ugly lines all over the place.
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