Ancient Greece [Done]

[Mr. K]

Hello everyone, i've been working on this new map of Ancient Greece. Its got 36 territories so that it will work with 2,3,4 or 6 players. Ignore the key, its not what the key will actually end up looking like, I just wanted to put something down to keep it straight.



Any suggestions on boundries or anything else?

[AndyDufresne]

I don't know if it's something on my end, but I am unable to view your map. I simply get a 'HTTP Page cannot be found'.

--Andy

[Mr. K]

I'll get the picture working in a few mins, sorry

[Mr. K]

Sorry about that, should be working fine now.

[Hoff]

It looks good so far but i think it would be better with some more territories. Atleast split up asia minor, its so huge while the other nations are really small.

[rocksolid]

I disagree with Hoff, but I see his point. Maybe not make the mainland of Asia Minor a territory at all, and just have the islands off the edge - Ephesus, etc - be a continent together. I don't remember my ancient history all that well, but I don't think the mainland of Asia Minor really interacted much with the culture of the islands, except when Persian hordes came spewing out of it to conquer, and to have that here, you'd really need Persia to be on the map, so maybe grey out Asia Minor.

[AndyDufresne]

The map looks wonderful in visual appeal. Great job on that. I'm sure later you will rough out more of the visuals, legends, etc. So I won't particularly comment on those right now other than I suggest:

---You might change the water shading. Perhaps an inverse might be more visually appealing: Darker on the rims and lighter toward the center. The map just feels a little dim in the center.

~~~~~~~

---I'd have to agree with perhaps a split of Asia Minor, is possible (while still holding true to a RISK number (I.E. easilly divisible). Perhaps if need be other countries.

Once I see more of a closer 'final' map, I'll try to post more on the over all balance.

--Andy

[Mr. K]

Well Greek city states often held the entire coast of Asia Minor and deeper into it. So depending on what point, that map doesn't neccessarily need Persia. I agree the Asia Minor territory is pretty huge, but I had a pretty difficult time in figuring out how to split it up.

Also, not that it would change the game play, but I canged the Asia Minor territory's name to "Phrygia" and made the entire brown/green continent "Asia Minor" (rather than "the east").

[Mr. K]

The map looks wonderful in visual appeal. Great job on that. I'm sure later you will rough out more of the visuals, legends, etc. So I won't particularly comment on those right now other than I suggest:

---You might change the water shading. Perhaps an inverse might be more visually appealing: Darker on the rims and lighter toward the center. The map just feels a little dim in the center.

~~~~~~~

---I'd have to agree with perhaps a split of Asia Minor, is possible (while still holding true to a RISK number (I.E. easilly divisible). Perhaps if need be other countries.

Once I see more of a closer 'final' map, I'll try to post more on the over all balance.

--Andy

Yea I figured if I were to find a way to split Asia minor i'd just get rid of one of the coastal islands all around the map, I only added a few of them because I needed a good number (Skyros, Icaria)

[lilwdlnddude]

great job. this is one of the better looking maps ive seen being made.

[Jota]

I think that Nobunga is working on a similar map as well.

[Mr. K]

I made some changes. Got rid of Icaria and Limnos, and split up Asia Minor. Still got 36 territories. Changed the graphics a bit, this particular picture may be a little bright, but that has nothing to do with the map thats just some issues with saving it as a JPG.



I made Thrace part of Northern Greece.

Suggestions ?

[Hoff]

I dont know if its that saving issue you were talking about but I think darker oceans look better. The first one you posted looked better, but my opinion is a darker ocean looks better. besides that its looking pretty good

[Mr. K]

I took Andy's advice to reverse the ocean gradient and brightened it up on the whole. Personally I like the new way better. But I guess it is possible you dont like the color because the entire map is a bit brighter than I like it.

[rocksolid]

I don't know, K, I think a big knock against a lot of maps is that they're too dark. I like the new way better too, and have no problem with how bright it is.

[AndyDufresne]

Hm, So...

---I'm liking the reverse gradient, glad it turned out how I thought it would.

---Splitting up Asia Minor was probably the way to go. It looks more visually appealing now that it isn't a bunch of little islands and a giant country. Seems more balanced in that aspect.

---Legend is coming along nicely also I believe. Perhaps one suggestion to look into would be changing the 'Directional' Greece continent names. Sometimes it just seems like they are blander, and I'm sure you could find alternative names for the posted areas. But if not, they will work just fine. I just happen to like names rather than 'directional area'.

That's all I will say for now. Perhaps when you are done changing most of the layout of the map, I'll try to comment on the nitty gritty parts.

~~~

--Andy

[Nobunaga]

... I love it. I wasn't aware this map was being made and had my own Greek map under construction . . . . Construction has since stopped.

... Could you slap some art on there someplace? A Trojan ship or a Minotaur or something?

[rocksolid]

Suggestion pursuant to Andy's comment - Central Greece -> Athens?

And a possible alternative to "The Islands" could be "The Aegean" or "Aegea".

That rhombus around the Kyklades took me a second or two to figure out.

Lookin good...

[zorba_ca]

Love the map! It looks awesome!

Great balance between safe spots and hard to hold territories. Good accessibility. Just waiting to see the bonuses.

I agree with Andy about the names, so I suggest the following:

Northern Greece = The Mountains
Western Greece = Central Hellas
Central Greece = Attica (and change the name of the territory so named) or Kapital (or the correct Greek term of your choosing)

[Marvaddin]

Wow, I loved it...

... but I would still like of 42 countries. Anyway, very beautiful, although with some playability problems (for example, all green countries beeing borders).

I believe that Nobunaga should post his version, so we could choose the better things in each to make a really good one.

[wolfman]

it looks really cool!!

[areyouincahoots]

looks good...the lighter version is better, in my opinion...i'd definitely be interesting in seeing a finished version.

[Mr. K]

Hey guys, i'm glad everyone is liking the map so far.

As for the legend, I didn't really put much thought into the names yet. I didn't realize people like non-directional names so much.

I suppose I could change "Central Greece" to Athens, I was actually considering that one. As for "The Islands," I could name them "Nisia" (which is the Greek word for Islands, and what Greeks usually refer to them as) or "The Agean" is also a good suggestion, though I feel that one is slightly misguiding. I'll put some more thought into the rest of them later.

You guys can start commenting on the nitty gritty of the map, i'm not really sure what else to do at this point other than work on that kind of stuff.

As for Western Greece having too many entrances, thats pretty right. I figured i'd break the entrance between Achae and Aetolia. Still its a pretty tough place to control though. Perhaps also break the Kefalonia and Zakynthos link? I think that'd make it a lot easier to control. Thoughts? Should I break any links, if so, which? or both?
Also, Central Greece looks pretty hard to control too. I dont think it would be appropriate to put any boundries in there other than possibly make Euboea untouchable from Western Greek territories..

As for bonuses, feel free to make suggestions. I'm not really sure I can come up with a great bonus list... But heres one, just from taking a few looks at the map (using the names that are currently on the legend).

Peloponesos: 5
Northern Greece: 4
Western Greece: (i'll decide when i'm more sure of its borders)
Central Greece: (same)
Asia Minor: 3
The Islands: 2

[zorba_ca]

You might want to make the quadrilateral border of Kyklades the same colour as the rest of the borders (i.e. black). The current border looks too much (in colour and width) like the attack links between territories.

While certain continents do have a very high proportion of border territories this is not an altogether bad thing. So long as the continents do not have too many territories. It just means the map plays differently. Different is good.

Your next step should be to come up with some firm bonuses (maybe take away an attack link or two) and let Marv rip it apart using his quantum "territory:# of border:total # of territory" formula.

[AndyDufresne]

Ah...My real long post did not make it...due to forum logging out...damn it...I'll type it up again...from memory...Should've saved it.

--Andy