Vancouver [Quenched]

[RjBeals]

Click image to enlarge.

[/quote]

Wow.. a purple map. I like the colors you've chosen. Soft, pastel feel - my style. And lots of bonus regions. This should make for many a good battle.

Here's some of my critiques:
* The territory font you've chosen is okay. It's very plain. That's good, it's better than something that you can't read. But in this case, it looks preschool. I would suggest bringing the point size down just a bit. Maybe try a few other font styles in the same family as the plain san-serif family. And personally, I think the outer glow on those territ names is too bright. Also - your army circles look pixilated. See below.



* Your borders still don't look that good. It looks like it took you about 5 minutes to draw every border on the map. There are jagged places. They are all just black. Are those real region borders? If so are they really that straight? Maybe you could put a little more curve in them, so they don't look like a kids puzzle. Also, if they are not "true" region borders, maybe you could adjust some a bit to allow room for the full territory names and army circles. ?

* The title needs some work. Again, personal taste, but I don't care for the mountain range masked into the non-playing territory lands. I would prefer all the non-play lands be a neutral gray/beige type color, then just have a very nice "Vancouver" title on top. See how you did those beveled mountains in the south part? Maybe have that same type look in the north part also?

* In your mini-map, take out the territory borders. You don't need them. Just keep the main bonus region borders. Like see in your minimap how the dark purple "The Boonies" doesn't have the inner territ borders? Thats how the whole map should be.

* the explanation text above the minimap (Airports, Ports, Stations...) is almost unreadable. The black font with the hard white stroke looks really really bad. You need to redo that somehow. Howabout just white text, with no stroke.

* I would say loose the land bridge style you have, and go for a real bridge graphic. And maybe add some curves to those railway lines. Curve them around the territ names, and army circles. Put some layer efx on them also. Looks like you drew them in Paint as they are now. Very pixilated and straight.

Overall - the map looks fun, and I would love to play it. You just need to work on the visuals. Don't give up. There's plenty of tutorials around here and the web for ideas.

[bryguy]

1) The ports, stations, airports, etc, all look pixelated
2) I dont see how RJ can think your army circles are pixilated, they look blurry to me, except for your stations, which obviously look pixelated.
3) Some of the bonuses seem to low.
4) Im not really sold on the borders, especially the big ones that seperate areas, these are especially pixelated IMO
5) The texture on The Boonies is a little to much. Maybe try lowering the opacity a bit?
6) The +1 for New Westminster is hard to read on the mini-map. Also, I think its to low. Maybe instead an autodeploy of +1 or +2?
7) Remove the borders from the mini-map.
Its a little hard for me to read the wording next to the symbols. Any chance you could up the size of the font by 1?
9) Could you lower the opacity of the texture along the bottom of the map? (its off the gameplay area)
10) I agree with RJ about the territory font.
11) The stations and station connectors are very pixelated. Looks like you drew them using a pencil tool, instead of the paintbrush or ink tool.
12) The white box behind the bonuses in the upper right corner makes it to bright IMO, maybe try a black box instead? (same opacity) That way the bonuses w/ glow would stand out more and be more visible.
13) The bonuses in the box in the upper right (the one just mentioned) seem to be in a jumble, as if you just put things in at random spots. Could you try to arrange it a bit?

Overall I think that this is a good map, keep up the good work

[shakeycat]

Thank you RjBeals and Bryguy, I need feedback like yours!

Bryguy, the upper right box - I wonder, do I even need it? I see I have two bonus sections explaining them, and that's silly. I think I need to name the continents at some point, so maybe I'll find a better way to represent that.

To explain the supposedly jumbled territory names in the upper right box: they correspond with each territory's location on the map.

And the Boonies' purple colour is what makes it appear to have a more opaque texture. The texture is the same opacity as the other territories. Guess I need to fiddle with colours.

I will start working through these issues.

[sailorseal]

So here is what I think:
1. The legend is complicated and hard to read/understand so just add that info into the minimap
2. Just say own ports +2 saying that you need 2 is unnecessary because there are only 2
3. The map seems 2D give it some substance, make it pop off the page
4. Make new west minister start neutral because the game will be swayed by whom ever starts with it
5. Divide the boonies further or people will often begin with that bonus

Great Map! Excited to see this in the main foundry

[thenobodies80]

In general your map is good.

this is my opinion:

TITLE,FONTS, SYMBOLS & COLORS

Title is simply but good.
Fonts are clear but too bold.
Remove the neon, flash my eyes.
Colors are fantastic don't change them!
Remove the white border on ports and airport symbols

LEGEND & MINIMAP
the minimap is good, i think you have to remove the borders in this small one.
Remove the mountains and sky in minimap.
try to center the bonus numbers in the continents territories in minimap.
Remove the upper right legend is useless, probably you can write the train routes bonuses in the bottom left side of map (there's nothing here!)
the new empty space in right upper could be a good place for title or simply left the mountains visible.

CONTINENTS & TERRITORIES

66 territories is great number for epic battles
i suggest you not to consider the airport and new westiminister like continents.
Why not to give them a +1 autodeploy for each one? All these territories should be neutrals at the start of a game.
Territories borders are complitely wrong, they are unpretty and pixelous.
Army cirlces are pixelous too.
In territories with both train station and armies circles, remove these last one, probably maps could be more clear in some points.
if not,why edmonds hasn't armies circle? I hope you understand what i mean...
Tsawwassen is unpretty with that south border with another color, i supposed you have a valid reason, but you could be less realistic for only a territory.

BONUSES

in my opinion bonuses are:

west vancouver +2
north vancouver +2
the boonies +2
tricities +4
new westminister +1 (autodeploy)
burnaby +3
vancouver +4
richmond +5
delta +3
surrey +5
langley +3
airport +1 (autodeploy)

trains are good
ports should be only a water route, usefull for gameplay, but no +1 bonus in my opinion
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you're on the right way.
Nice Start!

[shakeycat]

Thenobodies80-

Tsawwassen, if I understand what you mean, has a purple thing dangling off its south border. That bit of land belongs to the USA, a little place called Point Roberts. Are you saying I should change it somehow?

I can't believe I forgot the army circle on Edmonds! I'll fix that when I re-do the circles to look like RjBeals' ones.

No bonus for ports, I'm cool with that. And Autodeploys sound good, plus the make games interesting. How did you come up with your bonuses?

If you look back to earlier versions of this map, Vancouver and Burnaby had more territories. Do we like it better with less, as it is now, or no?

I'll keep listening over the weekend and work out what I want to do. I'll have something to show for it next week.

[thenobodies80]

Thenobodies80-

Tsawwassen, if I understand what you mean, has a purple thing dangling off its south border. That bit of land belongs to the USA, a little place called Point Roberts. Are you saying I should change it somehow?

I can't believe I forgot the army circle on Edmonds! I'll fix that when I re-do the circles to look like RjBeals' ones.

No bonus for ports, I'm cool with that. And Autodeploys sound good, plus the make games interesting. How did you come up with your bonuses?

If you look back to earlier versions of this map, Vancouver and Burnaby had more territories. Do we like it better with less, as it is now, or no?

I'll keep listening over the weekend and work out what I want to do. I'll have something to show for it next week.

yes i think you should color usa part for tsawassen, no realism but a better look!

Sorry but i have no formula for bonuses, in general is one less than yours. but now you can go on this way without a settled bonuses.
try to make all better in general ( border and circles graphic first!).
What do you use to do armies circle?
there's some good tools and tips here: MAP MAKING TOOLS

[the.killing.44]

Hey, nicely done on this. I might be repeating some things because of the influx of comments (I wish the whole committee of Reviews was around when Korea was [Adv] comment!).

Firstly, the train lines are very pixelated. Adding some Gaussian blur should do the trick of eliminating this. Or, if that doesn't work (and I encourage you to do this from here on in), take the brush tool with color and settings, etc., click on the beginning of the line and just make a dot. After that, hold shift and click the end of the line, on the beginning of the circle, and that should make a straight and smooth line.

Secondly, I agree with Rj on the fonts. Even if you choose to keep the same style of font (try Myriad Pro or Stone Sans ITC — those are good), I would like to see the font be smaller. And to go along with that, reduce the glow on the key text (and do this if/when you make the typeface smaller), so it doesn't override the text itself.

Since your borders are very straight and such, I encourage you to use the pen tool. Set the brush to be 1-2px, spacing 10%, flow + hardness 100%. From there, take the pen tool and trace over your borders. In "Paths" in the layer window, I advise you to click "New Path" (looks like new layer symbol on the bottom) for each separate layer. Then, after drawing each border, control-click the path in the layer window and hit "Stroke Path…" Select "Mode: brush" and there you have smooth borders.

Like others have said before, the key needs work. The minimap looks great, but there is a problem with the way you organized the text. What I do is make all the text one type layer, align it all one space to the left, and make perfect colums via aligning each name + # with the tab key. Works like a charm. Oh, and don't be afraid to make the key drop further down as you have a ton of space in the Boonies (I think it's that … there are so many similar colors, which I do like though) area with those huge territories.

Lastly, in gameplay, I haven't taken a very hard look but the top left is ridiculously linear. It's literally 1 border for 7 straight territories, save Horshoe bay with the anchor. I'd make Horshoe Bay and Dundarave border each other by making Cypress's border up at the main border, and play around with borders in the emerald green area there.

Nicely done here
.44

[the.killing.44]

And as for the USA land … I'm just thinking aloud via 5-minute 'Shops:

Click image to enlarge.

just a thought

.44

[rjz115dude]

I ENJOY this map alot. Looks really good. Well made and all around perfect map that completly meets conquer club's standers in every way. This map def. has a future. Things I would change: The ocean or the sea or w/e looks plain. I think you can amp it up a little bit; make it seem cooler: add more texture to it. And i think it would be less confusing with different colors on the eastern terretories. There all purple

[oaktown]

Someday I'd like to see us create a city map that conveys the flavor of the city. New York doesn't do it, Montreal doesn't do it, Puget doesn't do it, San Francisco doesn't do it, and this map doesn't do it. Where are the landmarks, skylines, and other images that make Vancouver a special place?

Don't get me wrong - the work on this map to date is great. I love the color palette you've chosen, and it looks quite playable. But if you renamed it Santa Barbara, San Diego, Boston, Naples, Sydney, Victoria, Dublin, or any other coastal city, would anybody who didn't know the layout of the city know the difference?

[the.killing.44]

Someday I'd like to see us create a city map that conveys the flavor of the city. New York doesn't do it, Montreal doesn't do it, Puget doesn't do it, San Francisco doesn't do it, and this map doesn't do it. Where are the landmarks, skylines, and other images that make Vancouver a special place?

Don't get me wrong - the work on this map to date is great. I love the color palette you've chosen, and it looks quite playable. But if you renamed it Santa Barbara, San Diego, Boston, Naples, Sydney, Victoria, Dublin, or any other coastal city, would anybody who didn't know the layout of the city know the difference?

Psst … make a fictional "Oaktown" map — you can make the character, eh?

.44

[oaktown]

Psst … make a fictional "Oaktown" map — you can make the character, eh?

There's no fiction about it...
viewtopic.php?f=242&t=72326

Anyway, my intention above was not to delay this map, just to push the mapmaker to consider what makes his/her city great and somehow incorporate that into the map. A city map should be a celebration of the city, not just a flat depiction of a bunch of faceless, colorless neighborhood names.

[the.killing.44]

I mean, "Oaktown: Hippo-Land (with a leprechaun at the end)."

But back on Vancouver, I think you need to either spread out where the colors are (like not all purples on right) or differenciate better. The minimap makes it okay, but it's impossible to tell anything color-wise in the top-right. Your glows seem different/messed up, anyway…

.44

[MrBenn]

Shakeycat, once you've produced an update that takes on board some of this feedback, we'll see about getting you into the foundry proper

[shakeycat]

Perhaps some locals can help me answer Oaktown's question - what is uniquely Vancouver that I can put in the map?

The Coast Mountains are universal over all of the Lower Mainland, and my dinky little drawing doesn't do them justice. On a nice day in Vancouver, one says "I can see the mountains!" and then comments on their snow.

The city skyline of Vancouver (Downtown) is not terribly interesting, with very few unique buildings that would set it apart, except maybe the Sails or Harbour Centre. What one notices instead of the buildings is the backdrop. Try: http://www.gorentvancouver.com/vancouverinfo/VancouverSkyline.jpg

Other than that, I'm coming up short on visible landmarks. There's other things - hawks and herons in Boundary Bay, a garbage dump in Burns Bog, everyone's grandparents, a big white rock, and the Peach Arch in White Rock. A suspension bridge in Capilano and a free on in Lynn Valley, as well as a very large Douglas Fir. Skiing in Cypress, sewage treatment in Annacis, and a yearly Rodeo in Cloverdale, which is also the downtown set for Smallville. Steveston is where you buy fresh fish and seafood, Deep Cove is good for kayaking, and Campbell Valley is for horseback riding.

Is there an example of a map that shows a city or place's flavour well? We only seem to have examples of ones that do it poorly.

Thanks again for all the feedback, and on Monday I will see what I can do.

[the.killing.44]

Perhaps some locals can help me answer Oaktown's question - what is uniquely Vancouver that I can put in the map?

Sergeant 1st Class shakeycat

Posts: 70
Joined: March 11th, 2007, 5:13 am
Location: Vancouver

?

.44

EDIT: numero 1,000 … nice

[shakeycat]

Yes, I'm local, but I know there are other locals who have commented on this thread, and may have some ideas. It's a big area!

[shakeycat]

I've updated the map:

Click image to enlarge.

I'm not sure about the font, and have replaced my anchor/plane with ones from Wingdings. I'm sure this has been done before, and may try something else when I work on it next. Will probably look into the fonts suggested on page 6 and see how they fit.

[shakeycat]

Click image to enlarge.

Are these too high? I don't like making the bonus higher than the territory count, but places like Burnaby would be very difficult to hold, as would any train system.

Next up - Bridges. What to do? Keep the style but make them cleaner, or seek a graphic solution?

[MrBenn]

That draft is a massive leap forwards - Good job!



Just a couple of things from an admin point of view now... In your first post, could you please move the links to each map to be with the description of each update. Would you also be able to add the page numbers of the most recent update to the thread title...Something like: "Vancouver Map [D] (03 Mar - p7)"

[LED ZEPPELINER]

congrats

[the.killing.44]

There we go … that's a great update. What does the USA in the bottom at very low opacity? I liked it better there…

.44

[thenobodies80]

congrats.
Remember to add the stamp image in the first post, it will be usefull for future suggestions, to understand at what point your map is.
And the [D] tag in the title as required handbook by rule #3

[shakeycat]

Thank you thank you !!

Changes made to first post as requested.

.44 - Added some USA for you. Is this what you had in mind? It DOES complete the shapes of the land, while not taking away at all from the text.

Click image to enlarge.