New York City [Quenched]

[snapdoodle]

sorry about that coleman. changed now.

[Coleman]

No worries, great job. Takes a bit to get used to the process I know. We'll get things defined better for everyone soon.

[benny profane]

woohoo, thanks coleman. update coming soon!

[Ogrecrusher]

I prefer either of the water colours on page 4 to the current one. But maybe it's just me.

[Keredrex]

Map Looks great But Riverdale is no where near part of the South Bronx
You should swap the colors of Riverdale and Castle Hill
or Make SoBro - West Bronx and Pelham East Bronx

Sorry but as a fan of the club and of the foundry, and born and raised in the bronx... I think we should have as much accuracy as possible

I preferred the Blue Water Look it was lighter and the City Stood out better against a light background

[oaktown]

Hi snap,

For starters I am thrilled to see that somebody may finally be doing justice to a NYC map. The map is very clean, and appropriately large.

I've not read the entire thread so forgive me if I am repeating points that are being addressed, but here are my thoughts from the point of view of somebody who is looking to play this map for the first time.

• You have three different styles of inter-island attack routes: subway lines, bridges, and what i assume to be a ferry line. This has the potential to be confusing.
• As far as i know this is the first attempt at a map that has two different army counts/territories within one geographical region. You'll have to be very careful about the naming of subway stations. And are subway stations required to hold the bonus in which they lie? I assume they are, but they are kind of a separate entity, so this may require clarification.
• Not sure if I like every station being able to hit everything else on the line... hitting downtown manhattan from way out in Rockaway Beach without controlling anything in between? Could make for some seriously frustrating game scenarios getting whelped from all over the map! Why not just be able to attack adjoining stations along the line?
• Try to make every effort possible to get territory names on the actual territories - with the narrow channels it is easy to casually misread the names.
• Is there any other name you can use for Downtown Brooklyn? Confusing with a Downtown bonus as well.
• I assume the bonus for holding a borough includes the bonuses for holding a portion of the borough? Queens is 11 total, not 11 + 5 for outer + 3 for inner, right?

Alright, keep up the good work!

[yeti_c]

Few things.

1) I agree with Oaktown about Rails attacking 1 along the line.
2) Randalls Island - make the bridges attach to the edge of the island - otherwise it looks like you can bypass the island with the bridge.
3) Parks... Perhaps a bit close to the other green - I would like to see maybe something in them to further distinguish them?
4) Stations & Labels - The labels appear to be nearer the station and not the territory circle... I'd try to change that if I were you
5) How will it look if you named the Bridges and ferry Route?
6) Are there bonuses for the subways?

C.

[edbeard]

Few things.

1) I agree with Oakrown about Rails attacking 1 along the line.

6) Are there bonuses for the subways?

C.

1. me too

6. they don't currently. I think it'd be a nice idea, but they were concerned with too many bonuses.


I'll wait till the next update to give feedback since not that much has changed since I last posted here. I'd like to see what changes first.

[yeti_c]

Bugger - I typoed Oaktown!! Soz big man!!

C.

[Elijah S]

Recent posts have mainly addressed gameplay issues and, while I like this map, I have only a couple suggestions on the graphics...

First of all, the colors in the legend, particulary the yellows, are very similar... they both get the same bonus but should maybe be a little more distinct.
The same applies to a couple of the yellow areas on the map.

The parks are a great way to place impassables, but maybe instead of just a solid green they could be trees or grass?

Nothing graphically seems to say "New York City" here...
Maybe a Statue of Liberty, shot of the skyline or Empire State Bldg?

Otherwise, very nice work !

[benny profane]

Large


Small


hey folks...
some minor changes tonight:
-changed water color
-put Randall's Island over the Tri-Borough Bridge
-darkened parks a couple shades
-slight increase of the train station color borders
-squeezed some more territory names within the territory
-changed downtown brooklyn to "DUMBO"
yes, there is a neighborhood called DUMBO.

to do:
-clean up train lines graphically
-address bonuses
-introduce proposal of additional islands
-address naming of bridges and parks
-other graphical issues like new york "flavor"

we are focusing on gameplay issues, and while we know that sometimes these elements can affect each other, we'd like to take one thing at a time. we'd like to discuss the trains now, since they cause the most confusion.

we have a number of gameplay options, but first, there are two problems that don't affect these options:
-station names-
two choices here. either the stations are numbered (ex. blue line 3), or the stations take the name of the territory they are in (ex. Astoria Station).

-the other problem is how do we show that stations are not part of the territory they are in. this will probably have to be addressed in the legend.
just to clarify, if you hold a territory with a train station, that station is technically underground (even if we can't represent that). so, a territory can attack the train station, and vice versa. but the station has nothing to do with continent bonuses.

now, train system gameplay options...

-the stations could start with neutrals, or not: initially, we thought of using neutrals in order to buffer the chaos of being able to attack all the way down the train line. but these wouldn't be necessary if we were to adjacent attacks on the line.

-mobility: adjacent attacks, or the whole line. we originally wanted to do whole line attacks to mimic the way subways actually work. but many people seem to favor adjacent attacks.

-bonuses: initially we didn't want train bonuses, worried that it would be too much, and also we knew that entire train lines would be VERY difficult to hold. but we're willing to consider them.

now here is where we need help. we're making two proposals:

1. the original idea was to have neutrals (3-5) on each train station, be able to attack the whole line, and no bonuses. our hope was that this would make the trains more utilized in later stages of each game.

2. the new idea is to have players dropped on the stations, have adjacent attacks only, and have bonuses for holding each train line. our formula for bonuses would be: +1 for each station, and an additional +1 for each transfer station on the line. (for example, orange line would have a bonus of 10)

in addition to this, we'd like to ask if we show that the trains have bonuses in the legend, will this make it any clearer that they are not part of territories or territory bonuses.

sorry this is sooo long, but these are important elements that are crucial to distinguishing this map. above all, we want everyone to enjoy playing on it.

thanks for the feedback everyone!
it's miller time.

-benny and snap

[whitestazn88]

looks sweet, didnt even see v4 or v5, so from 3 to 6 it looks phenomenal

[InkL0sed]

I think I'd go with proposal two, but at the same time maybe keep the regular continent bonuses.

Also, how are you going to name the stations? If you need help finding names for them, PM me, as I've been all over the MTA.

[snapdoodle]

5) How will it look if you named the Bridges and ferry Route?

haven't tried it out yet but i'm running critical on space unless i get time to sit for a good while and adjust. which i'll have to do at some point, i know.

[Keredrex]

Awesome.. but maybe lighten the color of uptown manhattan and east brooklyn just a little

[yeti_c]

we have a number of gameplay options, but first, there are two problems that don't affect these options:
-station names-
two choices here. either the stations are numbered (ex. blue line 3), or the stations take the name of the territory they are in (ex. Astoria Station).

Name them "territory name station" if you start naming them something else then it will be harder to find them.

-the other problem is how do we show that stations are not part of the territory they are in. this will probably have to be addressed in the legend.
just to clarify, if you hold a territory with a train station, that station is technically underground (even if we can't represent that). so, a territory can attack the train station, and vice versa. but the station has nothing to do with continent bonuses.

I guess this will have to be legends... - the other thing - with the colouring of the army shadow for the line colour - and the fading of the army colour for the main territory - it looks like the main territory is underground - perhaps swap the fade so you have a crisp army shadow - and a coloured fade for the subway?

in addition to this, we'd like to ask if we show that the trains have bonuses in the legend, will this make it any clearer that they are not part of territories or territory bonuses.

Yeah giving something else a bonus kindof implies that it's not part of the continent - so would help - but probably not enough!

C.

[edbeard]

just say something like "Stations are not part of other bonuses. They have their own bonus"

then below that list the station bonuses.


I agree with the others on the "territory name station" way. otherwise you'd need to put another label in all those territories. that wouldn't be smart.

[mibi]

...drives up slowly...

...rolls down window...


I think a new york city map needs to be made and this certainly is the best attempt so far. But you have some series issues, namely the subway where it can attack everyone on the same line, this basically ruins the map and will just lead to endless bonus breaking. Adjacent attacks along the subway line is the only viable option as I see it.

the second major issue is that this map has no flavor. the gameplay looks good and the lines are all crisp and identiable, but this is the Big Apple, the greatest city in the world, and this map has capture none of its flavor. its just geography. the fabled central park is reduced to a non descript green rectangle and the skyline is gone. so please please do something to put the city back into this map. maybe a slight transparent overlay of an image of that actual city geography or something, or maybe just some more detail, or just something that says "New York City" besides the title font.

and lastly, you should really try to fit the territory names on the territories. Don;t be afraid to CTRL+T on those text layers and turn them on an angle. If you think it will look too congested, well, that is just part of New York.


tires screeching...

[Lone.prophet]

how does the subway work? are the stations part of the continents? make it easier to understand i think

[benny profane]

I think I'd go with proposal two, but at the same time maybe keep the regular continent bonuses.

Also, how are you going to name the stations? If you need help finding names for them, PM me, as I've been all over the MTA.

i should have made that clear i guess. the train bonuses are not intended to replace the continent bonuses.

as for station names, we probably wouldn't have room to do more than just number them. and as yeti c and edbeard point out, there probably isn't room to do even that. most likely stations will be named as the territory they are within, like "Astoria Station," or "Midtown Station."

the other thing - with the colouring of the army shadow for the line colour - and the fading of the army colour for the main territory - it looks like the main territory is underground - perhaps swap the fade so you have a crisp army shadow - and a coloured fade for the subway?

this could really work! i'm worried we may have to fade the actual train lines as well to be consistent. and this may or may not look very good. we'll give it a shot.

how does the subway work? are the stations part of the continents? make it easier to understand i think

in the update on pg 6 we presented two possibilities for how the trains will work. they are not part of the continents, and this will have to be put in the legend.

mibi - many thanks for the driveby! all very good points. we will work something out. our main concern with style is keeping it tasteful. many of you may remember one of the older attempts with king kong in the background.
not what we're looking for.

update soon!
thanks again folks...
-benny

[Lone.prophet]

but than the stations can only attack the territory it is in and other stations?

[benny profane]

but than the stations can only attack the territory it is in and other stations?

that's right. any given station can only attack the territory it is in, and the adjacent station or stations.

a territory can also attack the station that is within its borders.

does everyone grasp how the transfer stations work?
you can transfer from one train line to another, but only when you hold the transfer station (two colored border around the station army circle).

[Lone.prophet]

think thats not possible with the current XML

[benny profane]

....

well, that would really suck.
i feel like someone would have mentioned that by now though.
snap assured me that it was possible.

[snapdoodle]

think thats not possible with the current XML

i'm pretty sure it is. Basically you list in XML each territory that borders a particular area. So Astoria station would border it's adjacent stations and the territory it was in, in this case, astoria.

i'll post an example in a minute.