Greater China [Quenched] (thanks Widowmakers)

[WidowMakers]

Hey we also need to fill this information out as well.

Greater China by Wisse
Map Creation Thread: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11235
Number of Territories: 29
Number of Continents: 7
Gameplay Features: One Way Borders / Bombardment

Accompanying Story:

Recommended Gameplay Settings: Any

Gameplay Feature Associations:

One Way Borders-Gansu attacks Nei Mongol over the Great Wall & E. Xizang attacks W. Xizang over mountians
Bombardment-Chinese Kashmir can bombard E. Xizang

Map Description:

[Wisse]

you forgot the neutral territory (not sure wich one, but it is one from jinan, just look in the xml )

and the 1 bonus on all the yin/yang symbols is also an xml feature


recommented gameplay would be: 3 or 4 players

[iancanton]

it is now as this:
every country with a yin/yang symbol does get 1 army every turn
but if much people argue about it, it doesn't matter that much to make a bonus for 2 or 3 if you have them all

are we keeping the original bonus of 1 army per turn for each yin-yang symbol?

actually, i think the yin-yang symbols, which signify harmony and balance, don't look right in a game where u're trying to kill everyone else!

what do u think about replacing the top one by the communist emblem, the middle one by the nationalist emblem and the bottom one by the hong kong emblem? this allows us to include the best-known city in china, which is so different from any other part of china (different passports and border controls, different legal system, different currency and cars that drive on the other side of the road) that it deserves to put in an appearance.

http://www.protocol.gov.hk/flags/eng/r_embl/index.html

showing the hong kong special administrative region flag, in the same way as the small republic of china flag, is also appropriate.

http://www.protocol.gov.hk/flags/eng/r_flag/index.html

ian.

[WidowMakers]

I like that idea but the legend will need to be reworked and Wisse will need to approve it.

If we do go that way I suggest +1 for holding 2 and +3 for holding 3

WM

[Wisse]

I like that idea but the legend will need to be reworked and Wisse will need to approve it.

If we do go that way I suggest +1 for holding 2 and +3 for holding 3

WM

i think its ok to change that

[WidowMakers]

OK here is version 7
-I changed teh Yin/Yang symbols
-adjusted the legend to show +1 for 2 and +3 for 3
-Added Hong Kong Flag and symbol to Title area

[nagerous]

Should there be some indication of what are impassables and what aren't?

[DiM]

Should there be some indication of what are impassables and what aren't?

no there shouldn't be. it's common sense mountains and rivers are impassables if no arrows or bridges indicate that they can be crossed.

[WidowMakers]

Should there be some indication of what are impassables and what aren't?

no there shouldn't be. it's common sense mountains and rivers are impassables if no arrows or bridges indicate that they can be crossed.

I agree. They are not needed. Anything else to do? I will make the small map tomorrow and load XML.

Unless there are more issues/suggestions. I think we are pretty close

WM

[WidowMakers]

OK here is version 7

-I updated the XML with the bonus groups for the three territories with emblems
-Updated all coordinates for XML
-Updated Bonus for XML

According to Wisse's XML, Shandong starts as

Code: Select all

<neutral>1</neutral>

I personally think this is bad. It just sets up whomever is in Henan to be able to get the bonus more easily.
I suggest removing the Neutral starting.

Other than That I think we are good.

XML:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/15/ ... hinaV4.xml







Greater China by Wisse
Map Creation Thread: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11235
Number of Territories: 29
Number of Continents: 7
Gameplay Features: One Way Borders / Bombardment / Collections / Neutrals

Recommended Gameplay Settings:
3 - 4 players

Gameplay Feature Associations:

One Way Borders-Gansu attacks Nei Mongol over the Great Wall & E. Xizang attacks W. Xizang over mountians
Bombardment-Chinese Kashmir can bombard E. Xizang
Collections-Territories with political emblems are part of a bonus group collection. +1 for holding any two and +3 for holding all of them.
Neutral-Shandong starts the game neutral with 1 army

Map Description: This is a small political/geographical map of China.

[Wisse]

instead of deleting the 1 neutral, make it 2 or 3 well i prefer 2 because 3 would give a defense for the north

[WidowMakers]

instead of deleting the 1 neutral, make it 2 or 3 well i prefer 2 because 3 would give a defense for the north

I still think the neutrals should be 3 that way it does not give a player an advantage only having to kill 1 or 2.

Plus the only thing having Shandong start neutral is it eliminates the possibility of 1 player starting with both territories in the group.

But if you want to keep it Wisse, I will stop talking about it.

We need any more suggestions to the map.

Or is it time for quench?

WM

[iancanton]

i think 2 or 3 armies for the jinan neutral will be better than 1.

almost quench time, except for something that was the direct result of replacing the yin-yang symbols by the three emblems: the republic of china (taiwan) emblem is now in jiangsu! the emblems will make sense only if we move the middle one to taiwan (taipei, northern taiwan, to be precise).

this will change gameplay. it makes a small holdable area in the south (guangdong-fujian-taiwan) with a bonus of 1 for holding two emblems, like the one suggested by marvaddin, although it's the jiangsu bonus that needs to be moved, not the hebei one.

urgently move the Hebei bonus to other spot. Plus, create a holdable area also in the Southeast area.

this has the advantage that not every small bonus will be in the north, so someone who starts in the south can also have a chance to win.

ian.

[WidowMakers]

i think 2 or 3 armies for the jinan neutral will be better than 1.

almost quench time, except for something that was the direct result of replacing the yin-yang symbols by the three emblems: the republic of china (taiwan) emblem is now in jiangsu! the emblems will make sense only if we move the middle one to taiwan (taipei, northern taiwan, to be precise).

this will change gameplay. it makes a small holdable area in the south (guangdong-fujian-taiwan) with a bonus of 1 for holding two emblems, like the one suggested by marvaddin, although it's the jiangsu bonus that needs to be moved, not the hebei one.

urgently move the Hebei bonus to other spot. Plus, create a holdable area also in the Southeast area.

this has the advantage that not every small bonus will be in the north, so someone who starts in the south can also have a chance to win.

ian.

Sounds good to me. I can easily change the images and XML as long as Wisse approves it.

WM

[Sir. Ricco]

It’s looking good, but I think the impassable need some work. They just don't graphically match the map.

[WidowMakers]

It’s looking good, but I think the impassable need some work. They just don't graphically match the map.

I don't think these will change. The map was basically done a while back but Wisse did not have the time to change the little things to get it finished. That is why I took over. To get it done. All of these thing have been addressed.

And I disagree with the statement that the impassibles don't fit the theme.
I feel they fit the map and they have been around FOREVER already without issue.

So I don't think a rework of the impassible graphics will be done.

Andy or any other Carto, can we get a ruling on this map please? Not asking for quench yet just a ruling on furthure development to quench.


WM

[WidowMakers]

Can I get a CA or Andy to look over this. I really only think the matter of the starting neutral territory (Shandong) army count (1,2 or 3) is what we need to discuss. Once that is decided the XML can be updated and we are ready to play

WM

[zunzee]

i think 2 or 3 armies for the jinan neutral will be better than 1.

almost quench time, except for something that was the direct result of replacing the yin-yang symbols by the three emblems: the republic of china (taiwan) emblem is now in jiangsu! the emblems will make sense only if we move the middle one to taiwan (taipei, northern taiwan, to be precise).

this will change gameplay. it makes a small holdable area in the south (guangdong-fujian-taiwan) with a bonus of 1 for holding two emblems, like the one suggested by marvaddin, although it's the jiangsu bonus that needs to be moved, not the hebei one.

urgently move the Hebei bonus to other spot. Plus, create a holdable area also in the Southeast area.

this has the advantage that not every small bonus will be in the north, so someone who starts in the south can also have a chance to win.

ian.

Sounds good to me. I can easily change the images and XML as long as Wisse approves it.

WM

I personally think that the emblem of Taiwan should remain in Jiangsu, as the old capital of Republic of China was in Nanjing, and keeping the holdable areas separate is will avoid cluster in the Southeast area. If we keep things the same, the Nanjing bonus should be upped to 5.

Another one of my personal suggestion/opinion on this map relates to teh North: to make the bridge connecting Henan to Hebei connect to Shanxi instead, and up the bonus of Beijing to 3. Keep the holdable symbol in Hebei. Also, create an impassable border between Jilin and Nei Mongo, as the Shenyang bonus, with 3 territories, 3 borders, giving 2 bonus, is unfair comparing to Chengdu, which has 4 territories, 2 borders, and gives a 3 bonus.

[Wisse]

i think 2 or 3 armies for the jinan neutral will be better than 1.

almost quench time, except for something that was the direct result of replacing the yin-yang symbols by the three emblems: the republic of china (taiwan) emblem is now in jiangsu! the emblems will make sense only if we move the middle one to taiwan (taipei, northern taiwan, to be precise).

this will change gameplay. it makes a small holdable area in the south (guangdong-fujian-taiwan) with a bonus of 1 for holding two emblems, like the one suggested by marvaddin, although it's the jiangsu bonus that needs to be moved, not the hebei one.

urgently move the Hebei bonus to other spot. Plus, create a holdable area also in the Southeast area.

this has the advantage that not every small bonus will be in the north, so someone who starts in the south can also have a chance to win.

ian.

ok to me but i putted one icon there because there was shanghai so if possible we could have 4 icons, (keep te bonuses the same) but i can't find an icon of shanghai

also if you could make the neutral 2 armys it would be good

[Wisse]

I personally think that the emblem of Taiwan should remain in Jiangsu, as the old capital of Republic of China was in Nanjing, and keeping the holdable areas separate is will avoid cluster in the Southeast area. If we keep things the same, the Nanjing bonus should be upped to 5.

Another one of my personal suggestion/opinion on this map relates to teh North: to make the bridge connecting Henan to Hebei connect to Shanxi instead, and up the bonus of Beijing to 3. Keep the holdable symbol in Hebei. Also, create an impassable border between Jilin and Nei Mongo, as the Shenyang bonus, with 3 territories, 3 borders, giving 2 bonus, is unfair comparing to Chengdu, which has 4 territories, 2 borders, and gives a 3 bonus.

i suggested in my previous post that we could have 2 icons so i think it isn't needed to upp the bonus to 5

i agree that changing the bridge would be good, but a 3 bonus for 3 countrys is to much, keep the bonus as it is, because if you have the purple and the bleu area you have pretty much bonus otherwise that would be to overpowered, also i am not sure if an impassable border is needed there

[snapdoodle]

It took me a minute to realize they were mountains. They looked like sand traps with drop shadows.

Not to impede you progress. Sorry.

[hulmey]

yeah , i agree. appears to be aline of cocaine!

[Wisse]

i can look if i can make some other mountains, but i am not saying it will be done, unless i make other mountains these stay (and even if i make other ones the left one still stays) i could even do it when it is quenched, it doesn't affect the gameplay

[WidowMakers]

Just to let everyone know.
I took over this map with the understanding that I would not be changing to overall look.
Wisse has been busy and I wanted to get the map out he just has not had time to make the final small adjustments which is why I said I would

I will not be doing any more graphical edits.
I volunteered to do gameplay tweaks, border changes and bonus adjustments.

If the foundry feel the need for graphics update (I don't know why the mountains are coming up now they have been this way for months) I will hand the map back to Wisse and stop working.

I have lots of things to do and don't want to turn this into a full time map for myself.

WM

[WidowMakers]

So what is going on here?

I would like a CA to come in and evaluate the map and its issues or progress.

Plus, am I making other changes? Again ONLY GAMEPLAY. I am not editing graphics or style at all. I want people to talk and agree on changes before I go make a whole bunch again only to redo them over.

List you issues with gameplay and start the discussion.

Thanks
WM