D-Day: Omaha Beach! [Quenched]

by **Coleman** on Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:39 pm

mibi wrote:ah ok.. i thought cairns put the poll there since he responded to someone about it... like throwing up a poll and then saying, " can't quench while a poll is active"

Yeah, in the future assume I'd never let him do that. :lol:

I can see how you thought that, I should have posted about adding the poll, that was my mistake.

by **AndyDufresne** on Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:43 pm

For future general reference, mods most likely won't ever add a poll to a topic without discussing it with the thread starter first.

--Andy

by **mibi** on Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:04 pm

cairnswk wrote:
mibi wrote:
sorry cairns, the issue i have with this map in the foundry is that I will make changes people ask, post large and small images with xml, and the thread will just sit there for days or even weeks with no comment from mods or quenching, then someone randomly comes by and says "you should do XYZ" and the process starts all over again, this are argues over, and eventually fixed, but still the thread sits and waits with no official comment and no general discussion. If the powers that be want something fixes they need to speak up and say so, rather than let a map rot for at one point 20 days. If no one comments for 2-3 weeks you would think the map is good to go, but not this one for some reason.

I think qwert sees this and how your maps cairns seem to breeze through the foundry, actually sticking to the old 'if no one comments for 2 days rule' while others are held to some much longer standard.

It's not like i haven't satisfied a vast majority of the foundry in each of my updates with this map. It seems each update just satisfies one extra person, which is frustrating and pointless, and no how the foundry should work.

Thanks mibi for responding.

Firstly, I'd like to say this to remind some of you about something.
I don't and unless i am mistaken, other mods don't (but i can't speak for Andy since we haven't discussed the issue) get paid for doing this job.
It is done under the auspices of "volunteerism", reminding you that volunteers do work because they like and enjoy the association it brings with the work.

As such, you have no right to expect any volunteer to act in the same capacity as someone would if they were in a paid position doing the job full-time. As you are all aware, time gets away with us all, we all have other RL issues to deal with, and not everyone can answer all of our questions as immediately as we would all like. Even with this wonderful thing we call the Internet, i still have to get some sleep, so you do and everyone else, and unfortunately we just happen to be in a different time zone.

Now, i can't speak for Andy, and I won't speak for Keyogi, but i do think IMHO, if these people aren't/weren't getting paid for being on the job 8/24, then perhaps your expectations are a little high.

Next let me go back and as futile an exercise it might be, i am going to examine your thread mibi, and just see what happened from the time you got Final Forged.

**************************************
FF occurred 19 May

At that very time, you hulmey and Coleman were discussing the german VS the allies gameplay, and the in and outs of hulmey making d:day.

the very next day, the subject changed to siege.

on 24 may, coleman said he felt the map was ready, and was retorted by hulmey re mibi saying he was going to make some changes to legend and debate over the german bonuses.

keyogi joined the debate on may 26 about german bonuses and agreed with hulmey. dim called for play testing the same day.

may 27, call for distinguishment of red numbers and lines against the green background by Optimus Prime - no answer, you were out of country.

May 30, dapper tom asked about names of allied landing craft.

Mibi returns June 6 and launches into tirade with dim's comments. Keyogi suggests more game play testing, as he is still not happy with bonuses, neither is hulmey. mibi offers bonus suggestion, but no move on german grassland bonus.

9 june, kawg of war says bonuses way too high.

no comments then until 14 june, when qwert offers that the cc community must approve bonuses because he too has problems with them.

15 june mibi repeats bonus offer previously raised.

after 3 yes votes and i objection, mibi updates bonuses on 20 june with new map updates.

coleman last posts update for xml and xml test on 20 june.

no further comments from anyone until 3 july...not even mibi....that's a whole fortnight...where was mibi at this stage...what was everyone else doing.
at the same time, there was no offer of army shadow maps, or links from the mapmakers to show they were ready to go to quench.

army test maps erected 9 july by coleman...and bonuses raised again on 11 july.

12 july mibi and qwert discuss german panzers name inclusion.
mibi Changes: USS bayfield to USS texas and post new maps.

coleman posts links to maps on 14 july.

19 july. colourblind call for red numbers on green background to change. this debate continues to 5 aug from various quarters...when mibi posts a fix plus pic of new bub.

i enter discussion on 5 aug with number reading issue....follwoed by variouos discussion with others...andy enter on 12 aug and offers they are as celar as they can get...12 aug mibi offers 15% enlargemtn for the cairnsighted and posts new maps.

13 aug...questions on names and fonts....

17 aug mibi posts new maps with moved bunkers...various discussion up to 19 aug when coleman apologises n for not posting new army centering.

no comments then until 4 september....a whole 17 days.

5 sep...andy calls for image with xml on it, and keyogi raises bonus issue
again on behalf of foundry. various discussion ensue....i offer Quench on 8 sep top get the thing moving that way.

hulmey calls for poll on 9 sep on bonus issue "to settle it that way"

10 sep debate over "Should one or two Forge members be able to hold up a map because they disagree with majority as well as the map makers?"
coleman replies "Technically yes. Those two could actually represent 10 to 20% of the actual player base, which is significant. The redundancy does tend to wear down on you after a while though."

11 sep debates still continues over the bonus issue.

19 sep poll posted to satisfy the germna bonus issue. i call for final files again, and someone obligues...

20 sep objections from hulmey about text amnd some others...poll placed (by coleman on cianrswk suggestion) to finalise the germna text numbers issue.

*************************************************

Seems to me mibi, that while there have been various bouts of support for your map, and a lot of healthy discussion which i think is normal and reasonable, you have tried but really haven't satisfied some issues from objectors at times when there could have been perfect opportunities to do so.
The two long fortnight sessions where no-one posted anything at all, would have been a perfect time to conclude some of these issues especially the bonus.

There is also the issue that some poeple are simply antongists and want to argue over the smallest issues which they think are correct. In hindsight, could things have been handled better by everyone, YES. But that is in the past, and now let's move on with no more issues....I have repeatedly called for quench and i do so again.

As to qwert's issue of favouritism, once again i say, that i get in and make the fixes when called for. I constantly keep my map in the top of the thread when i am wanting to keep the ball rolling, something which i can say that neither you or coleman appear to have done on two long ocassions. Obviously there may have been reasons from both sides for everyone's absence on the long ocassions, but can you really say that you have been anxious to get this quenched if you were prepared to let it runfor so long without moving the topic to propogate discussion.

As to the poll mibi, it is not pointless, because i know some poeple will listen to the results of a small poll, whereas they will argue the hell out of matters with the mapmakers. i've had experience on this very issue, which is why i suggested to coleman a small poll to quash that issue. If you read between the lines mibi, you'll find that i am on your side. But i also believe there have been times, when your family have taken you away from getting this map quenched and that cannot be excluded.

Having said, that, and if i get a bollocking from Andy about this then so be it, the whole last two months could have been handled much better from Keyogi and himself. However, recent discussion between the mods and Andy have you placed very firmely in line for quench, adn we are trying to get things moving again, in our capacity as volunteers.

gimme a break cairns, i am well aware that mods are volunteers, and i dont expect 24/7 service, what gives you the impression that I do. I do however expect once-every-three-week service.

Thank you for the recap of this thread, but here is what I have a problem with.

June 20

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... &start=390

1.outstanding issues were resolved
2. updated map images posted
3. xml posted
4. map rots for 3 weeks.

5. thread is exhumed by someone who wants to fix some historical inaccuracy
6. process starts all over again.

after that i lost confidence that there was anyone behind the foundry wheel in the first place.

by **Coleman** on Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:21 pm

I'm not sure it's right to hold us accountable for actions before our 'reign' so to speak. But if your intent is that we are aware of the ugly history here I think cairnswk gets it. We'll learn from it.

mibi, if you respond to my pm I guarantee good things will happen today.

by **RobinJ** on Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:24 pm

Pretty comprehensive poll anyway. I'm afraid this map has been waiting way too long in final forge - it should have been done with the last batch

by **Qwert** on Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:29 pm

I hope that these going fast like in yours Battle of Actium Map,but i dont belive,do you know how many times andy ask Small and large image and xml,and after several days without any feedback,Andy still not quench map,but in Battle of Actium Andy ask for Small and large image XML,and after

two days

he quench map.
Its look that Andy strictly follow developmental rules of two days,but only in yours map.

by **AndyDufresne** on Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:46 pm

Qwert, please don't troll in other map topics. If you've any particular gripes regarding myself, contact me via pm, or perhaps use the Foundry Process thread.

--Andy

by **reverend_kyle** on Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:20 am

Andy was here why didn't he quench.

by **ParadiceCity9** on Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:06 pm

reverend_kyle wrote:Andy was here why didn't he quench.

by **AndyDufresne** on Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:24 pm

Quenching

The Final Forge period has concluded for the D-Day: Omaha Beach! Map. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready for live play (barring any Lack vetoes).

Conquer Club, enjoy!

--Andy

by **AndyDufresne** on Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:25 pm

Do you feel there needs to be colour changes for the German text?
No, I think the red and green with the black shadows around the numbers works well.
87% [ 28 ]
Yes, the colour of German text needs to be something different.
12% [ 4 ]

Total Votes : 32

--Andy

by **DiM** on Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:50 pm

finally. congrats.

by **Gilligan** on Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:04 pm

Congrats.

by **gimil** on Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:05 pm

congratz buddy

by **unriggable** on Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:18 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Do you feel there needs to be colour changes for the German text?
No, I think the red and green with the black shadows around the numbers works well.
87% [ 28 ]
Yes, the colour of German text needs to be something different.
12% [ 4 ]

Total Votes : 32

--Andy

Love this post was after the quenching one.