TRAFALGAR [12.4.2012] QUENCHED (V65)

[Victor Sullivan]

Folks, sorry for holding the xml up, but had an op on my hand and nose to remove skin cancers, so am hoping i can get back to getting the xml completed shortly. I don't see (m)any requiring anymore to the graphics.

No worries. It's unfortunate to hear about your having skin cancer I hope you're feeling okay. Let me know if I can do anything to help!

-Sully

[natty dread]

Whoa, skin cancer? That sucks. Get well soon cairns.

[cairnswk]

Whoa, skin cancer? That sucks. Get well soon cairns.

Much appreciated Natty

[natty dread]

And while I'm here, I might as well leave some comments on the map, maybe they'll be useful when you get back to working on it...

To be totally honest, the map seems a bit complicated... all those lines crisscrossing the map, seems a bit cluttered, with no easy visual cues... it's a bit hard to read, I can't see what connects where with a glance, and it's hard to visualize the connections.

That said, I think the gameplay is interesting, so I think you should concentrate on doing whatever you can to make the map as easy to read as possible.

One thing that comes to mind is, making the sea background contrast more to the ships & other gameplay elements. Currently, the whole map is really uniform wrt. colour, tone, lightness etc. with not much contrast anywhere. I've always felt that contrast is the best way to achieve gameplay clarity - contrast between different elements, organizing the elements in order of importance...

Anyway, maybe you could try increasing the contrast between the background and the playable elements - if you like the current theme, you could make the sea even lighter, and make the colours even stronger and maybe a bit darker. Alternatively, you could try making the sea darker, and making all the elements - attack routes, names, ships etc. - lighter than it. I personally think this would be the better choice.

Another thing... you could add some drop shadow to the legend (mainly thinking of the ship & sail on the left, although it might be best to apply it to all of the legend for consistency) to pop it up a bit from the background.

Anyway, keep up the good work. It's an interesting project for sure.

[cairnswk]

^^^^ natty...thanks for the feedback...appreciated.
I have done those suggestions as below only on the small version. Let's see if others agree/disagree.

Also, if you can't follow the gameplay or it's not easily idenitifable, does the legend bit about....

THE NATIONS INVOLVED
British Vs French & Spanish

...need to change?

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

Well I'd say the darker sea does wonders for the map. Well done. The drop shadow also looks good.

No, the legend is fine... the rules are clear. It was just the visual look of the map that was confusing... which is much better now.

Only nitpick: the red dotted lines don't show up too well - not as well as the yellow & blue ones. Maybe you could make them a bit darker?

[cairnswk]

Well I'd say the darker sea does wonders for the map. Well done. The drop shadow also looks good.

No, the legend is fine... the rules are clear. It was just the visual look of the map that was confusing... which is much better now.

Good.

Only nitpick: the red dotted lines don't show up too well - not as well as the yellow & blue ones. Maybe you could make them a bit darker?

How are those lines now...you might have to f5 to renew the cache.

[natty dread]

Better...

[DiM]

i like the darker sea too.

PS: this should be in FF

[isaiah40]

Here is my first (and hopefully only) nitpick:

Here you have the rope just end. Can you either: 1. make the end of the rope look like it is frayed a little, or 2. continue the rope all the way around? I think it look great with the former.

Also you have the "cloth" showing under the rigging, while the "The King's Victory" text goes over top of the rigging. Perhaps you can bring that piece of "cloth" over top of the rigging, in that way the text won't be hard to read if you place it under the rigging.

[natty dread]

Ooh, hey! Make a knot there!

[cairnswk]

Here is my first (and hopefully only) nitpick:

Here you have the rope just end. Can you either: 1. make the end of the rope look like it is frayed a little, or 2. continue the rope all the way around? I think it look great with the former.

Ooh, hey! Make a knot there!

Guys, thanks for the input. A couple of things here:
1. it was never part of my intention to continue the border rope right around the map. It is there to highlight the legend only and provide a frame of sorts.
2. I have had a look at back splicing on mooring lines and other ropes, and it is indeed intricate and interwoven
3. because that rope is only 6 pixels wide it is hard to do anything with it that makes any sort of difference other than it enlarging the rope in that area and that enlargement being very distracting to the eye.
3. I am NOT in favour of putting any sort of knot in the end, because it would become too distrcting on the overall rope scheme/theme.
4. because the rope makes the border "neat and tidy" it would be inconsistent with the rest of the look.

My offer is to fray the end slightly (if you can see it) and add a small metal gray clamp (same treatment as the cannon) to the end of the rope. For me this is not too distracting.

Also you have the "cloth" showing under the rigging, while the "The King's Victory" text goes over top of the rigging. Perhaps you can bring that piece of "cloth" over top of the rigging, in that way the text won't be hard to read if you place it under the rigging.

this one is totally acheiveable and works.

Version 54.
Small

Click image to enlarge.

Large

Click image to enlarge.

[isaiah40]

Okay, I can handle the rope the way you have it now. Thanks! I'll look at it some more later.

[cairnswk]

Small XML

Click image to enlarge.

[Victor Sullivan]

Santa Ana, Defiance, Royal Sovereign Stern: Down 1 px, left 1 px.
Fougueux, S.J.: Down 1 px.
F4, F5, Montanes: Right 1 px.

Santa Ana and Defiance may only need to go down 1 px, instead of down and left - use your best judgement.

-Sully

[cairnswk]

^^ thanks Sully.

OK, i have a gameplay question that i've got to ask (looking at it while doing the xml)...
The French Lee line is very linear all the way from Neptune to Berwick to Pluton...i am wondering if it would make for stronger gameplay if i moved (B) Achilles left so that i could make a connection line with small intermediary boat from (F) Swiftsure to (F) Berwick. I simply think that it would complete a circle of strength in there for the french, as the Britsh and Spanish seem to have good balance of strength in the Lee Line.

This would make this:
British (W) 14
French (W) 10
Spanish (W) 8
Weather Neutrals 8
-------------------
British (L) 16
French (L) 10
Spanish (L) 10
Lee Neutrals 21

Total territories 96.

In effect the neutral starts for (if my math is correct - my math was correct but has been altered below)
Weather would be: 8 + 6 (2 each for each flagship) + 2 (for Britannia & Spartiate) = not 14, but 16
Lee would be: 21 + 6 = 27.
(not 14) 16 + 27 = 43
So 96 - 43 = 53 which is now one of the golden numbers (52, 53, 57, 58, 59)

Any suggestion welcome.

[cairnswk]

^^ Nobody wants to have a go at this one?

[MarshalNey]

I do, but not tonight. Still trying to catch up.

[DiM]

^^ thanks Sully.

OK, i have a gameplay question that i've got to ask (looking at it while doing the xml)...
The French Lee line is very linear all the way from Neptune to Berwick to Pluton...i am wondering if it would make for stronger gameplay if i moved (B) Achilles left so that i could make a connection line with small intermediary boat from (F) Swiftsure to (F) Berwick. I simply think that it would complete a circle of strength in there for the french, as the Britsh and Spanish seem to have good balance of strength in the Lee Line.

This would make this:
British (W) 14
French (W) 10
Spanish (W) 8
Weather Neutrals 8
-------------------
British (L) 16
French (L) 10
Spanish (L) 10
Lee Neutrals 21

Total territories 96.

In effect the neutral starts for (if my math is correct)
Weather would be: 8 + 6 (2 each for each flagship) = 14
Lee would be: 21 + 6 = 27.
14+ 27 = 41
So 96 - 41 = 55 which is not one of the golden numbers (52, 53, 57, 58, 59)

Any suggestion welcome.

ok so after spending a few minutes looking at the wrong achilles i finally realised my mistake and everything started to make a bit more sense )
i agree that the french lee line is too linear and that something might be done. while i do agree with your solution if you chose it, i also might have an alternative.
just move F9 a bit to the left and connect swiftsure to that.

also, S2 seems rather useless. it's not part of any bonus and it connects to the same ships as SF which is part of a bonus. so why would anybody bother to take S2 when taking SF does a better job? if i have san leonardo and san augustin i will never attack S2, instead i'll go for SF.

and one last thing. i didn't count all the ships on the map but i noticed you said there are 14 neutral terits on the water line. i count 16. 8 intermediary vessels, 6 from flagships and 2 from britannia and spartiate.
so if you take those last 2 into account and assuming you counted everything else correct, then your starting terit count becomes 53 (golden number)

[cairnswk]

thanks DiM, i understand. Let's see if others have any opinion.

[MarshalNey]

OK after looking at this (and like Dim, at the wrong Achilles at first... there's a doppleganger Swiftsure nearby that attracts the eye) it seems that Dim's count is correct, if your map of the neutrals is accurate then Britannia and Spartiate should be included in your total, and there are indeed only 53 deployable regions which is golden.

As for the thought on the French Lee Line, if you didn't want to modify the map at all, and thought that the Fleet bonus was more challenging than the other two, you could always just bump up the bonus a bit (just throwing that option out there as well). Otherwise, either yours or Dim's suggestion would work, although I'm not terribly keen on crisscrossing more lines or crowding it more, it really wouldn't hurt the map's clarity. Another alternative might be to make a direct connection without an intermediary (although I'm not sure if that messes with the history of the battle...)

The Algesiras flagship might also be used as a connection for a 'circle of strength', either with Fougueux or Swiftsure with some maneuvering of course.

-- Marshal Ney

[cairnswk]

OK after looking at this (and like Dim, at the wrong Achilles at first... there's a doppleganger Swiftsure nearby that attracts the eye) it seems that Dim's count is correct, if your map of the neutrals is accurate then Britannia and Spartiate should be included in your total, and there are indeed only 53 deployable regions which is golden.

As for the thought on the French Lee Line, if you didn't want to modify the map at all, and thought that the Fleet bonus was more challenging than the other two, you could always just bump up the bonus a bit (just throwing that option out there as well). Otherwise, either yours or Dim's suggestion would work, although I'm not terribly keen on crisscrossing more lines or crowding it more, it really wouldn't hurt the map's clarity. Another alternative might be to make a direct connection without an intermediary (although I'm not sure if that messes with the history of the battle...)

The Algesiras flagship might also be used as a connection for a 'circle of strength', either with Fougueux or Swiftsure with some maneuvering of course.

-- Marshal Ney

MarshalNey, thanks for your input.
Yes, i can see where DiM obtains his "golden number" from and i agree. my error

I have tried to capture the battle well under way where the Lee line was well involved and the Weather Line was "still getting there", hence there is more confusion in the Lee Line than in the Weather.

The intermediary vessels were the answer to having long distances between the major ships, since it was felt that to connect with a friendly ship was feasible in short distances, but longer distances would require the intermediary vessel...hence they were added to the map.

Using Algesiras and altering the mix around (F) Swiftsure, Bahamas and Colossus requires too great a movement and affects that whole area around Tonnant.

I kind of like DiM's solution to lose S2 between San Augustin and San Leonardo, so that the line and extra Intermediary can be added between (F) Swiftsure and (F) Berwick. Yes it adds another line and intermediary, but then that whole bottom section is confused and i don't really see it being a bother, but mainly will add extra strength to the French Lee line.
The other consideration is that this option also allows all the other sections of strength to remain in place.

The extra bonus would also be a good option but it does nothing for fortification connections in the french lee line.

New version being posted shortly.

[cairnswk]

Version 55

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

[zimmah]

looks like a fun map, bit confusing tho.

[cairnswk]

looks like a fun map, bit confusing tho.

Yes i agree it's a bit confusing, but think how the sailors in the battle felt
To this end, i will post these 3 images below (on front page of thread) that might help players.

British

Click image to enlarge.

French

Click image to enlarge.

Spanish

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