Re: WWI: Gallipoli [9.9.15] V39 (p22) [Quenched]

by **Dukasaur** on Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:06 pm

Gaba Tepe is probably the weakest of the starting batteries. Gendarmerie, however, can be very dominant, depending on how many players are in the game. Even if all your opponents plan to remove you from Gendarmerie, if they have to attack each other while moving forward it may happen that none of them reaches you.

Even in 1v1, while one often loses Gendarmerie, the opportunity cost that the opponent suffers in having to throw everything against it is often the deciding factor. Gendarmerie is definitely not weak as a strategic asset.

by **Armandolas** on Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:43 am

Not sure if i tottally agree Dukasaur. It depends really much on the drop, On how many ships u get in the northm how many regions in the south of thee map, who holds L06 and turn order, etc.
I find it "easier to get gendarmerie than kum kale(due to the amount of troops in play)

What i think its really "out of play its MS1,2,3. Most of the time they become really unusefull. I Wish i could figure a way to make them more usefull.
Why not make them bombard a couple of regions?

by **loutil** on Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:48 pm

Armandolas wrote:Not sure if i tottally agree Dukasaur. It depends really much on the drop, On how many ships u get in the northm how many regions in the south of thee map, who holds L06 and turn order, etc.
I find it "easier to get gendarmerie than kum kale(due to the amount of troops in play)

What i think its really "out of play its MS1,2,3. Most of the time they become really unusefull. I Wish i could figure a way to make them more usefull.
Why not make them bombard a couple of regions?

MS1,2 and 3 are not the problem. It is the auto resets in front of them that creates the issue. If MS4,5,6,7,8 and 9 were plus 1 auto deploys you could reload through them 3-4 turns after you blasted through the first time. As it is now, they are a one time use then a total waste.
As for the value of Gendamerie, I believe it is very limited no matter what the drop. I have won 18 out of 19 games on this map and Gendamerie was never in the strategy. Every team that I have played that tried to load and focus at that spot got beat.

by **waauw** on Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:29 pm

my god, love this map. Is definitely gonna become one of my favorites.

by **geko** on Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:57 am

This map has a lot of potential and i like the play of it when I get into a deeper game. But it has a lot of opportunity for really uneven play due to the drop and who goes first.

If a player has Gendarmarie or Kum Kale and goes first they have a big advantage. They have no neutral to attack before they can bombard and to take them out there are always neutrals to go through.

by **waauw** on Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:23 pm

geko wrote:This map has a lot of potential and i like the play of it when I get into a deeper game. But it has a lot of opportunity for really uneven play due to the drop and who goes first.

If a player has Gendarmarie or Kum Kale and goes first they have a big advantage. They have no neutral to attack before they can bombard and to take them out there are always neutrals to go through.

I dissagree. Starting first has very little influence in my opinion. The one who holds Gendarmerie and Kum kale both at the start of the game on the other hand does have somewhat of an advantage.

by **PereiroSaus** on Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:49 am

I agree on the auto reset problem behind ms1-3. Lowering mines to n1 would differ.
Making ms1-3 more interesting could also be reached bij giving the landing routes an extra early landing point, so they would indirectly connect to the isolated areas which are assigned to players in the initial drop on the surrounding coast.
This might however lead to the possibility of an early lucky elimination, so it probably implicates changes in the coast setup too.

by **waauw** on Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:16 pm

so I've been reading through the last page. Are there going to be any additional +1 auto's to the MS-landingships?

by **blakebowling** on Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:32 am

Someone quench this map, eh?

by **Keefie** on Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:16 am

blakebowling wrote:Someone quench this map, eh?

Damn right Blake. It's ready.

by **waauw** on Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:48 am

blakebowling wrote:Someone quench this map, eh?

The issue with MS1-3/Mines is still not solved.

by **Keefie** on Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:32 am

Perfection is not required, this is a great map that is ready for release. Anything else is just tinkering.

by **Doc_Brown** on Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:59 am

I would agree. The map is already excellent. You could change the mines to N1 to make those areas more interesting, but that should be it. Don't go changing the map at this point. Get this one quenched!

by **waauw** on Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:24 am

Very well, since we've got several pro-quenching people now I'll suggest the issue internally.
I'll follow up with an update on this later.

by **JamesKer1** on Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:57 pm

waauw wrote:Very well, since we've got several pro-quenching people now I'll suggest the issue internally.
I'll follow up with an update on this later.

Good to hear sir! I'm very excited. Now that I've won quite a few games on the map I'm really starting to love it :lol:

by **waauw** on Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:38 pm

pm has been sent to cairnswk to make some minor tweaks.

iancanton wrote:cairns

more than a few players want to see this map quenched soon.

are u in a position to do a few changes to let this happen? our plan is that this will be the final version, if all goes well.

kk beach: n7 to n6 (xml change)
m4 and m5: add +1 auto-deploy (xml change and 1-character graphics change)
nibruseni point: to nibrunesi point (2-character graphics change)
kiretch tepe: lower the final e a touch on the small map

ian.

by **iancanton** on Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:02 pm

in 20 2-player games with unlimited forts but otherwise standard settings (Game 15806373 to Game 15848827 inclusive), player 1 won 13 (65%), player 2 won 7 (35%), the higher-ranked player won only 8 (40%) and the lower-ranked player, strangely, won 12 (60%). those who started with kum kale or gaba tepe won more than they lost, while those starting with gendarmerie lost more than they won. in these games, having the first move was slightly more significant than initial possession of any particular battery in determining the winner.

ian.

by **cairnswk** on Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:30 am

iancanton wrote:cairns

more than a few players want to see this map quenched soon.

are u in a position to do a few changes to let this happen? our plan is that this will be the final version, if all goes well.

kk beach: n7 to n6 (xml change)
m4 and m5: add +1 auto-deploy (xml change and 1-character graphics change)
nibruseni point: to nibrunesi point (2-character graphics change)
kiretch tepe: lower the final e a touch on the small map

ian.

Adjustment made in images and xml file below.

Are the images checked for army location centering? Checked. Good to go!

V39 Small

V39L

by **Dukasaur** on Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:51 pm

You should drop by more often....

by **iancanton** on Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:45 pm

in testing v39 on the beta site for bugs, we've discovered that the bonus legend, on the small map only, refers to autodeply instead of autodeploy. the ms4 and ms5 auto-deploys currently have no bonus attached to them in the xml.

can u amend the v38 starting positions image to show kk beach being reduced to n6 for v39?

ian.

by **iancanton** on Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:37 pm

the corrected v39 xml is live!

ian.

by **iancanton** on Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:29 pm

in 20 2-player fog games with no spoils and chained forts but otherwise standard settings (Game 15839788 to Game 15905953 inclusive, excluding 4 games where one player deadbeated without playing any moves), player 1 won 14 (70%), player 2 won 6 (30%), the higher-ranked player won 17 (85%) and the lower-ranked player won 3 (15%). those who started with gaba tepe won more than they lost, while those starting with gendarmerie or kum kale lost more than they won. in these games, being a higher-ranked player was even more significant in determining the winner than having the first move, while initial possession of a particular battery had seemingly little effect. these games all finished before v39 went live.

ian.

by **iancanton** on Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:13 pm

games started from 9 september onward used the v39 xml.

in 20 2-player sunny games with escalating spoils and unlimited forts but otherwise standard settings for the v39 xml (Game 15954790 to Game 16008728 inclusive), player 1 won 11 (55%), player 2 won 9 (45%), the higher-ranked player won 11 (55%) and the lower-ranked player won 9 (45%). those who started with gendarmerie (65%) or kum kale (60%) won more than they lost, while those starting with gabe tepe (45%) won fewer than they lost. in these games, possession of gendarmerie or kum kale had a slightly greater effect than being a higher-ranked player or having the first move, but not enough to be significant.

the v39 changes have not only permitted the minesweepers to play a greater part in the game, but have done so without having adverse effects elsewhere. gameplay looks solid now.

Quenching

---the final forge period has concluded for the WWI Gallipoli map. all objections have had their time. the foundry and i hereby brand this map with the foundry brand. let it be known that this map is now ready for live play (barring any vetoes from bigWham).

conquer club, enjoy!

ian.