Good Morning Woodboro (V7.X) -- Home for the Holidays

[Evil DIMwit]

Increasing the sponsors value isn't a bad idea.

I dunno, I feel like by the time you get to conquering sponsors the games will move fast enough that having to wait three turns to break even on your troop investment (assuming a 1:1 troop loss in the assault) wouldn't be worth it -- but two might. I'm keeping it 4 for now unless someone wants to prove me wrong with some math.

Click image to enlarge.

[Evil DIMwit]

So, uh, what's next? Any other potential improvements? Community support? Just kinda waiting around? I dunno if I can think of any major changes to make.

Edit: Woo.

[Industrial Helix]

Is there anyway to make the antennas on the Pirate Stations stand out a little more. I think once you have color coded numbers in there then it will be obvious where the starting positions are, but as it stands now, there's quite a bit of looking involved in finding the Pirate Stations (for example, the first antenna on Carlin is a bit blurred with the grass on Dean's house). Perhaps you could make them white antennas or something?

Is it really necessary that the pirate stations can one way attack the dish houses? I mean, they're right next to them...

To be honest, I think everything looks good enough on this to move on to the main foundry. The graphics are great save for a few touch ups and the gameplay seems pretty solid at this point.

[Evil DIMwit]

Is there anyway to make the antennas on the Pirate Stations stand out a little more. I think once you have color coded numbers in there then it will be obvious where the starting positions are, but as it stands now, there's quite a bit of looking involved in finding the Pirate Stations (for example, the first antenna on Carlin is a bit blurred with the grass on Dean's house). Perhaps you could make them white antennas or something?

Y'know, it so happens I don't fully like representing the pirates with extra antennas but sadly I haven't found any way better to make them distinct in their outline from all of the regular houses (I tried the antennas in white and believe me it didn't look better). However it should be the color that really distinguishes pirates from all of the rest so unless someone thinks there's a problem it doesn't seem too bad that all the antennas on Carlin and Klein aren't as visible as they could be.

Is it really necessary that the pirate stations can one way attack the dish houses? I mean, they're right next to them...

You see, each pirate station can also connect to the dish house away from it, forming a bridge that goes over the lake in the middle thus taking some pressure off Grass Land and Slaydio (though to be fair this extension's a lot more significant going from Carlin to Roma than going from Klein to Lapid and perhaps I should just make the dishes connect to each other instead).

[thenobodies80]

I don't see big problems.
This one is a nice and funny map.
A good idea, a good development....



Onward and Upward!

[MrBenn]

I like the idea of this, but am struggling to get my head around which territories are your planned starts?

For the sponsor territories, have you thought about a more industrial looking building of some description?

[Evil DIMwit]

For the sponsor territories, have you thought about a more industrial looking building of some description?

Hm. The icons currently on the map are meant to represent the sponsors' private homes, the wealthier ones in the neighborhood. Actually representing businesses is a good idea, though, and I'll see if I can put together a decent-looking picture.

I like the idea of this, but am struggling to get my head around which territories are your planned starts?

It's like this:
- Every territory is coded with a neutral value to start with except the six radio station bases and the two pirate stations
- The radio station bases are coded as a set of starting positions. We'll represent them with square brackets below, with the pirate as round brackets: [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]( )( )
- If there are more than 6 players, there aren't enough starting positions for all the players so they get ignored, and all types of stations are pooled together and each player gets one.
7: [r][g][b][y][p][c](o)(N) or [r](g)[b][y](p)[c][o][N] or [r][g][b](y)[p][c](o)[N], etc.
8: (r)(g)[b][y][p][c][o][s] or [r](g)[b][y][p][c](o)[s] or [r][g](b)(y)[p][c][o][s], etc.

- If there are 6 or fewer players, the main stations are divided evenly:
2: [r][g][r][g][r][g]( )( )
3: [r][g][b][r][g][b]( )( )
4: [r][g][b][y][ ][ ]( )( )
5: [r][g][b][y][p][ ]( )( )
6: [r][g][b][y][p][c]( )( )

In four of these situations, there aren't enough territories remaining to split up among the players, so the remainder become neutral:
2: [r][g][r][g][r][g](N)(N) (since the 'neutral player' is now considered)
3: [r][g][b][r][g][b](N)(N)
5: [r][g][b][y][p][N](N)(N)
6: [r][g][b][y][p][c](N)(N)

In 4-player games (and this is something I just noticed but I can't think of a way to fix it) the remaining four non-neutral territories get split among the four players:
4: [r][g][b][y] [r][g](b)(y) or [r][g][b] [y](r)[g][b](y) or [r][g][b][y] [r](g)(b)[y], etc.

(Each set of brackets above represents a random station, of course)

The upshot: The pirate stations both necessarily start neutral for 2,3,5, and 6-player games. Otherwise they are distributed along with the regular stations (and in a 4-player game it's impossible for one player to start with both pirate stations).

[MrBenn]

Thanks for that

The starting positions don;t quite work like that - the positions are randomly assigned to players, so there is the possibility that the same player could get both pirate stations in 2, 3 or 4 player games...

[Evil DIMwit]

The starting positions don;t quite work like that - the positions are randomly assigned to players, so there is the possibility that the same player could get both pirate stations in 2, 3 or 4 player games...

Code: Select all

<positions>
   <position>
      <territory>Slaydio</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Polka Spot</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Ball Pit</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Grass Land</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Urbanicity</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Chat Channel</territory>
   </position>
</positions>


So the regular stations should be distributed before the pirates, no?

[MrBenn]

So the regular stations should be distributed before the pirates, no?

No - the starting positions are randomly assigned. Any surplus are then put into the standard pot to be dished out, unless they are coded as underlying neutral starts.

[Evil DIMwit]

So the regular stations should be distributed before the pirates, no?

No - the starting positions are randomly assigned. Any surplus are then put into the standard pot to be dished out, unless they are coded as underlying neutral starts.

So much I understand; that implies that the program's process is:
A) Randomly assign as many starting positions as possible to the players such that every player gets an equal amount
B) Put the surplus of these into the standard pot
C) Divide the standard pot equally among the number of players (or the number of players plus 1 for 2-player games)
D) Make the remainder neutral

Is this inaccurate?

[Evil DIMwit]

As far as sponsors go, what do people think of this for more commercial icons:


Or alternatively a more industrial ground:

[isaiah40]

Second one would be better IMO.

[targetman377]

the last one is better easier to see where they are.

[Teflon Kris]

Starting Positions

Would it work if:

* The 6 legal stations are start positions

* The 2 pirate stations are set as normal territories to be dished-out

* Everything else is coded neutral.

I would imagine that in this scenario:

* In 1-6 player games the pirates start neutral since 2 territories cant be shared out (remainder 2 start neutral). So everyone gets a share of the legal stations (1,2 or 3).

* In 7-8 player games there aren't enough starting positions so they get thrown in the 'pot', along with the 2 pirate stations, making 8 teritories to be shared-out - 1 each (1 remainder being neutral in 7-player games).

Objective

The first post suggests the objective might be to hold 5 of the 6 legal stations? If so, whack in a one-liner for the wannabe air-wave comtrollers. Holding 5 of the 6 stations is pretty much a guarantee of winning - a bit like the Europe 1914 or Peloponnesian War objectives - and so maybe not necessary?


General Gameplay

Single-territory starts reduce player 1 advantages (and that it is not realistically possible to attack an oppoment first turn) - the more turns the players are kept apart the more any advantage diminishes, The only trouble could be in trips or quads where teams load up one player to take out aN opponent quickly - however, this wouldn't be an issue unique to this map.

Advancing in the game would most likely revolve around holding sponsors and pirate stations - and timing when to attack them. With legal stations being protected behind neutrals, player 1 may be able to hain an advantage by taking a pirate and leaving all his/her troops there? It would probably be risky though. Hmmm. What do you think?

It would all be much different in 7/8 player games as the pirate stations would be closer to sponsors, but also easy to attack at the start of the game. I imagine gameplay for 7/8 players wouldn't be as good as for fewer players, but a drawback I would like to think can be accepted given the uniqueness of the map as a small base-style map.

[Evil DIMwit]

Starting Positions

Would it work if:

* The 6 legal stations are start positions

* The 2 pirate stations are set as normal territories to be dished-out

* Everything else is coded neutral.

I would imagine that in this scenario:

* In 1-6 player games the pirates start neutral since 2 territories cant be shared out (remainder 2 start neutral). So everyone gets a share of the legal stations (1,2 or 3).

* In 7-8 player games there aren't enough starting positions so they get thrown in the 'pot', along with the 2 pirate stations, making 8 teritories to be shared-out - 1 each (1 remainder being neutral in 7-player games).

That's essentially what I described above; I'm waiting to Benn to confirm whether or not this would work.

Objective

The first post suggests the objective might be to hold 5 of the 6 legal stations? If so, whack in a one-liner for the wannabe air-wave comtrollers. Holding 5 of the 6 stations is pretty much a guarantee of winning - a bit like the Europe 1914 or Peloponnesian War objectives - and so maybe not necessary?

Pretty much dropped the objective. No need to overcomplicate things.

[thenobodies80]

So the regular stations should be distributed before the pirates, no?

No - the starting positions are randomly assigned. Any surplus are then put into the standard pot to be dished out, unless they are coded as underlying neutral starts.

So much I understand; that implies that the program's process is:
A) Randomly assign as many starting positions as possible to the players such that every player gets an equal amount
B) Put the surplus of these into the standard pot
C) Divide the standard pot equally among the number of players (or the number of players plus 1 for 2-player games)
D) Make the remainder neutral

Is this inaccurate?

No it's correct.
A)true, equally and randomly assigned to players
B)True, if not coded as an underlying neutral
C)True
D)True

But, in a 4players game, with 6 SP, 2 standard regions and everything else neutral.

A) each player will receive 1 SP
B)2 SP will be put in the standard drop
C)4 regions in the pot for 4 players --> 1 for each player no neutral

in a 4 player game each player will start with 2 regions, so pirate stations aren't assigned only in 8 players games and a player could start with 2 pirate stations...maybe this is what Mr.Benn was referring to...

Nobodies

[Teflon Kris]

But, in a 4players game, with 6 SP, 2 standard regions and everything else neutral.

A) each player will receive 1 SP
B)2 SP will be put in the standard drop
C)4 regions in the pot for 4 players --> 1 for each player no neutral

in a 4 player game each player will start with 2 regions, so pirate stations aren't assigned only in 8 players games and a player could start with 2 pirate stations...maybe this is what Mr.Benn was referring to...

Nobodies

If the normal stations were SPs then in this 4-player scenario, wouldn't each player get 1 SP & their 2nd region being either a SP or a pirate? If the pirates were the SPs then one player could get both in 4P games.

Either way, it is a good point, pirates would enter the popular 4-player format (incl. 4P Dubs) - ouch !

[thenobodies80]

But, in a 4players game, with 6 SP, 2 standard regions and everything else neutral.

A) each player will receive 1 SP
B)2 SP will be put in the standard drop
C)4 regions in the pot for 4 players --> 1 for each player no neutral

in a 4 player game each player will start with 2 regions, so pirate stations aren't assigned only in 8 players games and a player could start with 2 pirate stations...maybe this is what Mr.Benn was referring to...

Nobodies

In this 4-player scenario wouldnt each player get 1 SP & their 2nd region being either a SP or a pirate?

Either way, it is a good point, pirates would enter the popular 4-player format (incl. 4P Dubs) - ouch !

yes, 1SP and 1 pirate
Sorry

[Evil DIMwit]

Either way, it is a good point, pirates would enter the popular 4-player format (incl. 4P Dubs) - ouch !

I guess there'd be a 1/3 chance of one team holding both pirates. I'm not quite sure if that's a problem, though, and if it is, how to fix it.

[Aalmeida17]

i like it and i wanna play it

[MrBenn]

I love the fact that starting positions mess with everybody's mind

Your description above was correct - and DJ Teflon suggested an excellent implementation of it.

So:
1. All of the "standard" territories coded as neutral
2. Pirate stations NOT coded as neutral.
3. Radio stations not coded neutral
4. The 6 Radio stations coded into start positions

This means:
2p - each player will be allocated 3 radio stations. The pirates revert to neutral as there is not enough for an even deal.
3p - each player will be allocated 2 radio stations. The pirates revert to neutral.
4p - each player will be allocated 1 radio station. The pirates enter the pot to be allocated with the surplus radio stations.
5p - each player will be allocated 1 radio station. The pirates and remaining radio station revert to neutral.
6p - each player will be allocated 1 radio station. The pirates revert to neutral.
7p - the starting positions are ignored. The pirates and radio stations are allocated, with the surplus territory going neutral.
8p - the starting positions are ignored. The pirates and radio stations are allocated; 1 to each player.

This way, no single player will ever own more than 1 pirate from the drop. There is a possibility that two players on the same team (4p/8p dubs/quads) will drop both pirates, but there's not a lot that can be done about it...

[Teflon Kris]

I'm getting the feeling that your gameplay system is acceptable despite the potential double-pirate team games possibility.

Nice work evil

[Evil DIMwit]

I guess that element's fine, then. For my next step, I'm thinking of taking a closer look at the configuration, reworking the board, maybe adding a few territories to put a bit more distance between the stations. This could take a little while but if anyone has any analysis in this direction, that would of course be appreciated.

[natty dread]

Hmm.. a few moar territories would be good IMO. Perhaps in the upper part would be the best place to add them.

Although, if you're going to redo the graphics, might I suggest starting from the large version this time... Trust me, going from small to large is a real PITA (been there)...