American Civil War [Quenched]

[cairnswk]

8th Revision

Elijah....this is looking so much better; what do you think, are you happy with this?

OK, the next step to be working towards (if there are no further objections to anything from the Foundry, assuming you will attend to or justify those issues) is the large map.

You are required to complete a large version (I wouldn't go anything wider than 800px) of this map. You may be able to simply use the re-size function to increase the size of elements on the map the large version.
The only thing you will have to re-work if you upsize this way is the size of the army shadows themsleves.

It is recommended that the army shadow circle be 24 px dia. this is unfortunately a tedious piece of the mapmaking process, however WidowMakers has completed a tutorial in Map Making Tools for the Army Circles, check there.

You need to show both maps together, with the army circle numbers on both versions.

See how you go!

[Elijah S]

I'm pleased with the progress and think this map's about's ready for final forge.

Since the height's a pretty good size, I may not go quite to 800px wide for the large map, but I'll try a few sizes before posting it.

The army circles, while yes, tedious work, should pose no problem.

Thanks for all the assistance... let's get this thing into production! I'm anxious to start kicking ass playing it!

8th Revision

Elijah....this is looking so much better; what do you think, are you happy with this?

OK, the next step to be working towards (if there are no further objections to anything from the Foundry, assuming you will attend to or justify those issues) is the large map.

You are required to complete a large version (I wouldn't go anything wider than 800px) of this map. You may be able to simply use the re-size function to increase the size of elements on the map the large version.
The only thing you will have to re-work if you upsize this way is the size of the army shadows themsleves.

It is recommended that the army shadow circle be 24 px dia. this is unfortunately a tedious piece of the mapmaking process, however WidowMakers has completed a tutorial in Map Making Tools for the Army Circles, check there.

You need to show both maps together, with the army circle numbers on both versions.

See how you go!

[cairnswk]

I'm pleased with the progress and think this map's about's ready for final forge.

Not so Elijah S, this is still some way off Final Forge.

And when it gets to Final Forge, are you ready to and or have you got someone doing the xml for you. All those coordinates don't just magically appear.

Since the height's a pretty good size, I may not go quite to 800px wide for the large map, but I'll try a few sizes before posting it.

The army circles, while yes, tedious work, should pose no problem.

Thanks for all the assistance... let's get this thing into production! I'm anxious to start kicking ass playing it!

Don't be anxious, but work methodically and take each step slowly.
I can understand you want to start using the map, but I don't think it will be ready for play for a short while yet. You could prove me wrong though.

[Elijah S]

"And when it gets to Final Forge, are you ready to and or have you got someone doing the xml for you. All those coordinates don't just magically appear."

lol... I enjoyed this. Ah, the supportive, yet somewhat biting and condescending tone.

Having written a considerable amount of web-script, including java and html, I don't think the xml should pose any particular problem for me.
-I've not only read Lack's Tutorial, but also printed out a sample of the script format.

The coordinates (army circles) are still subject to being moved, so I won't begin the xml until they are fixed.

The maps, small and large, are below.

The small map: 620px wide x 499px high.

The large map: 750px wide x 604px high.

[Elijah S]

***I just noticed I'm missing Maryland's army circle in the lg. map... I'll fix that with the next update.

[Coleman]

While you do that, some of the army circles are looking a little bit too bunched up with their territory names.

Wisconsin, Sioux Territory, and The Badlands to name a few, easy solution is to just move the army circles down a few pixels.

Speaking of Sioux territory... Sioux is an incorrect name white people gave to the Lakota. Regardless it still appears on a lot of maps and what not so if you don't care I won't bother to try and force you to change it to Lakota Territory.

[Elijah S]

Not to stray too far off topic here, but that's an interesting observation Coleman... although the name would more aptly be "Dakota" rather than Lakota...
The link below leads to a brief, but enlightening bit of Sioux history.
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/union-gene ... ndians.htm

While you do that, some of the army circles are looking a little bit too bunched up with their territory names.

Wisconsin, Sioux Territory, and The Badlands to name a few, easy solution is to just move the army circles down a few pixels.

Speaking of Sioux territory... Sioux is an incorrect name white people gave to the Lakota. Regardless it still appears on a lot of maps and what not so if you don't care I won't bother to try and force you to change it to Lakota Territory.

[Coleman]

I'm just going by what the natives call themselves. Dakota may not be right either but I don't have time to research. I do know for certain people that claim themselves to be Lakota are annoyed by being referred to as Sioux. It's possible Dakota and Lakota are two tribes that somehow fell into the same classification. But if you get really deep into it the Lakota aren't all necessarily one tribe either.

But you're right this is off topic.

Hopefully you can get the army circles a bit more away from the text so they don't look as clustered.

[Evil Pope]

Hmm.. I think that the textures may be a little too.. strong, might be a good word. Do you think softening it up a bit might make it a little easier on the eyes. A bit smoother, but not perfectly smooth?
And something about the bridges doesn't feel right.. they're nice bridges, but I feel that you could edit them a bit. The shadows of the bridges make them look like they're above the land, not connecting the two sides. If you understand what I mean, I don't think i'm being clear enough.

[cairnswk]

"And when it gets to Final Forge, are you ready to and or have you got someone doing the xml for you. All those coordinates don't just magically appear."

lol... I enjoyed this. Ah, the supportive, yet somewhat biting and condescending tone.

Having written a considerable amount of web-script, including java and html, I don't think the xml should pose any particular problem for me.
-I've not only read Lack's Tutorial, but also printed out a sample of the script format.

Elijah S. I am sorry if you think this is condescending and biting. It is simply my way of asking questions, and for all we know, you might not have the skills to do the xml..i don't know that you had already done webscript etc....And i thought it was rather resumptuous of you to announce that the map was ready for final forge...back on oct 4 post...you don't get to make those decisions.

Please don't cut off your nose despite your face, when people are only trying to help you get your map done.

[Unit_2]

i don't think this map is a good look, it looks old(like the old brazil map) and not a new map, l think that you need to give it some better grafics/text.

[Elijah S]

Coleman- I've done a little research and it appears that the area in question was considered Dakota Territory in many of the maps from that era.
I've adjusted several of the army circles and will post that in the next revision...

Pope- I've had the same thought about the texture being a bit hard; Unfortunately, with photoshop, texture affects aren't easily reversed. So what I may wind up having to do is pull a layer from a previous version (one with a lesser or no texture), drop it in the newest version and rework it altogether...

Cairnswk- Your input in this project has, and continues to be invaluable to me and greatly appreciated.
When I mentioned moving this into final forge it was largely in response to your own, very positive, comments about the progress of the map.
But the assumption that I'd spend what has been a considerable amount of time on this, and yet think that the xml would "magically appear" just kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
I do, of course, realize that I don't make the decisions on when it gets moved to the next phase, but please don't mistake my enthusiasm for the project for being anything other than that.
We've had a reasonably respectful exchange of dialog and it would be truly regretful if that dialog were to become anything less than productive.

Again, Thanks to everyone for their opinions and constructive advice.
-Elijah

[oaktown]

i don't think this map is a good look, it looks old(like the old brazil map) and not a new map, l think that you need to give it some better grafics/text.

That's a bit harsh, but I also have a general bone to pick with the look. When it comes to a historical map, I like to see the overall look to capture the era somehow. There is much about this map that does, but the colors seem too crisp and vivid. The texture you've been playing with helps a lot.

[cairnswk]

Cairnswk- Your input in this project has, and continues to be invaluable to me and greatly appreciated.
When I mentioned moving this into final forge it was largely in response to your own, very positive, comments about the progress of the map.
But the assumption that I'd spend what has been a considerable amount of time on this, and yet think that the xml would "magically appear" just kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
I do, of course, realize that I don't make the decisions on when it gets moved to the next phase, but please don't mistake my enthusiasm for the project for being anything other than that.
We've had a reasonably respectful exchange of dialog and it would be truly regretful if that dialog were to become anything less than productive.

Elijah...i appreciate your enthusiasm very much. However, it is part of my duties to ensure and assist mapmakers to try to achieve the best possible outcome for their maps and maintain the high standards that have been achieved in line with past productions.

In this respect I am always happy to assist wherever i can....and as for us having anything but respectful dialogue...that would be sheer folly on my part as a moderator if i were to allow it to disintergrate

[AndyDufresne]

Well lets see what we've got here...!


Regarding the Visuals:

I like the simplicity of this map, visual wise, though I think it still needs some work. The recently Quenched map of Portugal was a very 'simple' map to the eye, but the way it presented its simplicity felt a little more polished than this current map.

Regarding the textures, as someone mentioned...they feel a little odd. I'm not sure the 'painted wall' texture really fits this map. What other textures could you experiment with?

I'd maybe nudge some the names so they aren't so close to the army circles (I.E. Neb. on small, Badlands on small). Also you are going to have some troubles with New Hampshire and Mass.'s coordinates (3 digits) perhaps overlapping the name, which is something we'd like to avoid. Also look out for Vermont's 3 digit coordinates overlapping N.H.'s. Watch New Jersey's overlap of name also.

I like the use of both flags as a background, but the where the 'flag ocean ends' when it meets the legend, the map looks almost unfinished in this aspect. I'm not sure how you would alleviate this, but the sudden change from the flag ocean to the legend is something to look at.

The river right now feels drawn on, and very un-river-like. And like another user mentioned, the bridge image doesn't quiet mesh with the map.

I see you also use a number of decorative images around the map, but for the most part I'm not a fan of these. They seem to take up space, without adding much to the map. I'd maybe be in favor of removing the canon, bugle, and whatever is above Grant's name. The swords in the name seem alright, though I'd maybe consider moving them behind the title and making them bigger.

Regarding the ships in the water...the current images don't fit with the map. They feel too much like a real life image, which doesn't quite fit this theme. I'd consider alternate images. I also dislike the 'little legend' at te bottom of the map, and how the ships are on it. Also eventually the red connecting lines should be spruced up, as they glaringly stand out and look crude.

The legend feels a little chaotic, especially with the overlap of territory names into it. I'd almost consider looking into cutting off a few pixels on the left side of the map, (as you have some territory space that isn't really needed), to create more space for a seperate legend.

=====

As for Game play....

The capitals aren't a part of the 'Key Cities' bonus, are they?

I like the bonus tiers you have, with the division leaders each having a bonus, along with the collective having a bonus. I also like the inclusion of the key cities bonus, though the north may be at a slight disadvantage as to where they are located. The capitals are similar to Anhk-Morpork in Discworld, and will he contested and a nice early foothold. Side note, capitAls

The rest of the game play looks pretty standard, but good. The bonuses seem alright, but I'll look closer at those maybe later.

Good work, keep it up.


--Andy

[Elijah S]

Okay... my delayed reply is due to the fact that Andy placed a heaping stack of requests on my plate.

A few of the easier fixes have aleady been worked on, but the more time consuming things will be done gradually, if at all.

The icons still seem to add to the feel for some, and detract for others. So, this may have to go up to a vote at some point.
I think they give the board something... except for the drum which, when placed in the working file never seems to maintain its sharpness. So I'll probably 86 it.
The bugle and canon though... I like.

As for the river seeming "drawn on" and the ships seeming "too realistic"...
I don't see that this river is much different from others (i.e.- germany); and the ships... again, I'd like input from others on whether or not they need to be different. -The ones I've used are from the war itself and that should probably be considered.
I'm sure that, should a consensus show that others feel the same as Andy, I can draw new ones or find some appropriate clipart.

I've tacked on another 20px to the Legend and re-re-re-realigned it.
I'll work on making it more consistent as for the font sizes, but again, would like additional input.

I'm also playing with different textures... thusfar, the ones which are most appealing to me is an eye candy "weave" or photoshop "canvas"... I'll put the two in the next revision.

Gameplay issues will be addressed at a later stage, as I think that the graphic presentation should be fine-tuned first.

[Coleman]

The icons still seem to add to the feel for some, and detract for others. So, this may have to go up to a vote at some point.

You might benefit from trying something akin to the arrows qwert uses to show river crossings in Eastern Front. Not trying to say the bridges don't work, just giving you another idea since a couple posters have mentioned problems with them.

[Suzy1]

Elijah, the fact that you continually receive posts from different moderators giving their input on what they each think needs to be done differently to your map has to at some point become frustrating. Just when you make a change to please 1 of them and get a thumbs-up, another tells you to go to the other extreme. I am sure that with all this artistic and graphic talent in 1 place together, that there are going to be differences of opinion. As moderators, I personally think that they should all look at what they think needs to be done, then collectively make a post that they can all appreciate. I still love the map. I really do hope that all of your hard work isn't for nothing. I have so much respect for you that you take all of this constructively and continue to try to find a happy medium for everyone. Good luck to you

[Elijah S]

Suzy, as always, you've been very supportive in this endeavor and I appreciate your comments.

I've been perhaps a little overanxious to get this map finished, and can see some things that can be improved but, yes, it's frustrating to change things per new input. -Especially things which require a considerable amount of time.
But you know me... I trudge on and try to maintain a degree of optimism.

[Elijah S]

I've been looking for a texture that would give this map a more antiquated feel and I think this does it...

I also put a faint portrait of Lincoln in there... I think it adds something to the map.

Comments welcome...

[reverend_kyle]

I think it looks great, besides the legend, it seems messy to me.

[cairnswk]

Elijah S...are you going to replace any boat links that were red and Andy mentioned could be changed.

Also, is it possible to change the overall title of your map...perhaps Vx (Py) rather than New Poll (unless there is a poll your are planning or is this a hangover from start-up) I keep looking for the poll.

Personally I like the Abe image in the back-ground, others may think differently...but I am not keen on the territory texture. Sorry. Perhaps speak to DiM or Oaktown who have used the antiquated look on previous maps to find out how they did it.

[Aerial Attack]

Elijah,

Great work so far.

1) The bridge from Illinois to Kentucky. Perhaps that could be moved to Ohio/W. Virginia [seeing as these are mostly troop/attack bridges - a neutral Kentucky probably wouldn't appreciate one].

2) Maryland wasn't actually neutral. It was UNION occupied [seeing as how DC was the capital of the North - speaking of which why has DC been made a part of MD? And Delaware part of New Jersey?].

3) The Union Navy should be based out of Annapolis (US Naval Academy), MD. Yet another reason to make MD part of the North. I guess they might have launched some ships from West Point (US Military Academy), NY.

4) Attack lines for ships. If you add a route from Annapolis/West Point to USS4, that should take care of the Union Navy. If you move the CSS2 a few pixels to the right, then each Confederate ship can "supply" 2 southern states: CSS1 [Louisiana and Mississippi]; CSS2 [Alabama and Florida]; CSS3[Georgia and South Carolina]

4b) It's a blockade - each Confederate ship should have to worry about slipping between two Union ships. If you move CSS2 to the right - then you can move USS1 and USS2 a little to the left. Move USS3 to the bottom right corner of the ocean - then it can attack both CSS2 and CSS3. USS1 would now only attack CSS1 and USS2 would get both CSS1 and CSS2.

5) I assume the key city in South Carolina is Charleston? That is much closer to the Georgia border [right across the river from Savannah]. Might want to lower both the city marker and CSS3 [effectively have it touch down in Savannah, GA]. This will allow you to move the army circle and state label down a few pixels.

5a) I know that St. Louis is right on the river, but you might want to move it a pixel or two left [same separation as you have for the Tennessee city].

6) The Legend. The fonts [and amount of boldness] still look different in several places. Especially Capitals; the +1 doesn't agree with the +1 for Confederate Navy. Not sure if one is squished or the other stretched?

7) The Rivers. The edges are somewhat jagged or textured in most places - this is good. But in Louisiana, between Ohio and West Virigina, and in Iowa they are smooth. Shouldn't they all be jagged/textured [my choice] or all smooth?

[Elijah S]

Aerial- Thanks for your advice.
I've taken the sea-attack lines and bridges out of the most recent versions, hoping for input like yours.
I'm messing with different ways to portray the attacks from ship and the bridges.

Cairnswk- I had a poll up yesterday, but managed to place a wrong image in it, so had Coleman take it out.
The new poll is more along the lines of what I'm wanting to know.
Personally, I really like the marble texture. -It gives the board the kind of look I was going for.
I'm flexible about the Lincoln image though...

[Aerial Attack]

I voted for the sandstone texture. The marble texture could just be a bit dark (all the territories seem a bit dark or dirty - obscures the Confederate Flag). If you could lighten the marble texture a little, I might be swayed.

I'm glad you like my advice (oh wait, you didn't say you liked it ... you just thanked me for it *chuckle*). I too like the Lincoln image in the background. Sorry to have put so much in that first post - but it was my first look. I'm sure you (and the rest of the community) have your own ideas about many of those things.