Tamriel map of the Elder scrolls [Done]

[freakshow]

I like, I like. The one thing that you could do is spruce up your legend alittle I know that there is plenty of inspiration for a fancier design, the one you have now is functional but others will have a problem with that.

[Marvaddin]

I like it very much, including the bridges, and its difficult.

About the legend, its good too, maybe you could change only the black background.

And the bonuses need a little discussion. For example, Hammerfell bonus is too low. Can someone (maybe you, Andy) put the analysis here?

[Banana Stomper]

I mostly put those values in semi-arbitrarily, just to get some discussion going on what they should be. The main factor that i though about was how many countries you have to defend to keep it. And i kind of though about what other map's values are like. Nothing scientific. Nothing is even remotely set in stone though, What do you think they should look like?

[AndyDufresne]

Lets see what I can run up the flag pole...**turns up his ACDC**

__________________________________________

~~Visual Appeal~~

---The legend is alright, perhaps something other than just plain black ground. I feel that it sticks out too much from the hole of the map...and it looks like it's a layer under neath the map. It is seemingly burrowing under Hammerfell. I love the font, I think it works well with the current idea of the map. Added visuals always help the map, much like the Ireland map that is being created at the Discword map. Perhaps something can be added onto the map or into the legend to spruce it up, but those are more minor after thoughts to be done only when the major issues at hand are no longer there. One more question is there any particular reason for the order in the legend as it is now? Seems rather sporadic and random

---Colors are interesting--I like them. Though I Summerset Isle's red on green is a little hard on the eyes. I think there is a nice amount of texture for the continents. But the ocean seems like a stagnant pool for mosqouites to breed in. Currently it has no feel, perhaps a larger range in the varient in the texture would help move the appeal higher. Also maybe a gradient of some sorts, different shades of blue, would help make the water feel more like water. Also distinguishing the rivers in the continent from the water outside of the mainland would help in the visual appeal department.

---The mountains I like, they feel jagged and uncrossable Quick suggestion for them, extend the Stormhold-Narsis border so we all know that there is no attack route (also look close a the Stormhold, Gidean, and Thorn border. Looks as if Thorn could almost attack Gidean). The bridges work well for the map, and I usually hate bridge graphics, but I think they work rather well. I'm not sure how I feel on the white lines connecting various points on the map. Perhaps I'll come back to those with further consideration and thought.

---Try to keep countries from coming to right angle borders, I.E. Fang Lair, Skaven, Sentinel, and Rihad. Could say Fang Lair attack Sentinel? Hard to tell, take out the 4 corner there.

---Is there any particular reason why some of the circles are larger than others? I think keeping them uniform is a must, otherwise it detracts from the over all look of the map.

=========================================

~~~Nitty Gritty~~~

---Morrowind~~ 7 Countries; 3 Borders; 2 Attack routes. Morrowind has the difficult dilemma of dealing with a one way border. That makes it interesting, due to the fact that if you hold Morrowind you will always have 3 Borders. Makes exspansion though from here, because of the mountains, but I think as it stands I think 4 isn't so far off because of the reasons.

---Black Marsh~~ 5 Countries; 2 Borders; 3 Attack routes. As it stands on this map I think Black Marsh is doing rather well. A bonus of 3 seems justifiable, though going with 2 might be a better option.

---Hammerfell~~ 9 Countries; 3 Borders; 4 Attack Routes. A bonus of 4 seems perhaps a little low if Morrowind is also kept at 4, perhaps a boost to 5.

---Elsweyr~~ 7 Countries; 3 Borders; 4 Attack routes. A bonus of 4 seems more like it, if you compare Black Marsh to it. But if you make it and Hammerfell 4 then perhaps Morrowind needs changing.

---Summerset Isle~~ 5 Countries; 2 Borders; 2 Attack routes. Rather nearly identical to Black Marsh. This I would stick with a bonus of 2 here, and look at making these two similar in bonus.

---Cyrodiil~~ 10 countries; 4 Borders; 4 Attack routes. This continent is usual. Usually the central continents are hard to hold early on, but as it stands this one seems actually rather possible to. You can easily limit it's borders down to 3 by taking Dune, and you have a great advantage against Morrowind. An 8 bonus of outrageous. Definitely nothing that high. Maybe a 6 due to the number of countries and borders-to possible borders, maybe 7.

---Skyrim~~ 6 Countries; 4 Borders; 4 Attack routes. This is an interesting little continent with many mountains. Early on it will always have 4 borders, making it somewhat difficult to hold, though it has a smaller number of countries. I think 5 seems applicable if Hammerfell is boosted, they would be somewhat similar (in the sense of trading off less countries for a border).

---And I count 49 countries...one country needs to exit, perhaps in Hammerfell. That is, if I did my math correctly.

=======================================

>>>>Final Words<<<<

Over all the visuals are nice but some work is still needed in that department. Bonuses need to be adjusted and reworked. Cyrodill is a power continent that can throw a lot of weight a round. Tougher continents seem to be Morrowind and Skyrim, other continents have their own nuances. It's getting there.


--Andy

[Banana Stomper]

A few people have mentioned the legend going beneath the land. I haven't really had a problem with it, i don't know, i sorta liked it. I'm having some trouble fixing it, i don't really want to go around change sizes of everything. Would just erasing what goes beneath the river suffice?

Also, as i was trying to make cyrodiil a little more reasonable of a continent, it appears as though i ended up making it very defendable for being "that central continent" What do you think of completely opening up the border betweeen riften and Velothi mts.

I put in some graphics and spruced up the legend. I'm gonna take a look at fixing up the water before i post it up. Maybe i'll finish it tonight. We'll see how much more time i can spend not studying for finals this week.

[AndyDufresne]

Opening the border would help alleviate the problem. Though perhaps looking into reversing the arrow so that Velothi Mts. can attack one of the various other countries in Cyrodiil might also be another option, giving the advantage to the smaller continent rather than the large. Doing that would knock Morrowind down to 7 Countries, 2 Borders; 3 Attack routes. But doing that might make too many little continents for the map.

I'm torn, but I think I'm currently leaning to an open border for each, but I thought I would throw out the other idea for options.

And erasing the border underneath the various portions of land could work, though it might make the legend look shotty depending on how the visuals impact the final. Maybe shrinking the legend would help the problem.

--Andy

[Jota]

Would it work to separate the map title from the continent bonuses? Say, a black box in the upper left corner with "Tamriel" in it, and the other black box where it is now with the continents in it. Or would that just look silly?

[AndyDufresne]

Hm, that could work, though I usually favor keeping the title and the legend rather connected. Also depending on where he placed visuals and graphics, doing what Jota suggested might be near impossible.

--Andy

[HighBorn]

i love the over all feel or the map.... keep up the good work..

[Banana Stomper]

Here's where i'm at right now. I'm not sure how to change the rivers and the water. I'll take a look at doing that later on. But here's where i'm at with the llegend. I'm liking how its looking. I think i did most of whats been suggested. I'm going to go through it again tomorrow probably. Just wanted to give you guys something to talk about. Keep up the comments.

Don't mind the flags. If you care to see what they're all about check out the embassies thread in this forum. Its a fun little thing i'm considering. Not necessarily going to be implemented.

Also, those bonus values are still arbitrary.

[Hoff]

you should draw in a little shadow for the flags to make it appear they are standing up.

[Marvaddin]

Very very good...

About bonuses, I think you could change the following:
Skyrim - 4
Hammerfell - 5
Elsweyr - 4

About the flags... if you will mantain them, I can think about better locations. Arent Fang Lair and Sancre Tor connected, are they?

[Banana Stomper]

Right now, they aren't connected. I'd write more, but i'm late for a drug test.

[Hoff]

stomper you drugie. Whos pee did you get this time? lol

[Banana Stomper]

Hammerfell could be worth 5, but i don't know how i feel about it being worth more than Skyrim.

I think skyrim would be a very difficult continent to hold. Although it only has 6 countries, 4 of them border another, touching three different continents, and Hammerfell has 8 regions but only three boarder countries. Also, its very mountainous and thus limiting.

Elsweyr could be 4, i'm fine with that. Its butt to butt with cyrodiil, which isn't fun.

How does the legend look now with going under the land. i just did some erasing, nothing fancy. Also, note that morrowind's border opening up with cyrodiil. I like it better that way, the arrow was kind of an eyesore.

About the Flags. The main reason i put it in Fang Lair was because of the size of the country, but since i took out the one region above wayrest, i could always just make that a little bigger and put it back up there. It is kind of close to Elsweyr.

[AndyDufresne]

Lets see...


---The legend actually looks and feels like a legend. Many steps above the black background. I personally like the papyrus feel of it, and the font is perfect. The interesting coin visual also helps accentuate the map I think. Perhaps even adding one more thing in the bottom right hand corner to counter balance the visuals might be something to look into.

---Once you attempt to do some sort of gradient, I think the map will shine even more.

---Elsweyr's country names are a little hurtful to the eyes. Perhaps a different color, or shade of blue (either darker or lighter) so it isn't such a bright on bright. Perhaps even a darker shade of red for Black Marsh's country names.

---And as for Skyrim, Hammerfell, and Elsweyr, I think boosting Elsweyr to 4 is justified due to the borders and number of countries compared to the other continents. As for Hammerfell, I feel it shouldn't be more than Skyrim. As it is on the map I like it, though perhaps an argument for them to be the same. But then that runs the risk of putting 3 similarly bonused continents (and mid-high to that) nearly in a line. This gives me something interesting to investigate...I'll be back later...


--Andy

[Banana Stomper]

I did a couple things that were suggested here, i don't know how i feel about it, but tell me what you think.

I added a little different textue to the water, hopefully to give it a watery feel, and also added a gradient. I'm not sure how i feel about the looks of this.

To the bottom right i added the other side of the coin at the top left. I made it small so it would fit, but i don't know, i think its starting to feel a little crowded

I changed some colors of the names of countries so that they may be a little easier on the eyes. I think i'm happy with this, heh.

I also added a new color and texture to distinguish the rivers from the ocean. I don't know how i feel about this feature in particular. The different blues meeting at the ocean around the map is awkward.

I don't know how i feel about it, so i immagine that you guys won't like it so much, being the picky group that you are. Give me some suggestions to improve it, and tell me whether or not i should take the second side of the coin out, i think it might be a bit much. Just had a thought...I should put a compass rose there....

Oh, one more thing. I bumped summerset isle and black marsh up to three bonuses. here is my reasoning, flawed as it may be. Andy made a good point about the top of the map having 5 fairly high valued continents in a row, and i realized that a player starting in the south would probably have a big disadvantage in the game, with little opportunity to score some points...So i bumped Black Marsh up to three. And then comparing the two continents, i can not in good conscience make black marsh worth more than summerset isle, they are so similar. So that got bumped up too.

[Derwiddle]

The overall feel of the map is great, I'd definately play it. The gradient water I think looks kinda nice, it's not just flat and one color, I like that.

As for the coin you added, you're right - it does crowd the map too much. I'd drop that to free up some space. If you add a compass rose, then I'd make sure that at least some water is visible behind it, just to keep the open/airy feeling.

And the making the rivers a different texture does clash too much me thinks. They'd look better with the same texture as the oceans in my opinion.

Aside from a few little things, I love it! You've done a great job with it.

[Jota]

I preferred the rivers as extensions of the oceans as well. In fact, I think the ocean looked fine before (although I think it still looks fine now, except for the river clashing). The coins might look better if they were each a little bit smaller: the head being the size the tail is now, perhaps, and the tail scaled down proportionately. Might not be as crowded that way.

The continent bonuses all seem to be on the high side to me, but they're consistently high, so I guess that's OK: owning continents will just be that much more important on this map. Although Morrowind looks a bit higher than the rest, even: calling it a four might be more in line with everything else, since it does only have three border countries (compare to Black Marsh, with two border countries, touching the same number of foreign continents, for a bonus of three).

Also, if you're keeping the embassies/outposts/whatever you'll call them (which I hope you do), don't forget to mention how they work someplace on the map.

[Hoff]

I'm not really a fan of the gradient ocean. Makes it look purplish. Maybe a different gradient and different colors would work better. But I prefer no gradient at all. The rivers look wierd and should be the same as the ocean. Maybe you should just get rid of the coins all toget to make room for the explanation on the embassies. And with any room left over stick in a compass rose. But besids that i like.

[Banana Stomper]

Small Map

Ok, I think this should be about done. Sorry hoff, i want to keep the coin big, i like it.

I put in an explanation for how the embassies work. I could take stuff out and use that space for an explanation, but i feel like what i have in there suffices, my roommate gets it, and he's a dumbass. (thats a total lie, he's a genius, but thats beside the point)

If someone out there who isn't familiar with the discussion of the embassies could take a look at that and tell me if it makes sense to them, that would be great.

I decided to keep the backround as the rivers, i like it better that way too.

Jota, good call on Morrowind. I'm happy making that worth a little less. It balances the map out some more.

I went with two for the bonus, because i can not in good conscience make holding one country worth the same amount as holding another whole continent.

Compass at the bottom right, its there because it doesn't have to be very big, not much else fits there.

I made the gradient a little more subtle. I like it this way.

Its done in my mind, if you guys see any glaring errors or something like confusing borders, point that out. and if you feel so inclined, complain about the graphics, we'll see if i listen to you

[Hoff]

Fine keep the coin big and in a wierd spot. But atleast make it so it fits in the screen. Make it a tad bit smaller so the glowing outside rings dont go off the map. And I still dont like gradient oceans... lol

[HighBorn]

i still love it

[Shadow Dragon]

I think it looks really good right now.

Being a Elder Scrolls fan and all I'm sort of annoyed by the fact that Valenwood and High Rock don't exist on it but thats just me and I guess it doesn't really matter to much and it probably would be sort of hard to impliment them into it.

But yeah It looks great and I can't wait to play it.

[Banana Stomper]

Yea, sorry about the omissions, I guess some sacrifices had to be made. They are there in spirit though.

HighBorn, i think you loved this when it was still that shitty bubble wrap looking map, haha.