Ancient Greece [Done]

[Marvaddin]

Of course, I will suggest bonus...

But, first thing, let me know: will you add some countries or this will be a smaller map (for 3-4 players games)? I really like numbers between 42 and 48... but, anyway, this can be a funny and good map.

And, Im still expecting some suggestions, Nobunaga.

[AndyDufresne]

I'll do my best to help. There will be discrepencies throughout until in the end I show the final revisions so bare with me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---Peloponesos~~ 8 Countries; 3 Borders; 6 Attack routes. I'm thinking this continent is alright as it stands on the map. It's pretty well balanced and could easily denote a 4-5 bonus.

---Central Greece~~ 7 Countries; 4 Borders; 6 Attack routes. As it stands on the map perhaps a 6 bonus.

---W. Greece~~ 5 Countries; 5 Borders; 9 Attack routes. This would be an extremely hard continent to hold. It can be attack from many different places. Obviously somethings needs to be done about the border issue. Perhaps if you take out the border between Aetolia and Achaea that would increase the holdability. Bringing it to 4 borders; 8 attack routes. Now if you get rid of a few attack routes, say Euboea to Thessaly that would bring it to 7 attack routes. I'm considering suggesting deleting the border between Acarnani and Epirus. This would make then 3 borders; 6 attack routes. This might be the route to go, but as it stands w. Greece is a play of havoc. A 4-5 bonus would be in store perhaps.

---N. Greece~~ 6 Countries; 3 Borders; 4 Attack routes as it stands on the map. Now if you do take the Epirus-Acarnani border out that would make it have 3 borders and 3 attack routes. Perhaps a value of 4ish.

---Asia Minor~~ 7 Countries; 3 Borders; 3 Attack routes. I like the this stagnant part of the map. I don't think many changes are needed here. Similar to N. Greece, perhaps a value of 4 also.

---The Islands~~ 4 Countries, 2 Borders; 4 Attack routes. Though this is a small continent, I foresee many battles here due to the attack routes from many continents. Which I think is well balanced. A suggested value of 3 due to the attack routes.

From what it looks like the strong continents end up being Asia Minor and The Islands. Once you take those over, you can get a rather nice bonus for only two possible borders...hm
=========================================================

Now with map revisions...the new lay out....

------Peloponesos~~ 3 Borders; 5 Attack routes. Border Countries: Zakynthos, Achaea, Argolis. As it is here I think the 4-5, more toward 5.

------Central Greece~~ 4 Borders; 5 Attack routes. Border Countries: Euboea, Boeotia, Corinth, Tinos. This seems like a tougher continent to hold, but still possible I think. A bonus of 5-6, maybe more toward 6.

------W. Greece~~ 4 Borders; 7 Attack routes. Border Countries: Thessaly, Locris, Kefalonia, Acarnani. I'm starting to lean more toward 4 borders, even though it is such a small continent. I think leaving it at 4 borders would help keep the continents from being too alike. It would be naturally tough to hold, but too hard. A bonus 6-7, perhas more toward the higher value.

------N. Greece~~ 3 Borders; 3 Attack routes. Border Countries: Epirus, Makedonia, Thrace. If the route between Epirus-Acarnani was kept then it would push it to 4 attack routes, but mostly getting rid of that border was to help W. Greece, but you can make arguments for it to stay. 3-4

------Asia Minor~~ 3 Borders; 3 Attack routes. Border Countries: Mysia, Samos, Caria. Value 3-4, perhaps the lower. Should be somewhat similar to N. Greece, but maybe a value less due to it being further away from the havoc of 'directional' Greece.

------The Islands~~ 2 Borders; 4 attack routes. Border Countries: Kyklades, Rhodos. I think a bonus of 3 will work fine, due to the attack routes from various continents. But an argument can be made for 2.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeez, did I make any sense there? I don't even know if I helped really...hehe. I'm sure Marv. and Grim and others can do a better analysis than I have done. But I've tried to get you somewhere, and got a few ideas out there.

--Andy

[casper]

first off the map is looking pretty good. nice one!

the islands look as though they're floating above the ocean like clouds. maybe lessen the distance of the drop shadow? also think the map as a whole is a touch too light...slightly! but that's just me.

also i agree with what zorba_ca said about the kyklades borders looking too much like attack links. i think if you make the attack links intersect the border at a perpendicular angle instead of at corners of the border that might help. those 3 point nodes are confusing. maybe make the border an ellipse. or even more drastic just get rid of the border around kyklades and have the links go right up to an island (see discworld map thread). i don't think it will be too confusing.

overall great job so far.

[zorba_ca]

Hmmm...

Reading Andy's latest post:

From what it looks like the strong continents end up being Asia Minor and The Islands. Once you take those over, you can get a rather nice bonus for only two possible borders

It made me realize that this game board is too circular. The Agean is like a void and due to country locations most of the fighting will be in the west. I would suggest an additional cross-route or two.

Perhaps Skyros to Lesbos and/or Skyros to Xios.

[Pristella]

There is at least three names I'd like to see on the map: Athens, Sparta and Thebe. There already was some talk about Athens, but those other two are also names that mean a lot in ancient Greek history, especially Sparta. I could dig into a couple of history books and give some further input later this weekend, if you would like. Also, do you have any spesific era in mind?

[Mr. K]

There is at least three names I'd like to see on the map: Athens, Sparta and Thebe. There already was some talk about Athens, but those other two are also names that mean a lot in ancient Greek history, especially Sparta. I could dig into a couple of history books and give some further input later this weekend, if you would like. Also, do you have any spesific era in mind?

I got three names for you: Attica, Lakonia and Boeotia.

[Hoff]

I agree with pristella, people would like the map more if you put the more recognizeable names on it like sparta and athens and thebes

maybe you could make them territory names, instead of like central greece or western greece or whatever. but i dont really know where they were located.

[hairingtons]

looks good, really like the idea of ancient greece map. what about adding the lost city of Atlantis in some way ?

[Ayame]

I like a lot this map, Mr. k.

The only thing that I dont like very much is the white area around the names of the countrys. I think is nicer hide a little more the names, like in the world´s classic map.

One question for Hairingtons: This prhase of the war and the honor... Who is the author

[hairingtons]

ayame:

the man in the photo>the great Winston Churchill, do a google search he has some of the greatest quotes you'll ever read. i could change it everyday!

[Mr. K]

I agree with pristella, people would like the map more if you put the more recognizeable names on it like sparta and athens and thebes

maybe you could make them territory names, instead of like central greece or western greece or whatever. but i dont really know where they were located.

Point is it wouldn't make any sense. All the territories are named after the geographic locations.

I'm considering naming the one continent Athens, though.

But Athen's territory is known as Attica, and Sparta is in akonia. Its not that uncommonly known. I can't rename Sparta's continent though, cause its Peloponesos... And well, thats what it is. Thats the most clear-cut continent name in the entire map. Naming it something else would just be incorrect.

[AndyDufresne]

Do whatever you must to get rid of the 'directional area' continents!

--Andy

[Mr. K]

Will do. Haven't been working on it lately though cause i'm away for the weekend, just stopping by to see what you guys are up to every once in a while. I'll get around to finishing up the map during the week.

[Mr. K]

Haha, I thought I wasn't gonna get around to doing this map until next week because I knew I have so much to do during this week... I guess I don't know the powers of my own procrastination well enough. So here is it:



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i125/ ... elarge.jpg - large version

Unless anyone has some major complaints, its pretty much done.

[Hoff]

looks good to me, but i think the legend is a bit difficult to read. Maybe a more grayish color would help the words stand out a bit more.

[Hoff]

so here are my 3 suggestions.

1. make the legend easier to read
2. Add a mini parthanon instead of just two pillars, cuz it kinda looks awkward. At first glance it just looks random things sticking up. So iether make it into a building and have "ancient greece" on top of it. Or make the two pillars more recognizeable as pillars and not random things sticking out of the legend.
3. maybe change the shading of either pelophonesos or the agean to make it easier to tell the difference

[rocksolid]

Hey K, the drop shadow on the Kyklades makes them look a little like flying amoebas. Maybe tone it down a bit?

[PaperPlunger]

wonderful map, easily read, nice appeal.. I love it!

[zorba_ca]

Great job!!! It's one of (if not THE) most appealing maps!

I agree about the shadows and the pillars.

Other than that it's good to go.

[Scarus]

You gotta respect somebody that has done this much work and produced such a great product, but I, too, feel you might be a little too bound up in authenticity. The more recognizable names of Sparta, Troy, Thebes, etc. would make this a much more popular map. It's pretty hard to develop an interest in playing some of the maps here if you don't have a good grasp on the local geography. The proper greek naming of the territories in your map just causes me to lose a lot of interest in it.

Makes me also lament that a fantasy map which includes Sparta and Troy becomes very unlikely once your authentic map is adopted.

I guess what I want is a Trojan War map. I don't expect you to change everything for me, but I bet if you were to do a poll that you would find there is probably more interest in that than in your more authentic map.

Just so I don't end this post on a negative note, I am very impressed by your work.

[Hyperventilate]

this map rules already

[AndyDufresne]

It looks pretty fantastic. I'd also agree with Hoff in that some sort of architectural building would enhance the legend. I'd make the names maybe a little bloder, and the numbers perhaps bigger. Also a little gripe, the numbers aren't lined up vertically in a column, but that isn't anything major. Just looking to improve the over all visual appeal of a well put together map.

Only a minor suggestion: an argument could be made to knock Peloponesos down to bonus of 4, due to 3 borders, similar to Boreia Ellada. Though you could also argue the other way, since the Peloponesos does have 2 more countries than the Red Continent, and two more attack routes. But I am not sure those constitute a higher bonus.


--Andy

[Jota]

I agree that it looks great. But, even as a natural pedant, I also can't disagree with Scarus' point about Sparta and Troy.

[Mr. K]

I fixed up all the stuff Hoff suggested, but I accidentally forgot to save the changes. So i'll redo it tomorrow and show you guys tomorrow. I suppose it couldn't hurt to change Lakonia to Sparta, though Lakonia itself is pretty well known because its always mentioned whenever Sparta is (because its the homeland of the empire). But Sparta is obviously better known and apparently favored.

I dont really know much about Troy, I figure you guys would want what is currently named Mysia to be Troy?

[Scarus]

That would be too cool!!!