Bamboo Jack (Thai POW Railway) [Quenched]

[The Fuzzy Pengui]

I think the map looks nice, but i have one question....the title says
WWII: Thai-Burma Death Railway: New Design V13 (P11)
where is page 11!

Whoops. sorry 'bout that Fuzzy Pengui....me who is being a bit fuzzy there

Lol, just giving you a hard time
To be honest, the title on this latest map doesn't look as good as the previous version, but the map itself is looking great!

PS there is now a Page 11

[cairnswk]

I think the map looks nice, but i have one question....the title says
WWII: Thai-Burma Death Railway: New Design V13 (P11)
where is page 11!

Whoops. sorry 'bout that Fuzzy Pengui....me who is being a bit fuzzy there

Lol, just giving you a hard time
To be honest, the title on this latest map doesn't look as good as the previous version, but the map itself is looking great!

PS there is now a Page 11

Hard time! No worries fuzzy pengui.

Yes the title does still need some work, but i'm sure something will come to mind shortly.

[gimil]

Yes the title does still need some work

the 2nd update on page 10 was perfect use that one

[cairnswk]

Yes the title does still need some work

the 2nd update on page 10 was perfect use that one

Below is the map V15 with the title update (from V12 on P 10) but i change the case and the colour within....it wasn't satisfactory for me.

[onbekende]

just want to know 1 thingy before I make a full review (oo yes, long time ago sicne I last did thus)

Rail Section 1 (total south), Rutke attacks to Non Pladuk on map, Non Pladuk railway station is mini-map or grd 1/2?

if I know this, I am pleased, very pleased

[unriggable]

Show where the rooms connect in the stations.

[cairnswk]

just want to know 1 thingy before I make a full review (oo yes, long time ago sicne I last did thus)

Rail Section 1 (total south), Rutke attacks to Non Pladuk on map, Non Pladuk railway station is mini-map or grd 1/2?

if I know this, I am pleased, very pleased

onbekende....looking for to yo0ur review...you have long breakfast LOL.

rutke can attack to non pladuk railway station or guard 1 or guard 2 on the mini-map. this way there is three attack option to and from the POW camps.

[onbekende]

Shall again start with saying what an excellent map this is. cairnswk, EXCELLENT MAP (now don't forget your signature).

Shall follow your Bonus board

but first your legend and perhaps a 3 note's:
- your forth note, let it also state the Railway Station of said POW camp, might get confusing (0.1)
- I understand why under The Bridge the water is light, you just state people crosse the river at light river color, perhaps switch this to not confuse people (thus dark = crossable) (0.2)
- and with the crossing of Rail section 2 <=> Mae Klong River, that line isn't needed, make it so Non Baradai isn't at a crossing (0.3)
- People will start annoying themself over the POW camps, perhaps a +3 bonus for holding a total POW camp (Station + Grd's) would be nice, but this gets absorbed into the total bonus, thus not added!!(0.4)

Rail Section 4:
9 terr, 5 needind def, 3 continents bordering => Bonus of 6, thus good!

Burma West:
2 terr, 2 def, 3 cont => Bonus of 2, thus good
that friendly curl of Kyondaw at the bottom is nice, but perhaps lessen it and make it straighter (1.1)

Burma East:
4 terr, 4 def, 3 cont => Bonus of 4, thus good
Put the terr name of Phu Jue outside its terr (2.1)
terr name of Winyaw can be misread, perhaps only the "W" inside the terr (2.2)

The Borders:
6 terr, 4 def, 4 cont => Bonus of 5, thus good
"Tha Sao" ter name, move to the right (3.1)
"Tennaserim" terr name, again might be misread (the first "n") (3.2)

Rail Section 3:
11 terr, 6 def, 6 cont => Bonus of 7, this is depatable, but perhaps 7 is better, seeing it can overpower when having north (4.1)
Aperon terr color is going to the terr color of Rail Section 4, perhaps darken it? (4.2)

The Highlands:
6 terr, 6 def, 5 cont => Bonus of 6, mkay, 7 is good too, no objection

NE Kanchanaburi:
3 terr, 2 def, 2 cont => Bonus of 2, thus good
in bonus legend, the "2" is smaller then the rest (5.1)

Rail Section 2:
12 terr, 8 def, 6 cont => Bonus of 9, once again depatable, but in favor of 10, thus good

The Lowlands:
6 terr, 5 def, 3 cont => Bonus of 5, if I see it right "Kui Yong" can't be attacked from outside the continent, thus a bonus of 6 is suitable, 7 too much me thinks (6.1)

E Kanchanaburi:
5 terr, 4 def, 3 cont => Bonus of 4, thus good
"The Thong Mong" terr name can go down a bit (7.1)
"Bo Phloi" terr name can go right abit (7.2)
"Phanom Thuan" terr name is a bit ackword there, perhaps widen the terr itself to encompass the name? (7.3)

Mae Klong River:
6 terr, 4 def, 3 cont => Bonus of 5, thus good
Encompass "Ban Bak Dong" terr name perhaps? (8.1)
"Tha Muang" terr name can go up (8.2)

The Bridge:
2 terr, 2 def, 2 cont => Bonus of 2, thus good
see (0.2) so those 2 terr name's get more room if you switch

Rail Section 1:
terr 9, 2 def, 3 cont => Bonus of 4, atmost 5, when someone has the upper 2 he has that cont, perhaps note (0.4)? (9.1)


now you might wonder what those numbers between brackets are, now I know you like to quote people, and mine post you don't have to quote just use the numbers

[joecoolfrog]

Im sorry guys but I really dont think this is a good subject for a war game,nobody died fighting on this map they simply rotted away from a combination of starvation,disease and overwork. I have been to Kanchanaburi and visited hellfire pass,the war cemetary,the museum and
frankly you might just as well have a map with holecaust victims fighting it out in the Nazi extermination camps.
I realise you will all mock me for being a sad old bastard but to my mind certain things should not be trivialised and I just felt I had to say my piece.

[cairnswk]

Im sorry guys but I really dont think this is a good subject for a war game,nobody died fighting on this map they simply rotted away from a combination of starvation,disease and overwork. I have been to Kanchanaburi and visited hellfire pass,the war cemetary,the museum and
frankly you might just as well have a map with holecaust victims fighting it out in the Nazi extermination camps.
I realise you will all mock me for being a sad old bastard but to my mind certain things should not be trivialised and I just felt I had to say my piece.

Joecoolfrog....thanks for your post. I appreciate you having your say.
I realise what you are saying is true. And having been there, you will have experienced the emotions of the sites. However, i don't just create maps to allow punters to fight over territories. I also create these maps to bring awareness of some the horrors of what war brings, and indeed this map is a fight for survival - which is what exactly the POWs had to endure in this death hole. And to say that there were no attemtps at fighting I beleive is misleading. I know for instance through my research that there were many attempts to sabotage the building; particularly on the Pack of Cardssection of the line, and I am sure that knowing the aussie compatriots, the goalers would not have had it all their own way.

I think we will put this to another vote and see what the forum says.

[KEYOGI]

Interested in Bamboo Jack?

Yes
44% [ 13 ]
No
55% [ 16 ]

Total Votes : 29

[cairnswk]

Thansk Keyogi.

NEW POLL - Running 15 days

The Forum now has its chance to decide if this map lives or dies. Please vote in the poll above.

There will be no development on this map until the end of the poll.

This is the latest V15 of the map below:

[edbeard]

one thing I just noticed is that the brown and teal letters on the map appear to be bolded whilst the green and yellow do not. (referring to the railway station text that appears on the territories not the left portion of the map)

[Teya]

I voted no, but only because Im not a fan of the map. I understand the sensitivity of the subject but as cairnswk said,

i don't just create maps to allow punters to fight over territories. I also create these maps to bring awareness of some the horrors of what war brings

If people want to bring the politics of war into it, maybe they shouldnt play what is essentially a war game.

[Qwert]

Mine opinion is that you find some others names for these map,like BURMA WAR RAILWAY,BURMA POW RAILWAY,

[Qwert]

teya
If people want to bring the politics of war into it, maybe they shouldnt play what is essentially a war game.

I think that you not right,i dont have nothing agains these map,but give map names like Death railway,its not apropriate.
These is got nothing with politics.

[cairnswk]

Mine opinion is that you find some others names for these map,like BURMA WAR RAILWAY,BURMA POW RAILWAY,

Qwert....that is a good suggestion.
Say: THAI-BURMA POW RAILWAY

Thanks Qwert.

[cairnswk]

I voted no, but only because Im not a fan of the map. I understand the sensitivity of the subject but as cairnswk said,

i don't just create maps to allow punters to fight over territories. I also create these maps to bring awareness of some the horrors of what war brings

If people want to bring the politics of war into it, maybe they shouldnt play what is essentially a war game.

Agree 100% Teya....nice to see you back again.

[Unit_2]

this is conquer club... why is anybody giving negative feed-back for POWs and death....

nice map BTW

[comic boy]

this is conquer club... why is anybody giving negative feed-back for POWs and death....

nice map BTW

I think you should learn some history before making comments like that,the death railway was not about war it was about slave labour. Yes some 16000 Allied prisoners of war were worked to death ( mainly British Dutch Australian ) but also 100000 Asians who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. This was not war it was mass murder,if a map of Worldwide terrorist attrocities,with the twin towers at its apex,was proposed would you defend that ?
I really like Cairnswk maps but think he has erred with this subject matter, at the very least I say replace the poem with a graphic description of what actually happened in that God forsaken Jungle.

[KEYOGI]

I understand both sides of the argument here.

War is an ugly business and we make a game of it. I understand why Cairns is making such a map, for good clean educational fun. I guess the question is if this educational fun is in bad taste. I completely understand comic boy's concerns... I guess you could go as far as comparing the death railway to the Nazi death camps in Europe, I'm sure nobody would want such a map.

War means death for thousands or even millions of people. Any map that portrays real world conflict is likely to stir up feelings. I had a grandfather serve in WWII, and had he died defending my country I might have mixed feelings about WWII: Battle for Australia. It might be pride, it might be anguish, I cannot say because it didn't happen.

This map does bring something different to the table. I guess it's up to community to decide whether it's still good clean educational fun or a map of poor taste that stirs up unhappy emotions.

[cairnswk]

Keyogi...you're at it nice and early this AM.

I too had an uncle who died defending our country in Bouganville (Battle for Australia), and I am sure there are many others out there who have similar experiences.

I admit well and truly that the initial graphic idea for this map was in very poor taste, and the forum let ne know that. However, I don't think this map is in poor taste now.

* The word DEATH has been removed from the title.
* To deny that POW camps did not exist by not using them on a map is ludicrous to my thinking, as stated earlier they were fights for survival.
* the map has now been made into a design of attackable territories which is more pleasing to the eye.

I say onwards and upwards.

[AndyDufresne]

I also see both sides, but I think the presentation of this map is fine and isn't made in a mocking manner, similarly to our other 'actual war' themed maps.


--Andy

[Qwert]

Mine grandfather serve in Yugoslav Royal Army and spend 4 years like POW in Germany and loose leg after one ally bombardment.
I look on these map like one part of history, also i create war map with theme of WWII, so i see these like history leason,where people can look something what dont heard before.
Well Cairnsvik put poll and people can decide,i vote for yes.

[joecoolfrog]

Im pleased that my original post has generated sensible debate and thank you Cairns for not taking it personally and starting the poll.
At the end of the day it is just a game but if it can help people to understand the horrors of war then that is a nice bonus,perhaps a little space could be found on the map as a memorium to those that suffered and died ?