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Postby Marvaddin on Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:12 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:I realise that this formula might not be like that of most of the other maps available, but I am trying to create something different. Apart from thinking more about defence, I think this would make the outcome of the game more unpredictable. What do you think?

1st, Im trying to help, ok?

If you want make defense more important, you shouldnt use so many borders. How a guy will defend 5 borders? Possibly using 4 armies in each one. This would be asking for being broken. This doesnt make defense more important. This would make attack more important, even why those hardly holdable continents would need a greater bonus. So, would the enemy just allow you to hold the continent that is worthy 5 armies, when you have only 4 in each border? I think the main rule would be... if you play in defense with a continent like this, you lose.

In fact, I think there is no way to make defense being more important than attack, but, if you want increase defense value, you should estimulate it having less borders. :wink:

Now please believe me: disturb you is not my goal, I just want to help 8)
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:46 am

Okay Marvaddin, about Europa...that wasn't even my map you were commenting about. That was a Napoleonic era map which someone posted in my thread, and where obviously France is more important than Sweden if you know a little bit about history. You just did not understand what was being discussed. I suggest you learn English well before commenting. Please can you kindly refrain from discussing that map in this thread now?

Marvaddin wrote:This one... 4 versions already?!?! Oh really?!?! Dont you imagine how many versions are usually needed to complete a map, do you? Like you said about me, you would be more usefull revamping your map, and again, and again, instead of just qualifying my opinions as negatives. Want me being sincere? Your map as it is now is a piece of shit (this is my opinion). Dont want opinions? They are negatives? Discuss them. Or, feel free to leave, friend.


About thinking that this map is shit. For me that is not voicing your opinion or trying to help. That is being rude and offensive and it shows your level of education and lack of ability to sustain an argument. You don't go on someone's thread and just say that their map is shit or that it sucks. There are maps that I don't like but I never do that. It's common decency. Also I am not leaving just because you try to bully me. Grow up and learn some manners!

Also when I said four versions...this is version 4.10 which means for this version alone I made like 10 revisions. Anyway since this is the kind of help you can give I would greatly appreciate if you don't comment on this map or any of the maps I do in the future. If you don't want to play them that's fine for me too. There is a whole community here not only you. I apologise to the other members for bickering here.
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Postby Marvaddin on Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:30 am

Maaan, Im tired of this, are you retarded? So you think I dont understand what I was discussing? Why? Couldnt I know what was being discussed and dislike it as it was? Now when I say this map is shit its not my opinion?? Maaaaaaan, you know what I think and what I like better than me, huh?

Hey! Wasnt me to mention one post from other thread at least 3 times because I gave some suggestions you asked for about the legend of this one. I would understand if you admit you wouldnt like to change the legend to keep the photo of your grandpa, but you is the one that cant make any argumentation. I suggest something, because I suggested, you dislike and doesnt change anything without a reason, but so if Andy talk the same thing, you change it, heh? Like the caps in the legend. Oh, sorry, you cant discuss anything and prove yourself correct, looks like you will still change those bad designed continents, it seems people agree me about not being good those with 4 countries and 4 borders or sort of. And, you really changed your map tons of times, and restarted like 4 times... so, what are you as map maker? Unexperienced? Why cant you put yourself in your place and improve your map instead of just qualify opinions as negatives? If you have a reason to do something, let us know, mate.

And dont worry, I will still post my feedback here (not being, like you said, just post that it sucks) to make your map more alike to what I like than to what you had thought, since you cant prove your points and looks like people support what I think.

Now, please stop to attack my soft feelings ( :twisted: ) and start to talk about the map, man. At least, if you are not going to give up. We can start a thread in the flame wars forum, if you want, it would be an easy grab to me, but I wont to discuss anything personal in this thread again.
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Postby Suntzu on Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:48 pm

8) I LIKE IT ,,,,WORK ON WE NEED A NEW MAP
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Postby hulmey on Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:48 pm

Marv its the way you talk to people...You are very arrogant , rude,short and sacarstic...Could be coz your not english and dont understand how to communicate and get the best out of people. But thats just my opinon...

I had never posted in map foundry before. Didnt get a very nice welcome from you.. Here is the thread

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... highlight=
[img]http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9761/41922610151374166770386.jpg[/mg]
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Postby Wisse on Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:18 pm

hulmey wrote:Marv its the way you talk to people...You are very arrogant , rude,short and sacarstic...Could be coz your not english and dont understand how to communicate and get the best out of people. But thats just my opinon...

I had never posted in map foundry before. Didnt get a very nice welcome from you.. Here is the thread

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... highlight=

but he did have a point, didn't he? :P
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Postby dafranca on Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:30 am

Ruben,

Your map is very nice... but your map will never go to Final Forge unless you improve gameability.

My suggestion to get your map in to the track:
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I still don't like continents with only 3 countries, but since you have 2 continents with 3 countries and 2 more with 4 countries I would considered this new version playable, and candidate to Final Forge pretty soon.


I look forward to play this map.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:10 pm

Marvaddin wrote:Maaan, Im tired of this, are you retarded? So you think I dont understand what I was discussing? Why? Couldnt I know what was being discussed and dislike it as it was? Now when I say this map is shit its not my opinion?? Maaaaaaan, you know what I think and what I like better than me, huh?

Hey! Wasnt me to mention one post from other thread at least 3 times because I gave some suggestions you asked for about the legend of this one. I would understand if you admit you wouldnt like to change the legend to keep the photo of your grandpa, but you is the one that cant make any argumentation. I suggest something, because I suggested, you dislike and doesnt change anything without a reason, but so if Andy talk the same thing, you change it, heh? Like the caps in the legend. Oh, sorry, you cant discuss anything and prove yourself correct, looks like you will still change those bad designed continents, it seems people agree me about not being good those with 4 countries and 4 borders or sort of. And, you really changed your map tons of times, and restarted like 4 times... so, what are you as map maker? Unexperienced? Why cant you put yourself in your place and improve your map instead of just qualify opinions as negatives? If you have a reason to do something, let us know, mate.

And dont worry, I will still post my feedback here (not being, like you said, just post that it sucks) to make your map more alike to what I like than to what you had thought, since you cant prove your points and looks like people support what I think.

Now, please stop to attack my soft feelings ( :twisted: ) and start to talk about the map, man. At least, if you are not going to give up. We can start a thread in the flame wars forum, if you want, it would be an easy grab to me, but I wont to discuss anything personal in this thread again.


Do you honestly think I would waste more time dealing with you in the flame wars forum? I must admit that at first I was irritated by your silly posts, but now I realise how pathetic you are and I pity you. My advice is to seek counselling from a pyschologist to solve your many issues. Good luck!
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:12 pm

Just as a recap because I feel the topic has diverted too much from the map, these are the last amendments I effected.

Amendments:
1. Added border to islands
2. Modified Land's End symbols
3. Modified Bonus Legend - changed fonts
4. Modified Bonus Legend - reduced size of bonus box
5. Added Maltese fonts to the map (Note different letters unique to the Maltese alphabet - Ħħ, Ċċ, Ġġ, Żż)


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Postby Ruben Cassar on Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:19 pm

dafranca wrote:Ruben,

Your map is very nice... but your map will never go to Final Forge unless you improve gameability.

My suggestion to get your map in to the track:

I still don't like continents with only 3 countries, but since you have 2 continents with 3 countries and 2 more with 4 countries I would considered this new version playable, and candidate to Final Forge pretty soon.


I look forward to play this map.


Dafranca...are you suggesting I add those borders? I thanks you for tour input, and to be honest it wouldn't be a problem for me to add them, but I am actually trying to create a different map than the ones we have as I mentioned before:

"I am trying to create a map where a player would have to think a lot about defence and not only about attack, that's why there are many territories with borders. A player would have to think carefully before over expanding and leaving his territories unguarded.

I realise that this formula might not be like that of most of the other maps available, but I am trying to create something different. Apart from thinking more about defence, I think this would make the outcome of the game more unpredictable."

I have been getting mixed responses about this. Some people like the idea, others think that it won't work. However if you never try something new and different you will never know if it works. I suggest that we keep the current version and if when people play it they find it doesn't work I could easily modify it. However I want people to try it out before and see how it feels. I don't know if this is possible, I will speak with Andy about it.
Last edited by Ruben Cassar on Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Z-Owned-You on Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:37 pm

I love the new verison, i would deffinately play it. I also like the defence instead of attack idea. Good job!
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Postby Marvaddin on Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:01 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:Do you honestly think I would waste more time dealing with you in the flame wars forum? I must admit that at first I was irritated by your silly posts, but now I realise how pathetic you are and I pity you. My advice is to seek counselling from a pyschologist to solve your many issues. Good luck!

No, I honestly know you prefer continue attacking me in this thread... Another very usefull post from you, huh? And you still have courage to call me unpolite... :P

In fact, I had realized how pathetic you are much time ago... but as you are the only one that know my problems, since you know what I think and feel better than me, PLEASE BE MY PYSCHOLOGIST. :lol: :lol: :lol:

About the map... wait, why should I post? You know what I think better than me, so...

Seriously, quit attacking me and I will show some mercy.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:49 pm

It's starting to come along. A few things.
  • I still don't like the fact the title is pushed way into the corner. Too me, the focus is in the wrong spot visually. Your eyes are attracted to the pretty pictures, but I think the title should be one of the first things you should see.
  • The bonus legend is looking better, though no the shapes describing each color.
  • Again, I think if you reduced the size of descriptions of the all the extra features (not the continental names), that would help give the legend a smoother feel and visual trick for the eye.
  • Also, I'd consider playing around with the Land's End placement. Perhaps try them a little larger in size, and pushing out into the water a little. I don't want to see them get lost. Also try to keep them uniform in color.
  • Impassable borders suck, bottom line! What is appealing about the balls? I think there has to be some better visuals out there somewhere for a rock wall type feel, lets do some research.
  • Perhaps different placement for the compass, as it feels scrunched with the title.
  • I think your army shadows may be too small to fit 2 army coordinates. I'd look into resizing them larger, and once we can see how the numbers look, perhaps even changing they 3 different colors you have for them.
  • I'd consider boosting the thickness of border lines from 1px to slightly bigger. ;) They almost get lost into all the colors. I don't mean make them 7mm thick, but slightly thicker.
  • Also, rethink color choices. Three variants of blue, may not be a good choice...for communication with partners during team play...cause I know many people will not type out many of the continent names. Look into replacing the Gozo light blue with a purple perhaps, or a faded red. Etc
  • Also, look into toning down the bright colors. Light, fantastic colors are alright, but don't let them be too blinding bright.
  • The border along the water is looking better, but still look into making it seem perhaps less fuzzy.

I'll comment more on playability later.


--Andy
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:29 am

AndyDufresne wrote:It's starting to come along. A few things.
  • I still don't like the fact the title is pushed way into the corner. Too me, the focus is in the wrong spot visually. Your eyes are attracted to the pretty pictures, but I think the title should be one of the first things you should see.
  • The bonus legend is looking better, though no the shapes describing each color.
  • Again, I think if you reduced the size of descriptions of the all the extra features (not the continental names), that would help give the legend a smoother feel and visual trick for the eye.
  • Also, I'd consider playing around with the Land's End placement. Perhaps try them a little larger in size, and pushing out into the water a little. I don't want to see them get lost. Also try to keep them uniform in color.
  • Impassable borders suck, bottom line! What is appealing about the balls? I think there has to be some better visuals out there somewhere for a rock wall type feel, lets do some research.
  • Perhaps different placement for the compass, as it feels scrunched with the title.
  • I think your army shadows may be too small to fit 2 army coordinates. I'd look into resizing them larger, and once we can see how the numbers look, perhaps even changing they 3 different colors you have for them.
  • I'd consider boosting the thickness of border lines from 1px to slightly bigger. ;) They almost get lost into all the colors. I don't mean make them 7mm thick, but slightly thicker.
  • Also, rethink color choices. Three variants of blue, may not be a good choice...for communication with partners during team play...cause I know many people will not type out many of the continent names. Look into replacing the Gozo light blue with a purple perhaps, or a faded red. Etc
  • Also, look into toning down the bright colors. Light, fantastic colors are alright, but don't let them be too blinding bright.
  • The border along the water is looking better, but still look into making it seem perhaps less fuzzy.
I'll comment more on playability later.


--Andy


1. Apart from the placement of the title...should I enlarge the font or is the right size?
2. Land's End: I tried to put them slightly in the water as you suggested but the result was confusing. I will try to enlarge them and see if that's better.
3. I am not satisfied with the impassable borders either. I will try to make them better in the next revision. I haven't had time to make that improvement yet. Anyone who would like to send me an impassable border graphic which I can try out is very welcome to do so!
4. I will resize the army colours...however I have two shades not three! :p
5. Colour choices. I have already changed those from the previous version to try to make them better. Can you pin point the ones that are wrong and maybe suggest a different colour cause I can't seem to get them right!

I will look into these issues in the next revision. Happy New Year to all you people out there! Don't drink too much! ;)
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:59 pm

Version 4.11C

Amendments effected:

1. New title/pictures layout.
2. Moved title to the centre.
3. Added background for title.
4. Changed pictures position.
5. Reduced pictures size.
6. Added Malta flag top left corner.
7. Bonus Legend: Reduced extra bonus font, made it italic.
8. Bonus Legend: New shapes for region colour.
9. Bonus Legend: Removed bonus numbers from region names.
10. Bonus Legend: Added number inside shapes.
11. Enlarged and changed colour of Land's End Bonuses

Still working on:

1. Impassable borders graphics
2. Possible changes to regions' colour schemes

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Postby Marvaddin on Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:14 pm

Its very strange that the Malta flag is much smaller than that compass, dont you agree? You could exchange their position, making the flag bigger. Or even better, move the legend nearer the map, put just the Malta flag, and reduce the image size some pixels. In fact, wasted space there, and to North and South the map is too near the image border, add some pixels wouldnt be a bad thing.
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Postby qeee1 on Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:46 pm

As regards the emphasis on defence you keep bringing up, I'd have to come down alongside marvaddin (only not so offensive).

The Ireland map tried a similar idea, have a look at that map and see what you think. Personally I don't think having many borders works with the games mechanics, it removes a certain amount of strategy, but maybe that's just because I keep losing on that map.

Anyway I recommend you pay close attention to the strategy used in your Ireland games.
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Postby Bad Speler on Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:00 pm

I know ive mentioned this before, but you might have missed it, or i might have missed the reply, but i think that the darker grey army circles should have a little transparency, also, Filfla's army circle should be the same shade as the others in the same continent, in my opinion.
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Postby dafranca on Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:39 pm

Ruben Cassar,

Looks like lots of players are unhappy with your impassible borders.
Why don't you make two versions - the way you want with a few impassible borders and other version with less borders - and take a poll?
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Postby onbekende on Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:01 am

idiotic request of mine (but some people need to have that too, I hope)

the legend with bonusses, orderd from north to south (top to buttom) like on the map the continents are.

Tramuntana ta' Ghawdex
Il-Ponta ta' Ghawdex u Kemmuna
Nofsinhar ta' Ghawdex
Tramuntana ta' Malta
Lvant ta' Malta
Parti Centrali
Port il-Kbir
Punent ta' Malta
Nofsinhar ta' malta


but let first more people agree
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:55 am

Marvaddin wrote:Its very strange that the Malta flag is much smaller than that compass, dont you agree? You could exchange their position, making the flag bigger. Or even better, move the legend nearer the map, put just the Malta flag, and reduce the image size some pixels. In fact, wasted space there, and to North and South the map is too near the image border, add some pixels wouldnt be a bad thing.


Hmm. I'd like to keep them both. Maybe I could change their location a bit as you suggested or reduce the size of the compass...I'll see what I can do.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:56 am

Bad Speler wrote:I know ive mentioned this before, but you might have missed it, or i might have missed the reply, but i think that the darker grey army circles should have a little transparency, also, Filfla's army circle should be the same shade as the others in the same continent, in my opinion.


As I said before I changed some of the shadows for visibility purposes because of the background colours. I will try to make some changes to the shadows maybe I can use only one shadow for all the regions.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:59 am

dafranca wrote:Ruben Cassar,

Looks like lots of players are unhappy with your impassible borders.
Why don't you make two versions - the way you want with a few impassible borders and other version with less borders - and take a poll?


Actually I got a mixed response. Some people are for focus on defence, while other want to add more impassable borders. Personally I want to focus on defence, but seeing that this issue continues to come up I think I might have to run a poll even though I really wanted to make this map different in this aspect.

qeee1 mentioned that the Ireland map is somewhat similar in this aspect. I never paid much attention to that. I will check that when I play on it.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:01 am

onbekende wrote:idiotic request of mine (but some people need to have that too, I hope)

the legend with bonusses, orderd from north to south (top to buttom) like on the map the continents are.

Tramuntana ta' Ghawdex
Il-Ponta ta' Ghawdex u Kemmuna
Nofsinhar ta' Ghawdex
Tramuntana ta' Malta
Lvant ta' Malta
Parti Centrali
Port il-Kbir
Punent ta' Malta
Nofsinhar ta' malta


but let first more people agree


Ah you mean the chronological order. Hehe. You people notice everything. I decided to start with the most important and strategic region of Malta and then move in a clockwise order, that's why I have that order.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:00 am

Version 4.12

I did some minor amendments from Version 4.11C

I reduced the size of the compass and moved it to another location. I enlarged the Malta flag and lowered its position. I also moved the graphics of the extra bonuses.

Is it better this way?

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