Europa [Quenched]

[Ruben Cassar]

Thanks for the feedback edbeard.

I'm not convinced by the way Turkey is right now either - but I'll leave it for the weekend to get some more feedback.


On a slightly different subject, the Pale Salmon continent is going to be renamed Caucasus (Armenia/Georgia/Azerbaijan). i need a name for Russia/Kaliningrad/Turkey... I'll probably leave that bit as Asian Borders, but what about Russkey ?

I think Turkey is fine as it is. European Turkey is part of Europe and it doesn't connect to the Caucasus so it shouldn't be able to attack that region.

Why do you need a name for Russia and Kaliningrad? They are part of Eastern Europe. Maybe I am not understanding what you mean here.

[Ruben Cassar]

The idea of a mountain border between Italy/Switzerland/Austria is growing on me; but I tried to draw some mountains there and they looked awful - they looked messy and very UN-mountain-like. I'll keep trying things there though.

You should put the mountains in all of Europe. Not only the Alps but also the Pyrennes (division of Spain and France) and the Apennines and Urals (in Russia) if they are useful for gameplay. I am sure the first two (Alps and Pyrennes) are useful for gameplay.

If you have problems with the mountain graphics I am sure some other map makers will be willing to help you with the graphics if you ask nicely.

[Ogrecrusher]

I think a Malta --> Crete link is needed to stop Cyprus becoming a blind alley.

Edit: Also noticed that Monaco seems to have destroyed the France Italy border, maybe you're aware of this.

[Erdem559]

I like the new revamp... but still I don't like the med.

[Coleman]

You need to update that mini-map now. And your legend since those med. islands are no longer their own continent.

[MrBenn]

I like the new revamp... but still I don't like the med.

Glad you like the map - welcome to the Foundry!

"hat is it about the Med that you don't like? If you elaborate slightly more, then I've got something to work with.

[MrBenn]

You need to update that mini-map now. And your legend since those med. islands are no longer their own continent.

Both on my 'to do' list: I want to get the big map mainly sorted before I make the mini-map...

[MrBenn]

The idea of a mountain border between Italy/Switzerland/Austria is growing on me; but I tried to draw some mountains there and they looked awful - they looked messy and very UN-mountain-like. I'll keep trying things there though.

You should put the mountains in all of Europe. Not only the Alps but also the Pyrennes (division of Spain and France) and the Apennines and Urals (in Russia) if they are useful for gameplay. I am sure the first two (Alps and Pyrennes) are useful for gameplay.

If you have problems with the mountain graphics I am sure some other map makers will be willing to help you with the graphics if you ask nicely.

I only really want to put the features in where they help gameplay - so I'm not too sure about the Pyrenees. The Urals would be hidden by the book inset, so don't see any point doing them!

[oaktown]

I'm trying to revive the Maps In Development thread in GD... if you'd like to be included please post a description of your map!

http://conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

[militant]

I apolagise if this has been brought up before, but i reallly dislike the small continent Asian Borders, because it is +2 with is really high (IMO) for 3 countries with only 3 borders to protect

[fireedud]

Do you have to own KGD to get the Asian Borders to +4?

[Qwert]

qwert wrote:

Quote:

Somebody suggested putting Greece into the Balkans (for playability reasons), and that seems to make a bit of sense.

i live in Balkan,and if you want to know what Country is a part of balkan

I still think that the continent groupings need a bit of refinement... I'm happier with the ones I've got now gameplaywise, but still think they can be improved.

Now i repeat again,if you want to create map like you wrote in your tittle,and if you start change things only to please some people,and dont want to create what you want(real europe map)then these is wrong way.I know,and you know that Greece is a part of Balkan,and nobody can find valid reason to change these,also you have all right to put Greece to be a part of Balkan Peninsula.

[MrBenn]

I apolagise if this has been brought up before, but i reallly dislike the small continent Asian Borders, because it is +2 with is really high (IMO) for 3 countries with only 3 borders to protect

We haven't really started any gameplay discussion, although there is plenty of debate going on in my head! Thanks for the input - I'll take it on board once I'm happy with the overall visual aspects.

Do you have to own KGD to get the Asian Borders to +4?

Kalingrad is part of Russia in real-life, so yes, it will be part of that continent.... Are there many maps that have non-adjacent territories in the same continent? It has to be a gameplay feature, surely?

Now i repeat again,if you want to create map like you wrote in your tittle,and if you start change things only to please some people,and dont want to create what you want(real europe map)then these is wrong way.I know,and you know that Greece is a part of Balkan,and nobody can find valid reason to change these,also you have all right to put Greece to be a part of Balkan Peninsula.

If I move Greece into the Balkans, what should I do with Crete and Cyprus? They are both Meditteranean Islands, but Crete is a Greek territory, and Cyprus is disputed Greek/Turkish. I don't really want to put Turkey in with the Balkans, as most of Turkey is in Asia and not Europe... My inclination is to include Greece in the Balkan States 'continent' (which makes it slightly easier to hold), and leave the islands in the Med (after modifying some sea routes).

I'm trying to revive the Maps In Development thread in GD... if you'd like to be included please post a description of your map!

I'll work something out, but it will probably be after the weekend.

[Ruben Cassar]

Do you have to own KGD to get the Asian Borders to +4?

Kalingrad is part of Russia in real-life, so yes, it will be part of that continent.... Are there many maps that have non-adjacent territories in the same continent? It has to be a gameplay feature, surely?

Now i repeat again,if you want to create map like you wrote in your tittle,and if you start change things only to please some people,and dont want to create what you want(real europe map)then these is wrong way.I know,and you know that Greece is a part of Balkan,and nobody can find valid reason to change these,also you have all right to put Greece to be a part of Balkan Peninsula.

If I move Greece into the Balkans, what should I do with Crete and Cyprus? They are both Meditteranean Islands, but Crete is a Greek territory, and Cyprus is disputed Greek/Turkish. I don't really want to put Turkey in with the Balkans, as most of Turkey is in Asia and not Europe... My inclination is to include Greece in the Balkan States 'continent' (which makes it slightly easier to hold), and leave the islands in the Med (after modifying some sea routes).

If someone is going to do a Europe map it must be as accurate as possible at this stage so:

1. Russia is part of Europe. It is part of Eastern Europe. You cannot decide to add it in a continent with Turkey when these 2 nations have nothing in common! Did you check the nation grouping I gave you?

2. If you are going to add a continent called the Balkans then Greece and Crete must be part of it. The reason? Because that's how they are considered in real life. Once again I outlined this in the post about the nation groupings.

3. Cyprus is not disputed by Greece and Turkey. Cyprus is an independent country. It is composed of roughly 2/3 ethnic Greeks and 1/3 ethnic Turks. However it is an independent state. I suggested putting this as a neutral country. One which you can conquer but does not make up of any bonuses derived from continents.

I suggest that you put Eastern Turkey as part of the Balkans (because that's what it is in real life) and Cyprus as a neutral territory. Russia must be part of Eastern Europe.

[Qwert]

Do you want to create real Europe map? If you want then you must apply all logical and normal reason of people.
If you think that i give you some stypid and not logical sugestion,then you can refuse to do these,but you must give me some logical explanation why you not want to do these.
Sorry but for me reason like " they will be easy to hold" not good reason.

[EmperorOfDaNorth]

[removed by author; I changed my mind. ]

[EmperorOfDaNorth]

I like the map!! As an *addition* obviously, not as a replacement of the current Europe map.

Further comments:

* I don't think the tiniest states are necessary, like Liechtenstein en Luxemburg, San Marino.. they're too tiny to even see on the map. And I don't even know what "Kgd." is.

* But do keep Vatican City. I like it, as shown by my Avatar.

* Also keep Gibraltar, but perhaps make it part of a 'mediterranean seas' continent: You need to hold Gibraltar to hold the Mediterranean and other seas beyond it. I kind of like that bit of realism and elevates the strategic importance of Gibraltar.

* So to make up for the lost tiny territories that can't be seen with the naked eye, consider making (some of) the seas into territories?

I don't really have an opinion on what should be continents or how the bonuses should go. About the Greece issue, maybe make it part of the Asian borders thing. But I don't really mind either way.

I do think Turkey should be in. Historically in a strategic sense they're been a player in their region of Europe.

[MrBenn]

Update #8


Changes:
-Put Greece into Balkans
-Seperated European Turkey from the Asian bit of Turkey, and removed the border from the grey bit of Asia
-I've added a Crete/Malta sea route to help gameplay
-Updated the 'continent' names on the legend.
-Redrawn the Hungarian bit of the River Danube so it looks vaguely bridgey
-Drawn (very badly) the Alps as an impassable from Italy to Central Europe.
-Chnaged some colours very slightly where they didn't quite match

To Do:
-Get some decent looking mountains to replace the ones I've drawn for the Alps.
-Update the mini-map in the legend
-Think some more about the small map
-Any other things that people notice!

PS: Please can a mod take down the poll now. Thanks.

[Qwert]

these is look better,but you still need to European Turkey put in Balkan to.

[MrBenn]

Qwert - I didn't mean to offend/upset/ignore you. Your suggestions have been very helpful, and you will see that I have included Greece in the Balkan States in the latest update.

Ruben Cassar - Thank you too for your suggestions. I have taken these on board while considering how to make the map as accurate as possible while allowing for good gameplay. I have decided to have Turkey and Russia(+ Kaliningrad) in a continent together, as they are both Transcontinental (have territory in Europe and Asia).

I have chosen to keep Crete and Cyprus as part of the Meditteranean 'continent' as they are both Meditteranean Islands.

EmperorOfDaNorth - I'm confused by your suggestion to get rid of all the small countries except Vatican City, as it seems contradictory.
The idea of having seas as territories is interesting, but doesn't appeal to me, and doesn't really fit with the concept of this map - besides, I'm going to have trouble with the small map as it is!

Militant - A +2 bonus for 3 countries with 2 borders to protect doesn't seem high to me. Capturing the continet shouldn't be too difficult, but keeping it will be - Austrailia on Classic is easier to hold and has a +2 bonus....

Oaktown - I will try and write a description of the map when I'm not too tired, and can think about it properly! (I'll add it to my 'To Do' list on p1!

[Chirondom]

Pretty good, pretty good.

The thing is, how is this that much different from regular Europe? It's more geographically correct, yes, but what makes it different enough to warrant its own map? It's not all that much bigger. I really think you should do more subcontinents and the like.

[iancanton]

this is a good step forward, especially in the med.

i agree with both qwert and ruben cassar that european turkey has to be in the balkans. historically and geographically, that's where it is. with turkey in the balkans, the black sea attack route looks out of place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans

while on the subject of the balkans, croatia must grow in size (sorry, qwert!). the coastal part needs to be extended so that it can attack montenegro.

http://www.map-of-croatia.co.uk/

we now have a huge green continent in the middle which is no-one's favourite to occupy. for gameplay reasons (a larger continent in the corner and smaller one in the middle is more balanced than vice versa), i suggest a different split: belarus, ukraine and moldova to be grouped with european russia, kaliningrad and the caucasus as a cis (commonwealth of independent states) continent, while the rest of the greens remain as eastern europe. draw the impassable river prut as a border between east european romania and cis moldova, to reach the black sea.

http://www.cis.minsk.by/main.aspx?uid=3390

ian.

[oaktown]

PS: Please can a mod take down the poll now. Thanks.

On it... in the future you can PM me to remove polls.


Poll results:

How would you group the territories into continents?
They're fine how they are: 30% [ 4 ]
They need changing, but I can't think of anything better: 30% [ 4 ]
They need changing - see my suggestion on the thread.: 38% [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 13

[oaktown]

have you considered losing the attack route from Malta to Crete? It doesn't make sense, and it results in the map basically playing like the present European map, with the islands in place of northern europe.

Trouble is, then you have a bottleneck leading to a dead end... unless you dropped cyprus altogether. While is may have political ties to europe, geographically it is part of Asia Minor.

Does Servia connect to Romania?

[yeti_c]

Does Servia connect to Romania?

No - but I can see why you thought that - the space in River Danube could do with being shunted up a couple of pixels...

- On Turkey - I do think it looks a bit weird it being all on it's own over there!! (I still think it's weird that you've not included the whole country!)

C.

PS Loving this map... can't wait for a good european map to be on the site.