Re: RAIL ASIA [1.11.12] QUENCHED

[cairnswk]

Both Marshal and I suggested M's decrease to +1. I think it's a valid concern that a bonus of +2 would be too high for it's borders, territory count, position, and expansion opportunities (i.e. L - Indonesian).

-Sully

Yeh, thanks Sully, i haven't got down to bottom half of that post that why i put

I'll add more shortly about those other changes.

[Victor Sullivan]

Oh, okay, gotcha

-Sully

[cairnswk]

...

After digesting these figures, I have the following recommendations:

... and then there's the Rail D bonus. It's a white elephant, even worse than Asia in Classic. Nobody but nobody is going to collect this bonus until the game is decided already in their favor. Yet, you already have more than enough bonuses, so splitting it up doesn't look like a good idea. You could palm some of its regions off to other rails maybe, but this would only make the other rails non-viable while not really helping Rail D significantly. In light of the fact that the number of total deployable regions on the map is a very unfavorable number, I would be inclined to recommend that you chop out some of the stations in Rail D... but that's just my first thought and any other idea that might reasonably reduce the borders of this bonus would be welcome.

As for your neutrals... they could be moved to better spots to prevent dropping bonuses. The most obvious move to me is the neutral on the F-Rail. Move it to Tblisi Station, since that's a very droppable bonus at the moment and needs a neutral. Thus two birds with one stone.

The second thing that I would do with the neutrals is to get rid of the neutral on Rail H. It's not needed... if it turns out that you need the neutral for your total region count to be a golden number, move it to Rail L.

Finally, as mentioned earlier the total number of deployable regions for this map (73 regions) is a non-golden (one might say black) number. Some adjustments need to be made to either increase or decrease it to a golden number.

-- Marshal Ney

P.S. I didn't give a rationale for my suggestions for raising or lowering the bonuses (other than Rail D), but if one compares the values between like rails, most of them are self-explanatory. Rail M is too good of a deal for +2... I think that a bonus should not be both easy and more efficient than larger bonuses; rather a small bonus should be a tradeoff (easier to take and hold, but less efficient). Otherwise it dominates the strategy disproportionately.

Here is my solution for Rail D
It's still a large bonus, but it now gives 82 regions so only to have to start neutral to get the 80 golden number.
I'll get back to the other side adjustment like M shortly...need some more sleep.

Version 11.

Click image to enlarge.

[Victor Sullivan]

Looks good, though I'd reduce Beijing's bonus to +5.

-Sully

[cairnswk]

MarshalNey wrote:...

P.S. I didn't give a rationale for my suggestions for raising or lowering the bonuses (other than Rail D), but if one compares the values between like rails, most of them are self-explanatory. Rail M is too good of a deal for +2... I think that a bonus should not be both easy and more efficient than larger bonuses; rather a small bonus should be a tradeoff (easier to take and hold, but less efficient). Otherwise it dominates the strategy disproportionately.



My side of the coin for Rail M being +2 is that it still have two borders to defend therefore if the player who gets that railway is to defend it, they need one each side to continue to hold it, the same with Indonesia and Japan, and it backs onto that large Southern Chinese Rail.

After digesting these figures, I have the following recommendations:
Rail M bonus lowered from +2 to +1


I'd like to keep the +2

Not sure what you mean with the "and one extra border added" - do you want another border added in order to justify the bonus?

Rail G bonus raised from +2 to +3, and one extra border added


Now Rail I Arabian - Done

Rail J bonus raised from +3 to +4 and one extra border added


Now Rail L Indian - Done

Rail H bonus raised from +3 to +4


Now Rail J Iranian - Done

Rail K bonus raised from +4 to +5


Now Rail M SE Asia - Done

The second thing that I would do with the neutrals is to get rid of the neutral on Rail H. It's not needed... if it turns out that you need the neutral for your total region count to be a golden number, move it to Rail L.


I don't think there are any need for neutrals now

Finally, as mentioned earlier the total number of deployable regions for this map (73 regions) is a non-golden (one might say black) number. Some adjustments need to be made to either increase or decrease it to a golden number.
-- Marshal Ney


Golden number should now be 80, i hope.

Version 12
Beijing D will have to be noted as D1 and D2...not put in yet, but will adjust.
Confirmed in the xml there is now 80 regions.


Version 12

Click image to enlarge.

[cairnswk]

Looks good, though I'd reduce Beijing's bonus to +5.
-Sully

Chopping and changing Sully.
Beiing is now a 4 region terminal, so have adjusted that to +3, same as Tbilisi.

[cairnswk]

Version 12

Click image to enlarge.

[Victor Sullivan]

D to +5, F to +6... As far as BJN is concerned, I'm a little confused as to why there are two D stations.

-Sully

[cairnswk]

D to +5, F to +6... As far as BJN is concerned, I'm a little confused as to why there are two D stations.

-Sully

Sully, i thought that creating a triangle for that wouldn't look right.
So i created the same as Tbilisi.
so two of the sides had to be D platforms.

[Victor Sullivan]

D to +5, F to +6... As far as BJN is concerned, I'm a little confused as to why there are two D stations.

-Sully

Sully, i thought that creating a triangle for that wouldn't look right.
So i created the same as Tbilisi.
so two of the sides had to be D platforms.

Fair enough, I suppose.

-Sully

[cairnswk]

D to +5, F to +6... As far as BJN is concerned, I'm a little confused as to why there are two D stations.

-Sully

Sully, i thought that creating a triangle for that wouldn't look right.
So i created the same as Tbilisi.
so two of the sides had to be D platforms.

Fair enough, I suppose.

-Sully

I just tried it again with triangles, and the outer triangle has to be quite large (because of the acute angles) in order to fit the lilne designator in that outside space.
Do you have an alternative, and is there any real problem with having it that way.

[cairnswk]

...
Fair enough, I suppose.
-Sully

Sully, i found a configuration that kinda works for me, i'm not totally happy with it, but it cuts the lines down to three in Bejing.
Does this work for you also?

[ender516]

I thought it quite reasonable for a city the size of Beijing to have two stations on one line, but the naming convention would need some tweaking. The new configuration has some appeal, as it resembles a brilliant cut diamond seen in profile. With one less station in D, is it still worth 5?

[cairnswk]

I thought it quite reasonable for a city the size of Beijing to have two stations on one line, but the naming convention would need some tweaking. The new configuration has some appeal, as it resembles a brilliant cut diamond seen in profile. With one less station in D, is it still worth 5?

Thanks ender516.
my calculator says it's only worth +4.

[cairnswk]

If everyone is happy with this graphic for BJN, then i'll run with that, i think apart from that bonus for N Chinese ?, everything is set for gameplay.

[TaCktiX]

Now that I'm looking at it, the font for the bonus names does the letter "N" no favors that small. Any chance of a slightly different one?

[cairnswk]

Now that I'm looking at it, the font for the bonus names does the letter "N" no favors that small. Any chance of a slightly different one?

No worries TaCktiX, i'll attend to that. Thanks.

[cairnswk]

If everyone is happy with this graphic for BJN, then i'll run with that, i think apart from that bonus for N Chinese ?, everything is set for gameplay.

Bugger, now that i've reduced BJN to 1 nothern terminus, there are only 79 stations....solution...to come shortly

[cairnswk]

If everyone is happy with this graphic for BJN, then i'll run with that, i think apart from that bonus for N Chinese ?, everything is set for gameplay.

Bugger, now that i've reduced BJN to 1 nothern terminus, there are only 79 stations....solution...to come shortly

Inserted between NVK and IRK is Taishet TAI - it won't affect the bonus for Siberian.

Version 14

[cairnswk]

Now that I'm looking at it, the font for the bonus names does the letter "N" no favors that small. Any chance of a slightly different one?

No worries TaCktiX, i'll attend to that. Thanks.

Should appear in V14.

[cairnswk]

XML complete for small map only
http://h1.ripway.com/cairnswk/_rail_asia.xml

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<map>
<continent>
   <name>Russian A</name>
   <bonus>5</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi A</territory>
      <territory>MOW Moscow A</territory>
      <territory>VOG Volgograd A</territory>
      <territory>ORB Orenburg A</territory>
      <territory>EKB Ekaterinburg A</territory>
      <territory>AST Astana A and B</territory>
      <territory>NVK Novosibursk A</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>The Stanz</name>
   <bonus>5</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>AST Astana A and B</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe B</territory>
      <territory>BAQ Balqash B</territory>
      <territory>KAZ Kazalinsk B</territory>
      <territory>AKY Aktay B</territory>
      <territory>MHD Mashhad B and J</territory>
      <territory>SMQ Samarqand B</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Siberian</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>NVK Novosibursk C</territory>
      <territory>IRK Irkutsk C</territory>
      <territory>ULB Ulaanbaatar C</territory>
      <territory>KRY Karymskoye C</territory>
      <territory>VST Vladivostock C</territory>
      <territory>TAI Taishet C</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>N Chinese</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>ULB Ulaanbaatar D</territory>
      <territory>KRY Karymskoye D</territory>
      <territory>HBN Habin D</territory>
      <territory>VST Vladivostock D</territory>
      <territory>SOL Soeul D</territory>
      <territory>BJN Beijing D</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Japanese</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>SAP Sapporo E</territory>
      <territory>TYO Tokyo E</territory>
      <territory>OSA Osaka E</territory>
      <territory>KAG Kagoshima E</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>S Chinese</name>
   <bonus>6</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>BJN Beijing F</territory>
      <territory>ZHZ Zhengzhou G and F</territory>
      <territory>SHG Shanghai F</territory>
      <territory>HKG Hong Kong F</territory>
      <territory>HAN Hanoi F</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>W Chinese</name>
   <bonus>5</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe G</territory>
      <territory>HOT Hotan G</territory>
      <territory>LNZ Lanzhou G</territory>
      <territory>BJN Beijing G</territory>
      <territory>ZHZ Zhengzhou G and F</territory>
      <territory>KUN Kunming G and F</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>West Asia</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi H</territory>
      <territory>IST Instanbul H</territory>
      <territory>TLV Tel Aviv H</territory>
      <territory>PSD Port Said H and I</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Arabian</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi I</territory>
      <territory>BGW Baghdad I</territory>
      <territory>RUH Ar Riyad I</territory>
      <territory>DXB Dubai I</territory>
      <territory>ADE Aden I</territory>
      <territory>PSD Port Said H and I</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Iranian</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi J</territory>
      <territory>THR Tehran J</territory>
      <territory>MHD Mashhad B and J</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe J</territory>
      <territory>TAF Taftan J</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Pakistani</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>TAF Taftan K</territory>
      <territory>KHI Karachi K</territory>
      <territory>ISL Islamabad K</territory>
      <territory>KBL Kabul K</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe K</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Indian</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe L</territory>
      <territory>KHI Karachi L</territory>
      <territory>NDH New Delhi L</territory>
      <territory>RGP Rangpur L</territory>
      <territory>MBA Mumbai L</territory>
      <territory>CHN Chennai L</territory>
      <territory>KAL Karungalam L</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>SE Asian</name>
   <bonus>5</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>RGP Rangpur M</territory>
      <territory>KUN Kunming M</territory>
      <territory>HAN Hanoi M</territory>
      <territory>BKK Bangkok M</territory>
      <territory>HCM Ho Chi Min City M</territory>
      <territory>KLM Kuala Lumpur M</territory>
      <territory>SIN Singapore M</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Indonesian</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>BAA Banda Aceh N</territory>
      <territory>JKT Jakarta N</territory>
      <territory>KTP Ketapang N</territory>
      <territory>BTK Batakan N</territory>
      <territory>SDK Sandakan N</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Philippino</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>STC Santos City O</territory>
      <territory>MNL Manilla O</territory>
      <territory>ARR Aparri O</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>All Tbilisi TSB</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi A</territory>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi H</territory>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi I</territory>
      <territory>TBS Tbilisi J</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>All Dushanbe DSH</name>
   <bonus>4</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe B</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe G</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe J</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe K</territory>
      <territory>DSH Dushanbe L</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>All Beijing BJN</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>BJN Beijing D</territory>
      <territory>BJN Beijing F</territory>
      <territory>BJN Beijing G</territory>
   </components>
</continent>
<territory>
   <name>PSD Port Said H and I</name>
   <borders>
      <border>TLV Tel Aviv H</border>
      <border>RUH Ar Riyad I</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>40</smallx>
      <smally>270</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>MHD Mashhad B and J</name>
   <borders>
      <border>THR Tehran J</border>
      <border>AKY Aktay B</border>
      <border>DSH Dushanbe J</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>211</smallx>
      <smally>215</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>AST Astana A and B</name>
   <borders>
      <border>NVK Novosibursk A</border>
      <border>BAQ Balqash B</border>
      <border>KAZ Kazalinsk B</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>274</smallx>
      <smally>83</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>KUN Kunming G and F</name>
   <borders>
      <border>KUN Kunming M</border>
      <border>ZHZ Zhengzhou G and F</border>
      <border>LNZ Lanzhou G</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>469</smallx>
      <smally>273</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>ZHZ Zhengzhou G and F</name>
   <borders>
      <border>KUN Kunming G and F</border>
      <border>LNZ Lanzhou G</border>
      <border>BJN Beijing F</border>
      <border>SHG Shanghai F</border>
      <border>HAN Hanoi F</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>529</smallx>
      <smally>256</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>MOW Moscow A</name>
   <borders>
      <border>VOG Volgograd A</border>
      <border>ORB Orenburg A</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>74</smallx>
      <smally>51</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>TBS Tbilisi A</name>
   <borders>
      <border>VOG Volgograd A</border>
      <border>TBS Tbilisi J</border>
      <border>TBS Tbilisi I</border>
      <border>TBS Tbilisi H</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>40</smallx>
      <smally>97</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>VOG Volgograd A</name>
   <borders>
      <border>TBS Tbilisi A</border>
      <border>MOW Moscow A</border>
      <border>ORB Orenburg A</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>136</smallx>
      <smally>102</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>ORB Orenburg A</name>
   <borders>
      <border>VOG Volgograd A</border>
      <border>MOW Moscow A</border>
      <border>ORB Orenburg B</border>
      <border>EKB Ekaterinburg A</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>184</smallx>
      <smally>62</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>NVK Novosibursk A</name>
   <borders>
      <border>NVK Novosibursk C</border>
      <border>AST Astana A and B</border>
      <border>EKB Ekaterinburg A</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>347</smallx>
      <smally>64</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>EKB Ekaterinburg A</name>
   <borders>
      <border>ORB Orenburg A</border>
      <border>NVK Novosibursk A</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>237</smallx>
      <smally>43</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>ORB Orenburg B</name>
   <borders>
      <border>ORB Orenburg A</border>
      <border>KAZ Kazalinsk B</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>185</smallx>
      <smally>80</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>AKY Aktay B</name>
   <borders>
      <border>KAZ Kazalinsk B</border>
      <border>MHD Mashhad B and J</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>179</smallx>
      <smally>153</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>SMQ Samarqand B</name>
   <borders>
      <border>DSH Dushanbe B</border>
      <border>KAZ Kazalinsk B</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>263</smallx>
      <smally>173</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>KAZ Kazalinsk B</name>
   <borders>
      <border>AKY Aktay B</border>
      <border>AST Astana A and B</border>
      <border>SMQ Samarqand B</border>
      <border>ORB Orenburg B</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>244</smallx>
      <smally>125</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>BAQ Balqash B</name>
   <borders>
      <border>DSH Dushanbe B</border>
      <border>AST Astana A and B</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>317</smallx>
      <smally>122</smally>
      <largex>0</largex>
      <largey>0</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>
<territory>
   <name>DSH Dushanbe B</name>
   <borders>
      <border>SMQ Samarqand B</border>
      <border>BAQ Balqash B</border>
      <border>DSH Dushanbe G</border>
      <border>DSH Dushanbe L</border>
      <border>DSH Dushanbe K</border>
      <border>DSH Dushanbe J</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>354</smallx>
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[Victor Sullivan]

Gameplay looks okay to me, just make sure to adjust D's bonus to 4, as you stated.

-Sully

[cairnswk]

Gameplay looks okay to me, just make sure to adjust D's bonus to 4, as you stated.

-Sully

How careless of me. Done above in version 14.

[Victor Sullivan]

*Gasp!* A gameplay fin! That could only mean... GAMEPLAY SHARK! EVERYONE OFF THE FOUNDRY BEACH!!

-Sully

[cairnswk]

*Gasp!* A gameplay fin! That could only mean... GAMEPLAY SHARK! EVERYONE OFF THE FOUNDRY BEACH!!

-Sully

Shhhh! Sully, you'll frighten everyone away