I would like to point out that if you click on Quick Reply instead of POSTREPLY then you can still see the game map as you make your comment. This would be better for referring back and forth from the map.
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:08 am
by Fewnix
Great job setting this up viceroy
Will not always post the training field, but people might find these excerpts interesting. The first turn I was tempted to go for a spoils but was cautioned against , by the F4 (First Four Moves) and a teacher who says the guildeines may not be in stone but...
Your Plans :Tempted to take one of the singleton terts- Vancouver, Lagos, Cairo, Mumbai, Lagos- for a spoils but the F4M says just deploy on first move. Particularly tempting would be to take Mumbai and fort Novosibirsk and Hong King to Dubai Instead, how about I deploy one on Edmonton, one on Bogota, one on Dubai, no attacks, and fort Hong Kong to Novo?
The point of the F4M is that they're just guidelines, not rules set in stone. One thing to note here is that if you were to take the spoil, you'd be neglecting the other areas of the board, and it's important to establish a foothold in NA early on. Dubai is also a great place to hold.
However, say you could fort to those spots and still have the opportunity to take a spoil. I'd greenlight that decision if you were strong enough in the other two places.
Here, though, your second move is the better one. Watch out for Bogota, though. Pink may be gunning for the bonus, so you might want to drop that troop elsewhere.
I suggest you drop
1 to N2, 1 to A1, and 1 to F5. Right, fort A5 to A4. (I like HK's position better, but A1 covers two of those terts already, so Novos is better here).
And people might want to note the warning that pink was gunning for the-South American bonus Is pink here?
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:41 am
by Viceroy63
Reds drop were not the best in a way. Not location wise but that you could not build many really strong stacks right away. I was in the same boat as Cyan but I really wanted Chicago [N4] so I deployed 2 troops there right away. And from my other 3 single territs, I went with Johannesburg [F6] because of it's more central position on the map. As Red I would have dropped 2 on Dublai [A1] and 1 on Edmonton [N2].
The first round is about deciding what is the territory that you want to keep and which ones you are willing to risk. That is why we don't attack on the first round. But we did Ok.
By the way; as a strategy team member, did you see my article submission for the next issue of the SoC newsletter? I am writing about the first move. Are you submitting anything this time around for the SoC newsletter?
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:30 am
by macbone
I added a link to the game by using the [Game] tag, Viceroy.
You know, it's an interesting feature of Bonus Monkeying, but they do tend to stick around until pretty late in the game. If your aim is to win the game, it's not as effective as the Escalating Juggernaut, but some tournaments give points out to 2nd place, 3rd place, 4th place, and so on. Being primarily concentrated in one spot limits one's offensive capabilities and makes it easier for the final elimination run, but the higher troop count does keep the BMs around in the game.
Nice initial positioning, Viceroy, on A2 and N4. O4 is a nice foxhole if no one goes for the Oz bonus.
Fewnix doesn't look too bad on N2, A1, and A5. Plus, with O1, he gets to decide whether he's going to block off Oz.
Looking down the log a bit, I see Green BMed Oz. Might have been a different game otherwise.
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:29 am
by Viceroy63
Hi Macbone; Glad to see you could join the party. Have you tried the dip yet?
A link to the game sounds like a good idea but when you get there it's only one color. This thread will be an excellent teaching and learning tool because we can all see the game as it progresses and there is no time pressure to hurry up on the comments. If I see that everyone is getting into the conversation then I hold back on the next round. Or if I see that the conversation is digressing then I announce that the next day I will insert the next round and alert everyone in the game.
Hopefully as the game progresses we should see plenty of ideas being discussed here and several conversations at the same time. Won't that be a blast. I am also hoping that you will come by every once in while and give us your evaluation of the round. The best way to evaluate this first round however, is to wait until the 2nd round is posted and we see how everyone's initial move settled in and what in means for the players in terms of future moves and prospects. This should be very interesting.
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:10 am
by kierkegaard_2
I was blue. First one out. I did not like my drop near SA and Oz.
I deployed Mexico City with the hopes someone would let me out into NA and reinf. to Nairobi with the hopes of getting out of Africa.
Looking back, I should have deployed Manila or Moscow.
Thx for posting.
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:47 am
by Viceroy63
Thank you Kierkegaard_2 for joining the Party. I hope to continue to read many more observations about the game from you. Remember always that what we get out of a thing will depend on what we put into a thing. I see a big number on the views and a small one on the actual comment replies. Some people are just naturally shy and so they won't get much out of this. But hopefully as the rounds come and go and the game becomes more interesting they will comment more and more. Tomorrow I will be posting "Round 02."
I agree with your deployment to Mexico City [N8] and with that you should have deployed 1 troop to Manila [A8] as well.
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:49 pm
by kierkegaard_2
I think Mex City was a bad deploy. Unless you are a bm (I am not), I should have known that bangkok, sao paolo and mex city would be the 1st to get taken by a bm. Next would be lagos and nairobi depending on opp. drops.
That leaves moscow and manila. Manila is so out of the way, it's a natural place to sit and accumulate spoils.
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:58 pm
by Viceroy63
You may be right of course but in the very first round you don't really know yet who the BM's are, if any. Also you need to have as many stacks in as many locations possible. So you needed a stack in North America and the only one available to you was Mexico City.
Mexico City was a perfectly good deploy at the time rather then just giving it up at the start of the game. I am hoping to see if there were not any way to move the stack further into NA as we continue with this discussion in round 02.
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:45 pm
by bman8397
Hey guys, I was pink. I probably should've tried to spread myself out a little more instead of going all out for s. America. Probably for havana or london
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:00 pm
by Viceroy63
Hi Bman:
Yeah we ended up fighting for it all. Did you know that you really helped me in my game a lot? Oh yeah. In subsequent rounds I shall explain. But our fight was one of my most heart pounding that I have ever had in CC. Can't wait to get to those final rounds.
For now, Thank you for dropping by, presenting yourself and participating in the discussion; I am really glad to see you here. There is just so much that I have planned to be discussed as the rounds come and go. So many questions as well.
Keep coming back. It works if you work it so work it.
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:19 pm
by Kiwi_NZ
hi all (yellow)
still learning SOC term games,as you can see. I think,maybe one on N9,insteed of three on A9 Beijing
2012-01-22 23:37:02 - Kiwi_NZ received 3 troops for 7 regions 2012-01-22 23:37:05 - Kiwi_NZ deployed 3 troops on Beijing 2012-01-22 23:37:31 - Kiwi_NZ reinforced Istanbul with 2 troops from Cairo 2012-01-22 23:37:43 - Kiwi_NZ reinforced Montreal with 2 troops from Reykjavik 2012-01-22 23:37:49 - Kiwi_NZ ended the turn
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:06 pm
by Viceroy63
Hi Kiwi_NZ; Good intro. It's good to say your color in the game so we all can associate and remember. I was Cyan.
I think you had a good drop there at Beijing. I would have only dropped 2 there though and the other troop in S4.
I like to have more then 3 stacks if I can, more then 5 is just overkill. But with three good strong stacks, well, that's all anyone really needs.
Glad you came by and keep coming back. tomorrow I will post round 02.
As always; Remember to read the game log first to see who did what in the second round. Just click on "SHOW" and read. The map is the final position of Round 01 so that the game log states who did what from the map positions. Also if you click on "Quick Reply" instead of on POSTREPLY, then you can still see the map in case you want to refer to it during your comments. Please try not to quote the map because then it will get confusing with all the maps everywhere. Only quote what other people said. I wont make as many comments so as not to dominate the discussions. I want every one to feel like this is your forum because it is. I will only make my own comments and questions. Thank You for your participation. You make this all happen.
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:43 pm
by kierkegaard_2
BLUE - kierkegaard_2 deployed 3 troops on Moscow kierkegaard_2 assaulted Astana from Moscow and conquered it from Viceroy63 kierkegaard_2 reinforced Astana with 4 troops from Moscow
Played too fast here. At this point, I should have deployed mainla, taken hk, moved bangkok through hong kong to manila.
Green is building up in Oz which will eliminate bangkok and pink appears to be eyeing SA, which threatens Mex City.
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:54 pm
by bman8397
Hey pink here, haha:
I really wish I had put some on london instead of havana. It may have been nice to have a stack in europe instead of 3 or 4 in the 1 area. This wasn't as big, but looking at how I set this round up, I wish I put the 5 on N1 anchorage, on N5 vancouver instead. Thoughts?
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:57 am
by Viceroy63
In all the time being here with CC I had never missed a turn, Until this one. This was my first missed turn and it bothered the hell out of me.
I lost plenty of sleep that night brother.
Re: Game 10476657 Discussion
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:04 am
by Viceroy63
bman8397 wrote:Hey pink here, haha:
I really wish I had put some on london instead of havana. It may have been nice to have a stack in europe instead of 3 or 4 in the 1 area. This wasn't as big, but looking at how I set this round up, I wish I put the 5 on N1 anchorage, on N5 vancouver instead. Thoughts?
Definitely London with all those stacks of 3's to protect you. The odds of a stack of 3 attacking you is slim at best. Vancouver is another nice one in my opinion.
Re: Debriefing of Game 10476657
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:34 pm
by Fewnix
Red here with my plans for Move 2. As a good SoC student, I had turned down the temptation of an easy spoil in move one, going by the F4M rules, opting to build small stacks in different parts of the board. Now I planned to take a spoils and had, no insult to anyone, identified Blue, kierkegaard_2 and yellow as potential targets for elimination. i was seeing pink and cyan as opponents likely to gain in strength. I consider one of the most important lessons SOC offers for Terminator games is to identify as soon as possible potential targets for elimination:
Always know who is the weakest player and whether or not you can eliminate him
.
and would welcome discussion on that point.
Your Plans:Thinking of deploying 2 on Novo, giving me 8 there enough to take the singleton yellow Yakutsk for a spoil,no advance , and deploy one on Dubai to give me there, .After taking Yakustk I hope to have 7 on Novo, 5 on Dubai, 5 on edmonton and 4 on Capetown- a not bad offensive /efensive set up.
Blue with olny 19 troops is the weakest player and my most likely target for elimination, followed by yellow with 25 troops. It should be noted pink with 23 troops has the South America bonus and cyan with 26 troops has the Oceania bonus and are likely to gain in strength over the next few rounds. making blue and yellow likely weaker playres and better targetsl
Red had very easy access to blue (me). I think it was a fair assessment to say I was the weakest from red's perspective. Cyan can't get to green in Oz, so I understand why blue was eliminated first (by cyan).
It also appears from the log that red identified green as the next target. Based on the amount of hits blue took, I'm surprised I lasted to round 6. I lost Sao Paolo and Mex City in Rd 3.
I'm not sure how much more defensive I could have played.
What do you think of the theory of not taking spoils at all as a defensive tactic? I was eliminated with 5 spoils and gave cyan the opportunity to cash in for 6 and 8 troops. Not enough for cyan to eliminate other players.
Also, how about the tactic of missing turns? It does allow you to deploy an additional 3 troops after your next turn. Plus it gives you the advantage of others thinking you will disappear.
I like the plays made by red, blue, yellow and cyan. Good tactics.
Green, having secured the bonus already, should now start playing catch-up by protecting the bonus with 1 or 2, and developing stacks across the board. Likely green will be isolated in O with little else when the spoils start dropping.
Pink should not be taking SA. It's a waste of troops for small reward. Also by taking the bonus you've isolated yourself and made others more vulnerable. Dangerous play at best.
Re: Debriefing of Game 10476657
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:37 am
by Fewnix
Red here. while it may seem premature o start looking in round 2 at the possibility of eliminating someone, that is one part, one important part of the F4M guidelines - always knowing who is the weakest player, and even more importantly, whether or not you can eliminate him. Two separate questions. . In a map with settings - Terminator, sunny, unlimited forts- the search for answers to those two questions should be a priority. we also need to keep in mind the flip side all the other players are looking at the chances of eliminating This started to be my focus in plans for round three as I sucked up to the SoC instructors.
Your Plans: Deploy 2 on A1 Dubai, giving me 8 to take singleton blue Cairo F7, no advance and deploy 1 on A4 Novosibirsk to give me 7 there.
I really appreciate the discussion and can feel my play sharpening. I recognize it is a balancing act between different priorities, even
Always know who is the weakest player and whether or not you can eliminate him.
I am now, in round 4, about the second weakest player on the board . One of my concerns has to be surviving to round 6 at which point I could, while still being a prime target for elimination, be well positioned to eliminate one or two opponents,
Assuming the plan works I would end this round with 3 spoils and 7 troops in A1 Dubai, 5 in N2 Edmonton, 7 in A4 Novosibirsk and 4 in F5 Capetown, I should be able to survive one more round to round 5, build up my forces, take another spoils and survive to round 6 .
The most likely target for me to eliminate in round 6 is Blue currently the weakest player on the map with 19 troops and 3 spoils. Assuming my plan listed above works, in round , 5 I would have 18 troops basically adjacent to blues 19 or so troops, depending on what happens between rounds. With only a 3 deploy and a set only IF I I pick up a third red this round ,that would give me about 25 troops to eliminate 20? or so blue troops. possible but not likely, and I hear you teach, trying would just make me a target,.>
But If I take a spoils this round and a spoils round 5, I start round 6 with 4 spoils, I could have a set to cash and that set could be worth more than 4. if someone has cashed a set, While there are other possibilities, blue is most likely to be the weakest player then , I would probably have a reasonable chance of eliminating him and then and it would trying. Blue is about my rank so eiminating him would give me about 20 points virtually guaranteeing I do not lose any points this game. Picking up blues 5 spoils would give me another set and a good chance to survive and eliminate at least one more player, before being eliminated. giving me a net gain of over 20 points . Etc.
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:00 pm
I had turned down the temptation of an easy spoil in move one, going by the F4M rules, opting to build small stacks in different parts of the board. Now I planned to take a spoils and had, no insult to anyone, identified Blue, kierkegaard_2 and yellow as potential targets for elimination. i was seeing pink and cyan as opponents likely to gain in strength. I consider one of the most important lessons SOC offers for Terminator games is to identify as soon as possible potential targets for elimination:
