Conquer Club

Posted: **Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:47 am**

Field of Gettysburg by pamoa

Lee’s invasion of the North intended to close the war.
All vanished at Gettysburg July 1st, 2nd & 3rd 1863
with war’s largest casualties and the end of Lee’s offensives

my intention is to catch the dynamic of those three days of battle
when despite all Confederate initiatives Lee couldn't break the Union stronghold carefully planned by Meade
the map is structured around two main ideas
the heaviness of the chain of command in those days
using the pair General & Troops bonus and the conditional border with the oneway attack to Armies Commanders in order to be able to plan a frontal assault
and the dynamic of three days of battle
using the weakness of some pair position to be attacked first as it did happen

useful links :
Civil War Trust
United States Military Academy Department of History
Wikipedia

v04 small new features : Cavalry range of 2 instead of bonus, Victory condition, added Long Lane Battlefield, removed Devil's Den - Big Round Top attack route

Click image to enlarge.

show: v03 small - cavalry bonus, East Cemetery Hill Battlefield, attack route, legend, decor

show: v02 small - wording, title, attack routes, oval shaping

show: v01 small - first draft

Gameplay

28 starting positions coded by pair = 14 General & Troops pairs = 7 Union + 7 Confederate
3 Confederate Corps Commanders starting 2 neutral
2 Cavalry Reserve starting 2 neutral
2 Army Commanders starting 2 neutral
5 Battlefields starting 1 neutral
2 Crossroads starting 2 neutral

42 in total

+1 per turn without bonus for territories
+1 each General & Troops pairs (recognisable by the name)
-1 decay on each Battlefield

conditional borders
in order to attack through a Battlefield you must hold the respective Corps or Army Commander of the attacking Troops
example: to attack Rock Creek Johnson Troops must hold Ewell (Corps) or Lee (Army)

oneway attack route
Union Generals and Confederate Corps Commanders attack oneway their respective Army Commander
example: Gen. Johnson attack two ways Ewell Corps Commander which attack one way Lee or Gen. Sedgwick attack one way Meade

bombardment
all Corps and Army Commanders bombard eachother
example: Ewell Corps Commander can bombard Meade, Hill and Longstreet

cavalry
attack range is two

victory condition
hold all five Battlefields

show: complete Chain Of Command

show: complete Assault conditions

Graphics

similar to Austerlitz the map is made of linked positions instead of surfaces
for the moment the background is made with the image of a map downloaded on the Library of Congress Geography and Map Division

previous attempts Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2 / Gettysburg
previous ideas Gettysburg/ Picketts Charge / Civil War: Gettysburg / gettysburg map / The Battle of Gettysburg
my credential Holy Roman Empire / France 1789 / Austerlitz / Switzerland / Central Asia: Struggle for Oil

Posted: **Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:55 am**

I haven't looked too closely at things, BUT OH GOD YES PLEASE MAKE THIS

Posted: **Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:23 am**

Sounds very good Pamoa !!! I can' t stand to try it ! GJ pal

Posted: **Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:47 am**

Looks cool. I like that it's not insanely big and complex. I'm not a big fan of games that require more time reading than actual playing.

Maybe lighten the blue in the tert. boxes a little. But that's something that can be done when it gets to that phase.

Posted: **Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:50 am**

So, are corp commanders considered to be artillery?

Posted: **Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:00 am**

Suggestions/ideas/comments (in absolutely no order):

1. The city is "Hanover" not "Hannover". It's named after Hannover, Germany but they Americanized the spelling.
2. Does Cavalry have any special attack or role? Otherwise I think they'll just be ignored the entire game. I'd try to think of something that they can do.
3. Possibly put a cannon beside/near the Corps Commanders and maybe the Army commanders to show the bombardment option?
4. Try to make the map background a little darker so we get more of the map feel? I think it's too light right now, I'd rather see more of a map with the gameplay as an overlay.
5. Lee is attacked by 3 people, while Meade is attacked by 7. It's unbalanced, but I'm not sure it will be a huge issue.
6. I would call them "battlefields" or something similar. "Fightfield" isn't a term used in English.
7. In the legend, under Reinforcements, change the first line to read "+1 per turn, no territory bonus" or "+1 per turn (no territory bonus)"
8. The title should be "Battle of Gettysburg" as that is what it is commonly called.
9. Under "Chain of Command" I would say that they "... one way attack their respective ..."
10. I would remove the +1 and -1 in the "Map Legend" area since you have that under reinforcements. I think it's slightly confusing.

I really like the idea, and I think it has a lot of the things that I liked about Austerlitz with none of the things that I didn't.

Posted: **Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:15 am**

the theme is great and map looks very promissing.

I have a little problem to read legend.
the background should be more visible. or draw basic things as roads, woods.
what needs to hold Slocum army to attacks Rock Creek? I assume Meade, but which union general?
I think you should add more things to legend. all symbols used on map would be explained in legend.
maybe you can use different symbols for Corps Commanders and other generals.

I will look at map more today.

good work, pamoa

Oneyed

Posted: **Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:02 am**

I can not log in on Library of Congress Geography and Map Division posted by you, but on Wikipedia I found this nice old map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gettysburg

Click image to enlarge.

Oneyed

Posted: **Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:41 am**

Mood

nolefan5311 wrote:I haven't looked too closely at things, BUT OH GOD YES PLEASE MAKE THIS

DJoach wrote:Sounds very good Pamoa !!! I can' t stand to try it ! GJ pal

ironsij0287 wrote:Looks cool. I like that it's not insanely big and complex. I'm not a big fan of games that require more time reading than actual playing.

Ace Rimmer wrote:I really like the idea, and I think it has a lot of the things that I liked about Austerlitz with none of the things that I didn't.

Oneyed wrote:the theme is great and map looks very promissing. good work, pamoa

thanks all for your support

Gameplay

Frito Bandito wrote:So, are corp commanders considered to be artillery?

Ace Rimmer wrote:Possibly put a cannon beside/near the Corps Commanders and maybe the Army commanders to show the bombardment option?

Corp and Army Commanders are not proper artillery they cannot bombard on the field
the idea is to introduce the artillery theme in a indirect way
field artillery was more for breaking assaults than annihilating troops
it was also used as moral breaking tool as preparation to an assault
so you can block a frontal assault through a Fightfield by bombing Corp or Army Commander and blocking the conditionnal border

Ace Rimmer wrote:Does Cavalry have any special attack or role? Otherwise I think they'll just be ignored the entire game. I'd try to think of something that they can do.

no special attack I want to keep a minimum of special feature
they are here to open the attack possibilities
and because they did really fight

Ace Rimmer wrote:Lee is attacked by 3 people, while Meade is attacked by 7. It's unbalanced, but I'm not sure it will be a huge issue.

well as a dead end they are not an objective for themselves
but as the key that open an assault through Fightfield you have
for Union 7 Generals attacking Meade which open attack for them all
for Confederate 2 or 3 Generals attacking their respective Corp Commander which open attack for the Corp only
and then 3 Confederate Corp Commander attacking one way Lee which open all Fightfield

Oneyed wrote:what needs to hold Slocum army to attacks Rock Creek? I assume Meade, but which union general?

you don't need a General to attack through Fightfield
direct orders from Corp or Army Commanders are sufficient

Graphics

Ace Rimmer wrote:The city is "Hanover" not "Hannover". It's named after Hannover, Germany but they Americanized the spelling.

Ace Rimmer wrote:In the legend, under Reinforcements, change the first line to read "+1 per turn, no territory bonus" or "+1 per turn (no territory bonus)"

Ace Rimmer wrote:Under "Chain of Command" I would say that they "... one way attack their respective ..."

to be done

Ace Rimmer wrote:The title should be "Battle of Gettysburg" as that is what it is commonly called.

I wish to keep it as it is in reference to the October 1863 map made by Ditterline
it is the first map of the battle published as propaganda for the Union
Library of Congress Geography and Map Division

Ace Rimmer wrote:I would call them "battlefields" or something similar. "Fightfield" isn't a term used in English.

I know its an invented term but I wasn't sure about having 4 battlefields on a battlefield
have any other idea?

Oneyed wrote:I have a little problem to read legend.

Oneyed wrote:I think you should add more things to legend. all symbols used on map would be explained in legend.

well I put the only necessary items to keep it short
if I add more it will be even smaller
considering this is the small map

Oneyed wrote:maybe you can use different symbols for Corps Commanders and other generals.

they all formally have the same rank Major General except Lee
I tend to prefer to keep it similar

ironsij0287 wrote:Maybe lighten the blue in the tert. boxes a little. But that's something that can be done when it gets to that phase.

to be done

Ace Rimmer wrote:Try to make the map background a little darker so we get more of the map feel? I think it's too light right now, I'd rather see more of a map with the gameplay as an overlay.

Oneyed wrote:the background should be more visible. or draw basic things as roads, woods.

actually its a draft for which I used the Ditterline map
I the map goes further I'll work on the background again as for the routes between units

Ace Rimmer wrote:I would remove the +1 and -1 in the "Map Legend" area since you have that under reinforcements. I think it's slightly confusing.

saying twice doesn't hurt
I thought as it as a quick guide

Oneyed wrote:I can not log in on Library of Congress Geography and Map Division posted by you, but on Wikipedia I found this nice old map

link updated
you will find the original file of the same map

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:03 am**

pamoa, nice map and want to see this go on but I have some observations that I hope you can clear up for me. These are all for my benefit to help me understand the map better and therefore help you better.

Chain of Command.
Union Generals and confed corp commanders one way take control of their respective army commanders. If I am reading this right, Hill 3 corps commander one way attacks Pender/Heath and Anderson. So who attacks Hill?
Assault conditions.
Even with your example, it took me about 5 minutes to work out all of the others and right now I am still not sure. Andersons troops need Hill to attack through Long Lane. Correct?
Reinforcements.
Territ bonus is fine but might be a little low and games might start very slow.
+1 for generals and his troops. This is going to give an advantage to the player going first is it not? If I am reading the map right, the general will start with 3 troops and the army one troop. Will these be coded together so a player gets both for the +1 straight out?
-1 for troops in a fightfield (battlefield sounds better). Decay or bonus? Please be clear on this point.
Victory Condition.
If you get this far, you have already won the game and seems pointless to have it. How about holding Lee and Meade for the win? Only able to attack them if you hold any two commanders on the field.

Other things.

Skyes is behind a 2 neutral and gets an advantage.
Images. Any copyrights involved?
Legend text. very small and hard to read. Why not make Lee and Meade smaller and the legend bigger to solve this.

koontz

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:05 am**

Mood

koontz1973 wrote:pamoa, nice map and want to see this go on but ...

sm8900 by pm wrote:hmmm, interesting

thanks for your support

Gameplay

koontz1973 wrote:Chain of Command.
Union Generals and confed corp commanders one way take control of their respective army commanders. If I am reading this right, Hill 3 corps commander one way attacks Pender/Heath and Anderson. So who attacks Hill?

its the other way around Generals>(Corp)>Army(Lee/Meade)

show: complete Chain Of Command

koontz1973 wrote:Assault conditions.
Even with your example, it took me about 5 minutes to work out all of the others and right now I am still not sure. Andersons troops need Hill to attack through Long Lane. Correct?

correct

show: complete Assault conditions

koontz1973 wrote:Reinforcements.
Territ bonus is fine but might be a little low and games might start very slow.
+1 for generals and his troops. This is going to give an advantage to the player going first is it not?

in 1vs1 with +5 it will be easy to take territories with 1 troop more risky for those with 3
it is ment to be so to reflect the actual timeline of the battle

koontz1973 wrote:If I am reading the map right, the general will start with 3 troops and the army one troop. Will these be coded together so a player gets both for the +1 straight out?

yes it will be coded as so
as I told in the first post
"28 starting positions coded by pair = 7 + 7 General & Troops pairs"

koontz1973 wrote:-1 for troops in a fightfield (battlefield sounds better). Decay or bonus? Please be clear on this point.

decay will be specified

koontz1973 wrote:Victory Condition.
If you get this far, you have already won the game and seems pointless to have it. How about holding Lee and Meade for the win? Only able to attack them if you hold any two commanders on the field.

it may seems so
but as it is complicated to attack through the Fightfield you are encouraged to take control of one side and so win without too great losses
I'm pretty much against a rush on Army Commanders
It would have to be at least neutral 15 or 20 and then you will never use the conditional border

koontz1973 wrote:Skyes is behind a 2 neutral and gets an advantage.

how that
you don't get any bonus of Gen. Skyes alone
you need his troops which are pretty much exposed

Graphics

koontz1973 wrote:Images. Any copyrights involved?

as said above its a draft for which I used the Ditterline map
if the map goes further I'll work on the background again as for the routes between units

koontz1973 wrote:Legend text. very small and hard to read. Why not make Lee and Meade smaller and the legend bigger to solve this.

its the small map 630x600
the large one will be more readable
the actual layout is obviously not definitive but will be re-worked later when gameplay is more settled

sm8900 by pm wrote:if you put Stuart in on the battlefield, why not put in Custer as well? since he's the one who fought Stuart.

as I understood from this source and this this one Gregg was leading is division with the help of Custer's brigade (lower in rank)
that's why I put Gregg as higher officer

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:42 am**

Thanks for the info pamoa. I knew I was wrong about the attacks but I thought it better to ask. Is there anyway to make it clearer either graphically or legend wording so players can understand it without having to look at a graph?

28 starting positions coded by pair = 7 + 7 General & Troops pairs.

What about 8 player games? Everyone will start random and only have the +1, and someone may drop a bonus whilst others not. Out of the 7 starting positions, how many will be given out in 1v1 games? If it is 3 each, player one starts with 4 troops and has an overwhelming advantage from the start?

With the fightfields, is there any way these can be moved so players have to use them. Right now, you do not need to and with a 2 neutral on them and the small bonuses, why would a player use them?

Some one way arrows to explain those attack routes would be of a great help in understanding things.

Skyes has a slight advantage for a player who starts with him because of the neutrals, but it is only slight and I noticed that Sedgewick also has it. No big thing but something to keep in mind later in GP.

pamoa wrote:if the map goes further I'll work on the background again as for the routes between units

Why would this map not go any further? You have support for it but I will ask you to get any copyrights sorted out ASAP.

koontz

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:08 pm**

koontz1973 wrote:Territ bonus is fine but might be a little low and games might start very slow.

I also thought of a +1 autodeploy on each General but removed for it could be too much
maybe should I put it back

koontz1973 wrote:Thanks for the info pamoa. I knew I was wrong about the attacks but I thought it better to ask. Is there anyway to make it clearer either graphically or legend wording so players can understand it without having to look at a graph?

any suggestion ?

koontz1973 wrote:
28 starting positions = 14 coded by pair = 7 Union + 7 Confederate General & Troops pairs.

What about 8 player games? Everyone will start random and only have the +1, and someone may drop a bonus whilst others not. Out of the 7 starting positions, how many will be given out in 1v1 games? If it is 3 each, player one starts with 4 troops and has an overwhelming advantage from the start?

14 pairs of starting is enough for 14 players to start even
and 1vs 1 will get 4 pairs each

koontz1973 wrote:With the fightfields, is there any way these can be moved so players have to use them. Right now, you do not need to and with a 2 neutral on them and the small bonuses, why would a player use them?

I think they will be used as it is a big way around the 3 ones on the left
but I will lower them to 1 neutral and we will see in beta

koontz1973 wrote:Some one way arrows to explain those attack routes would be of a great help in understanding things.

it isn't possible
how would you read the map with 3 Confederate and 7 Union arrows all over the map to end on the 2 Army Commanders

koontz1973 wrote:Skyes has a slight advantage for a player who starts with him because of the neutrals, but it is only slight and I noticed that Sedgewick also has it. No big thing but something to keep in mind later in GP.

beta will tell

koontz1973 wrote:
pamoa wrote:if the map goes further I'll work on the background again as for the routes between units

Why would this map not go any further? You have support for it but I will ask you to get any copyrights sorted out ASAP.

you didn't understood me
I said I will redo a background myself later when in graphic stage
but to make my draft readable I'm using this map temporarily
so there will never be any copyright issue

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:35 pm**

any suggestion ?

None as of yet but will think on it.

I also thought of a +1 autodeploy on each General but removed for it could be too much
maybe should I put it back

Wait for the game play mods to look at it and see what they say.

14 pairs of starting is enough for 14 players to start even
and 1vs 1 will get 4 pairs each

Thanks. This might give a big advantage to player one but wait again and see what ian and nole say.

it isn't possible
how would you read the map with 3 Confederate and 7 Union arrows all over the map to end on the 2 Army Commanders

Sorry, I meant for the Anderson to Hill connections. A small arrow head at the end to denote it is one way would suffice.

you didn't understood me
I said I will redo a background myself later when in graphic stage
but to make my draft readable I'm using this map temporarily
so there will never be any copyright issue

I did understand you, but you are already in the graphics phase of things.

Sorry pamoa for not making myself clear, but I cannot let this out till the copyrights are sorted. I am sure a different jpeg can be found or why not start on the background now.

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:44 pm**

koontz1973 wrote:I did understand you, but you are already in the graphics phase of things. Sorry pamoa for not making myself clear, but I cannot let this out till the copyrights are sorted. I am sure a different jpeg can be found or why not start on the background now.

I'm going to help out here a bit. I went and took a look at the link pamoa posted and it is in public domain so pamoa is free to use it as he pleases!

Posted: **Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:46 pm**

Thats great news pamoa. Now that is one thing you can cross of your list of things to do here.

Posted: **Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:39 am**

koontz1973 wrote:
pamoa wrote:how would you read the map with 3 Confederate and 7 Union arrows all over the map to end on the 2 Army Commanders
Sorry, I meant for the Anderson to Hill connections. A small arrow head at the end to denote it is one way would suffice.

it is only the Confederate Corp Commander to Confederate Army Commander (Lee) link which is one way
the Confederate General to Confederate Corp Commander is two ways
at least for now but if you think it should be one way then tell me why

isaiah40 wrote:I'm going to help out here a bit. I went and took a look at the link pamoa posted and it is in public domain

thanks isaiah I wasn't sure of it
however I'll try to make my own background when gameplay stamped

Posted: **Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:39 am**

pamoa wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:
pamoa wrote:how would you read the map with 3 Confederate and 7 Union arrows all over the map to end on the 2 Army Commanders
Sorry, I meant for the Anderson to Hill connections. A small arrow head at the end to denote it is one way would suffice.
it is only the Confederate Corp Commander to Confederate Army Commander (Lee) link which is one way
the Confederate General to Confederate Corp Commander is two ways
at least for now but if you think it should be one way then tell me why

Nope, leave it as is. But consider me one of the average players that likes to play lots of maps and if I have had this trouble understanding, consider the rest of the poor slobs. But, this is more for the game play side of the foundry.

Posted: **Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:18 am**

Hi Pamoa, Im happy to se you goin on with Gettysburg, as minister x last atemp Unfortunately diden make it...

So lets se this one come alive

Good job so far

Click image to enlarge.

Posted: **Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:47 pm**

sm8900 by pm wrote:if you put Stuart in on the battlefield, why not put in Custer as well? since he's the one who fought Stuart.

as I understood from this source and this this one Gregg was leading is division with the help of Custer's brigade (lower in rank)
that's why I put Gregg as higher officer[/quote]

ok, sounds great. thanks for this great map!!!

Posted: **Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:54 pm**

pamoa, can I please ask you to update the title of the thread for me.

Name, date, version number, page of current version.

koontz

Posted: **Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:06 am**

what about to add Wheatfield between SICKLES/BIRNEY and MC LAW?

I found interesting site http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/ge ... gemap.html

Oneyed

Posted: **Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:06 am**

well if you look more closely Wheatfield is on the map
between Sickles/Birney Peach Orchard and Sickles/Birney Cemetery Ridge
for the source thank you
I already used it as a base for this map
as I said to sm8900 in my last answer

Posted: **Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:23 am**

pamoa wrote:well if you look more closely Wheatfield is on the map
between Sickles/Birney Peach Orchard and Sickles/Birney Cemetery Ridge

I see it. I mean to move it from between Sickles/Birney Peach Orchard and Sickles/Birney Cemetery Ridge to between SICKLES/BIRNEY Peach Orchad and MC LAW.

I think you should use battlefields for fightfields, because name of map is Field of Gettysburg, not Battlefield of Gettysburg.

Oneyed

Posted: **Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:57 am**

pamoa wrote:well if you look more closely Wheatfield is on the map
between Sickles/Birney Peach Orchard and Sickles/Birney Cemetery Ridge

Oneyed wrote:I see it. I mean to move it from between Sickles/Birney Peach Orchard and Sickles/Birney Cemetery Ridge
to between SICKLES/BIRNEY Peach Orchad and MC LAW.

well that would be geographically incorrect
as you can see here Wheatfield is situated between Peach Orchard and Little Round Top
it was Hood who attacked Wheatfield Road behind Sickles position in Peach Orchard as Mc Law attacked him frontally
so in my next version I'll move the Hood Devil's Den - Sickles/Birney Peach Orchard attack route
to Hood Devil's Den - Wheatfield Battlefield

Oneyed wrote:I think you should use battlefields for fightfields, because name of map is Field of Gettysburg, not Battlefield of Gettysburg.

I surrender

Battlefields it will be

Conquer Club

[Abandoned] Field of Gettysburg v04p4nov22

[Abandoned] Field of Gettysburg v04p4nov22

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