Conquer Club

Current Version


Map Name: The Powell Expeditions
Map Size: 48 total, with (probably) 5 starting neutral territories
Your aims/design style: In 1869, Major John Wesley Powell, a one-armed Civil War veteran, embarked on an expedition down the Green and Colorado Rivers in order to survey both the geographical and geological characteristics of the region. The journey was not an easy one. The rivers and their surrounding environments were harsh and dangerous, and the expedition suffered losses of morale, supplies, and lives. However, the voyage was an indisputable success- the expedition survived to reach the goal of the Virgin River and provided important information about the region.

In 1871 and 1872, John Wesley Powell mounted another expedition in the same region. This expedition was not as dangerous as the first, and would involve more travel by foot than the original expedition. However, this expedition was also important in that it gave yet more valuable insights to the Colorado Plateau region. In addition, it also gave a unique view of the various native peoples living in the region.

My aim for making this map is to capture a sense of these two expeditions while providing a fun, balanced, and unique CC experience. I'm trying as much as possible to stick to historical fact, as well as to incorporate a creative style that I think matches the essence of this region and the expeditions.

Uniqueness: First, this has not been done before, at least not that I'm at all aware of. To me, this is really a unique story and incorporates a lot of pretty cool elements. I'm trying to incorporate these elements into the map by having features such as difficult terrain, various hazards, and a distinct style. I also think this will be a fun blend between the traditional "territory" and "path" maps, since there are bonuses involved with both.

Now that the basic spiel's over, some things I thought I'd mention. First, this effort is the result of my attempts to breakdown a map I was working on a few weeks ago (Manifest Destiny/Westward Expansion) into more manageable fragments. I hope I didn't keep anyone waiting so long that they gave up on me Second, this is just a basic draft of the map, and I know that there's a ton of problems with it that I'm hoping you all can help me out with. The basic problems I can recognize so far are:

-The overall gameplay isn't really hammered out yet. I'm still tossing around a few ideas (one way attacks on the river, unique properties of different territories, etc.) that I'm hoping outside opinions will help refine.

-I think the gameplay is also a little confusing. I'm hoping to clear that up quite a bit with some more work.

-Right now it's very "busy". I would really like to simplify the legend some.

-I have no idea what I'm doing with bonuses. I used the spreadsheet to arrive at these basic numbers, but that's as much as I know.

-I still need to add a lot of style to it. I put a few elements in there so people can get an idea, but it needs some more.

With all that said, what are everyone's' thoughts?

Older Versions
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2125/powellexpedition4copy.jpg- Original
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/6500/powellexpedition5copy.jpg- Version 2
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/848/powellexpedition7copy.jpg- Version 3
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1766/powellexpedition8copy.jpg- Version 4
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9233/powellexpedition9copy.jpg- Version 5
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7357/powellexpedition10copy.jpg- Version 6

Interesting map... it's met its success if its intention was to teach other CC players a little history. Here's that I would like to see:

1) More story on the map. You've picked quite an unusual subject and some of that info would be good on the map. You've certainly got the space.

2) The map is very... bright. I like all the warm colors but something like the contrast is too high.

3) I'd like to see the trails hold more graphical unity... perhaps the Grand Canyon could all be shade of red or something (the green throws it off a bit).

4) Perhaps you could look into Native American art for ideas to draw those Donkeys, otherwise, cool idea.

5) This is gonna sound dumb but... what if you threw in one of those scale markers like 1 inch = 60 miles or something. I'm having a hard time making sense of the real world spatial size of this map. I see Denver... does the G.C. go near Denver? I'm just an Ohio boy who's never been west so excuse my ignorance

6) Ditch the army circles. The map is beautiful and the circles just detract from it. For the trails... what if you made something like two big boot prints to signify its part of the trail.

Good work!

It may be too soon for graphical nitpicks, but I think the biggest graphical problem of the map is that it looks too flat. Add some shading at strategic places, maybe raise the territories up from the background a bit - this should also improve the clarity of the map. You could also use some contrast between playable/non-playable areas - right now they're all pretty much in the same saturation, brightness & colours - you could use any of these to make the playable area (territories) stand out more.

Another issue is that the objective is heavily biased to the left of the map. Someone with a crap drop on the right side has a severe disadvantage toward the objective than one who got some territories on the left. Instead of making that an objective, I suggest changing it to a nice combination bonus.

Otherwise, killer good first draft. Definitely keep with this, but pay heed to Helix and Natty, they make good comments for you to improve the map with.

Well... i hear Natty out but don't make it too 3d, I really like the flat style of the map. It looks like a... well... map. One thing you could do is make it look like Powell draw the map as well. Think of the Iwo Jima map with the cartographer's tools or even my own, ahem, 13 Colonies. Except you could put Powells journal, a contemporary ink pen, Civil War memorabilia... I think you could allude to his history with the little tidbits of this map.

Alright, I made a few changes based on the suggestions so far:
-Toned down the saturation of the different regions a little bit. It shouldn't be as bright now.
-Added more description to the legend. Hopefully this should also help clarify the objective more as well.
-No more army circles.
-Revamped the 1871-1872 expedition a little bit. It should now be quite a bit easier to see exactly what territories it encompasses.

Things I still need to do:
-Put some sense of scale in- what would work better, a small inset of the region of the US that this is in, or a simple distance scale?
-I still need to set off the actual playing area from the background a little bit. Maybe a change of texture would be better for this?
-Decide on a style to go for. Originally I was heading towards a Native American/petroglyph look for most of the map, hence the dark background on the legend and the stone texture. However, it was suggested that I go for more of a journal look, which I think would be cool as well. Thoughts on this?
-As far as gameplay goes, I'm considering merging the entire 1869 expedition into one "region" to get rid of confusion...good or bad?
-Finally, I'm not sold on the bonus "map". Would a simple table with colors and bonus numbers be better suited and save a bit more space?
-Everything still looks pretty cluttered to me...

One more note to Tacktix- the objective of the map is to control all the territories, not just the expeditions. Do you have any suggestions for making that objective clearer to eliminate the confusion you had with it?

Just a quick little update: There is new version update coming soon- I've changed the gameplay around and (I think) made some things a little neater and easier. I'm also playing around with the style a little more and trying to make things less confusing. After I release this next update I'll probably submit a design brief

Alright, here's the newest update. Changes:

-Got rid of what I thought was a somewhat messy bonus map and replaced it with a chart instead. It should make things a bit neater and simpler.
-Combined all the 1869 expedition territories into one "region", with bonuses similar to a traditional path.
-Came up with 2 different styles for the whole thing. The actual map is more of a paper background, while the legend is (intended to be) rock slabs. I plan on adding some cool petroglyph art to the legend when I get to that point
-Added a little drawing for Black Mesa, and made it so Tse Bit'a'i (Winged Rock) actually lives up to its name a little more.

Thoughts and comments so far?

The graphics are very smooth, and I love the addition of the paper crease. I also really like the historical elements.

However, I'd like to see more of the gameplay aspects from Manifest Destiny. You've only got one 'hazard' in the form of the red desert, and player don't technically have to cross the desert in order to hold onto the expedition trail.

More hazards/threats along the trail itself might spice up this map, rather than just making the trail relatively inaccessible. If there were decays or bombards or a killer neutral to cross, then I'd get more of the sense of battling my way through the wilderness (and losing men along the way).

Cool, I was considering adding some more challenges and gameplay elements along the line. For the 1869 expedition (down the river) I was thinking of a few options:
a. Make the entire expedition a one-way "downstream" (southwest) attack only. This would help simulate the feel of actually riding down the river, rather than just conquering it.
b. Another option would be to have certain killer neutral "rapids" at certain points along the river. There's more than enough historical basis for this, since they lost quite a bit of equipment along the trip.
c. Possibly a combination of A and B?

As far as the 1871-72 expedition, I have a couple thoughts:

-First, the Native Americans aren't really going to be able to function the same way as in Manifest Destiny. The reason for this is that the Black Mesa settlements were actually very helpful to the expedition. Maybe along with a bonus for the whole region, holding Oraibi could give a +1 autodeploy?

-This isn't necessarily tied to the 1871-72 expedition, but maybe I could incorporate a build-a-bonus based on various landmarks? For example, say Tse Bit'a'i, Island in the Sky, and El Morro (among others) are all part of this landmark bonus. If a player holds 3 landmarks, they get a +1 bonus, and so on. This might add a little more to the gameplay and fit along with the "discovery" portion of the expedition.

Those are my ideas so far. I'm open to feedback on these as well as completely different suggestions

I vote for option C. Both the 1-way attacks and the rapids hazard sound very good to me.

The +1 autodeploy for Oraibi sounds fine... were there any dangers on the '71-72 trail, or did most of the tragedy occur on the '69 trek? Just looking for a way to balance out the two trails. At the very least, I'd increase the '69 bonus if you include the proposed changes.

Maybe this is me or perhaps my compy, but this map seems excessively over-saturated or warm. Even the blue is warm...

You mention the beauty of the region, though all the map says is hot and threatening. Perhaps its the paper texture, as I've noticed with my own maps the paper itself can over-saturate or mellow out a map. I feel like something less choppy as the paper you've chosen might work better, perhaps something along the line of the First Nation's maps?

Anyway, if you haven't submitted your design brief already, please do so. I feel that this map is ready for the gameplay workshop.

Most of the hardship occurred on the 1869 expedition. Mostly it was just boat crashes and loss of supplies/morale, but right near the end 3 members did leave the expedition and were killed shortly after by an unknown party (most people think it was either a case of mistaken identity among Native Americans, or they got into a scrape with a group of Mormons). To be honest the 1871-72 expedition was a lot tamer and included a somewhat safer and in-depth look at the Native Americans in the area. Maybe I could make that aspect more apparent in that expedition?

I'll try and make it less luminous overall, and I'll play around with other paper textures. Eventually we'll come to something that isn't quite so...bright To be honest the whole "beauty" idea is kind of up to personal taste. I personally like it, but if you're someplace that is mostly green in the summer, it might not be quite for you...

Here's a few pictures so you can get a general idea of the region.
Shiprock (Tse Bit'a'i on the map)
The Grand Canyon
El Morro
Painted Desert
Island in the Sky

Also, design brief submitted

Industrial Helix wrote: but this map seems excessively over-saturated or warm. Even the blue is warm...

I love the feel of this map. My suggestion is to go with it as is. It's got a unique natural earthy feel to it. And the bit of sketched extras (flat plateaus, horses...) give it a coole xpedition feel. Overall nice job.

Alright, here's a new version. Changes:
-Added a Landmark bonus feature. There are four landmarks spread throughout the non-1869 expedition portion of the map. Holding 3 grants a +1 bonus, holding all 4 grants a +2 bonus.
-Added a hazards feature. Any territory with a broken boat (all are in the 1869 expedition) loses 1 troop per turn.
-Added resupply points that grant a +1 autodeploy.
-Territories along the 1869 expedition can now only one-way attack in a downstream (S/W) direction.
-Turned down the saturation just a hair.

Thoughts?

Cool. i like the additions as it gives the map more flavor.

Though I'm not sure which way the river flows. EDIT: I see it now in the rules. My fault. You could use a compass on this map though to clearly identify which way is south and north, ect. It might be the first time a compass on a map actually had gameplay significance

And some of the landmarks have indication of what exactly the landmark looks like, such as Tse Bit'a'i, I'd like to see that on all the landmarks.

For areas where you need a donkey to get down the cliffs, I think the borders could be more clear. This current system shows that one can go from Red Desert to Lodore canyon, but the actual border looks like any other border. I'd like to see the red stop at the ridgeline, as it does with Island in the Sky or Rio Blanco. Can Green River City go down to Flaming Gorge? I think the impassables of the canyon could use clarification.

I'd also liek to see the supply routes be a little bigger. I can make out blocks, but am unsure what they are.

Keep it up! It won't be long before this map goes to gameplay. Its beautiful already, graphics should only be a tweak. I'm starting to like how it really says "this is a hot place in the desert" with the overly warm colors. Again, very nice. This map should be a winner!

Thanks! And good suggestions- I'll work on implementing those next. As for the landmarks, I was planning on it for at least 2 others- the La Sal Mountains and Mogollon Rim. Island in the Sky is already kind of a landmark, but I'll see if I can make it stand out a little more I think I'll also start playing around with giving the legend more of a petroglyph feel, unless some pressing gameplay issue is brought up. Not sure how I'll do it, but I'll look at some art and see what happens.

Island in the Sky looks pretty good as it is. I see the image and make the connection with the name. It's say it stands out nicely already.

Just a quick note that I'm still working on this. Some emergency-type stuff came up in the past couple weeks, but that's mostly gone so I can get back to updating. Other than the graphical suggestions, any more gameplay thoughts?

Alright, finally have a new version out



Changes:
-Took IndustrialHelix's suggestions to simplify the borders a bit.
-Redid the supply point picture. It's supposed to be a barrel and a sack. If it doesn't look like that or you don't think it really fits, let me know.
-Changed the mule to a petroglyph creature. I thought it fit the style a little more
-Made the canoe image a little bit more sophisticated. I'm still not happy with it, but it's better.

Thoughts?

Hm. The paper fold looks a bit odd next to the 3d canyons...

Hm, the texture's big enough that I can easily move that around or rotate it if I want. I'll try and make it less parallel with the canyon.

I meant it would be better without the paper fold.

Alright, I can just recenter the texture so the fold's not visible. I also might look around for a texture that doesn't have quite so prominent folds...

I dunno... i kinda like the feel the map gets with that fold in there...

-griff