[Abandoned] - Europe 1099 - The 1st Crusade

[Incandenza]

So, to recap:
1. keeping the Jordan River impassable the way it is (I tend to agree with you on this one)
2. leaving Aragon the way it is (I also agree, Iberia's pretty dialed in at the moment, no need to upset the apple cart)
3. making the Denmark terit look a bit more substantial by expanding the island
4. coding 2 starting positions in Scandan
5. for that matter, Scandan should probably be "Norse Kingdoms" as ian suggested
6. keep the starting terits at 60 (I'm not going to be a bother about this one, just means I'll probably eschew dubs in favor of a lot of trips/quads, to which this map is fantastically suited)

Since the changes we're discussing are basically xml and graphics, with no real change to gameplay after some smart blokes cruising by the thread, this map is ready to move on:



Congrats, Beko. Can't wait to play it.

[Beko the Great]

So, to recap:
1. keeping the Jordan River impassable the way it is (I tend to agree with you on this one)
2. leaving Aragon the way it is (I also agree, Iberia's pretty dialed in at the moment, no need to upset the apple cart)
3. making the Denmark terit look a bit more substantial by expanding the island
4. coding 2 starting positions in Scandan
5. for that matter, Scandan should probably be "Norse Kingdoms" as ian suggested
6. keep the starting terits at 60 (I'm not going to be a bother about this one, just means I'll probably eschew dubs in favor of a lot of trips/quads, to which this map is fantastically suited)

Since the changes we're discussing are basically xml and graphics, with no real change to gameplay after some smart blokes cruising by the thread, this map is ready to move on:



Congrats, Beko. Can't wait to play it.

1, 2 and 6, thanks for agreeing with me;
3, 4 and 5 consider it done ;

Thank you very much for the Gameplay aproval!

[gimil]

Hi Beko the Great,

I read on page 16 that your next update was going to be completly graphical, so I have waited for it before giving you any feedback, when can I expect this update?

Cheers,
gimil

[Beko the Great]

Hi Beko the Great,

I read on page 16 that your next update was going to be completly graphical, so I have waited for it before giving you any feedback, when can I expect this update?

Cheers,
gimil

I've already made large map but have been kinda busy so small map isn't ready yet. Hope having the version 17 as soon as possible!

Cheers,
Beko the Great

[Beko the Great]

Hello All!
Here it is the so awaited version 17 of this map!

Large: (800 x 674)

Click image to enlarge.

Small: (630 x 531)

Click image to enlarge.

Graphics:

Legend of the map changed:
- Background Image sugested by Silent Killer;
- Frame: Gothic Style Window Frame;
- Font: Small Caps;
- Coloured Squares replaced by Shields;
- Scandinavian Kingdoms changed to Norse Kingdoms as sugested by iancanton;
- Only Christian Iberia is now Christian Iberia;
- Italian Independent States is now Italian States.

Placing of Author and Map Name changed
- Map Name moved to the Bottom Left Corner;
- Map Name is Europe 1099 - The First Crusade, instead of previous Europe 1099 - The Age of Crusades. Since it's being made a Third Crusade Map, this title (which is a very long time ago the title of this topic), seems more correct.
- Author Name moved below the Legend.

Small graphic details
- Added Bevel to Map and Author Name;
- Changed slitly opacity and style of Attacking routes;
- Unpixelated the Army Circles;
- Expanded Danmark island as sugested by iancanton.

[jefjef]

Great work!!! Can't hardly wait to play. 5 STARS

[Beko the Great]

Thanks for the continuous support jefjef.
Just noticed a minor issue. Seljuk Turks and Italian States are "continents" virtually in the same situation and one is worth 3 and the other 4... I'm not sure in the common value to give both...

[jefjef]

Thanks for the continuous support jefjef.
Just noticed a minor issue. Seljuk Turks and Italian States are "continents" virtually in the same situation and one is worth 3 and the other 4... I'm not sure in the common value to give both...

Well Italy will be a LOT harder to hold. Let that guide you.

[Beko the Great]

Thanks for the continuous support jefjef.
Just noticed a minor issue. Seljuk Turks and Italian States are "continents" virtually in the same situation and one is worth 3 and the other 4... I'm not sure in the common value to give both...

Well Italy will be a LOT harder to hold. Let that guide you.

It's as harder to hold as Seljuk... I think I'll give them +3 due to their proximity to Yerushalayim or Rome, and to have 1 shield/crescent each . Will update this in the next version.

[jefjef]

Thanks for the continuous support jefjef.
Just noticed a minor issue. Seljuk Turks and Italian States are "continents" virtually in the same situation and one is worth 3 and the other 4... I'm not sure in the common value to give both...

Well Italy will be a LOT harder to hold. Let that guide you.

It's as harder to hold as Seljuk... I think I'll give them +3 due to their proximity to Yerushalayim or Rome, and to have 1 shield/crescent each . Will update this in the next version.

Center of this map will be a battlefield. The turk bonus is in a corner. I would make Italy worth more. It has more of a strategic value without a doubt. No matter what you do you will have 3 terts to defend to hold Italy. The S Turks you can bottle it to 2 terts to defend.

[Beko the Great]

Thanks for the continuous support jefjef.
Just noticed a minor issue. Seljuk Turks and Italian States are "continents" virtually in the same situation and one is worth 3 and the other 4... I'm not sure in the common value to give both...

Well Italy will be a LOT harder to hold. Let that guide you.

It's as harder to hold as Seljuk... I think I'll give them +3 due to their proximity to Yerushalayim or Rome, and to have 1 shield/crescent each . Will update this in the next version.

Center of this map will be a battlefield. The turk bonus is in a corner. I would make Italy worth more. It has more of a strategic value without a doubt. No matter what you do you will have 3 terts to defend to hold Italy. The S Turks you can bottle it to 2 terts to defend.

I disagree with you... Yerushalayim area will be one of the most disputed, so I think Italy and Seljuk shall worth the same, and by the reasons I've mentioned, shall both worth 3.

[jefjef]

Well whatever you decide I will for sure play this map. One more point.. Italy borders/connects 3 bonus areas. S Turks borders 2. And Italy is the short route North/South route & borders the largest bonus & is very near a port. The center will be a busy area. THANK YOU! for putting up with my ramblings.

[Beko the Great]

Well whatever you decide I will for sure play this map. One more point.. Italy borders/connects 3 bonus areas. S Turks borders 2. And Italy is the short route North/South route & borders the largest bonus & is very near a port. The center will be a busy area. THANK YOU! for putting up with my ramblings.

I considered that bonus areas thing and test it all in CairnsWK's Continent Bonus Spreadsheet and the difference is minimum . When this map comes out I'll sure contact you for a dubs or trips game .

Cheers

[iancanton]

can u redraw the border for portugal, castilla, qurtuba and al-gharb to make it clear which region can attack which? it's not good for all four regions to meet at the same point because players who haven't seen the map before will always be unsure whether portugal can attack qurtuba or whether castilla can attack al-gharb.

ian.

[ender516]

If those diagonal attacks are not permitted, how would you depict it? Drop a mountain on the intersection?

[Beko the Great]

can u redraw the border for portugal, castilla, qurtuba and al-gharb to make it clear which region can attack which? it's not good for all four regions to meet at the same point because players who haven't seen the map before will always be unsure whether portugal can attack qurtuba or whether castilla can attack al-gharb.

ian.

I know this kind of borders is not the best in terms of graphics, though I don't know how can I make them better. Can you give some tip? And I think the one-way attacks help to understand the connections... One thing I can do is put something in the legend saying Portugal can One-Way Attack Al-Gharb and Castilla can one-way attack Qurtuba...

[Incandenza]

can u redraw the border for portugal, castilla, qurtuba and al-gharb to make it clear which region can attack which? it's not good for all four regions to meet at the same point because players who haven't seen the map before will always be unsure whether portugal can attack qurtuba or whether castilla can attack al-gharb.

ian.

I know this kind of borders is not the best in terms of graphics, though I don't know how can I make them better. Can you give some tip? And I think the one-way attacks help to understand the connections... One thing I can do is put something in the legend saying Portugal can One-Way Attack Al-Gharb and Castilla can one-way attack Qurtuba...

You do have room for it in the features section of the legend...

Another thing: in the bonus section of the legend, you might want to try and figure out a more intuitive way of listing the bonuses, maybe left to right and top to bottom, so it would go england, norse, france, HRE, balkans, iberias, italy, byzantium, seljuks, caliphates... might make more sense that way....

Oh, and Trapezountos appears to have misplaced its army circle.

I like the new graphics, tho I miss the byzantine icon in the old legend.

[Beko the Great]

Hello!
Here it is... The Version 18 of this map!

Large Map:

Click image to enlarge.

Small Map:

Click image to enlarge.

Add-ons
Iberian attack routes described in the Features section of the Legend

Modifications
Bonus Order in the Bonus section of the Legend

Fixings
Add Army Circle in Trapezountos
Changed Attack routes graphics (to make them clearer)
Italian States and Seljuk are worth of + 3

[iancanton]

the explanation in the legend has made the iberian attack routes clearer now. graphically, the best way is to put a mountain in the middle of the 4-way border, as ender516 said, but i'm thinking that u don't want to put one there - am i right? a river is possible (the river tejo), though u'd need a one-way bridge to allow the attack from portugal. i think what u have in the legend is enough.

my own feeling about the italian states is that they can be attacked from more directions than the seljuks, especially if jerusalem is held by a player who has an alliance with the seljuks player, so the bonus ought to be worth more. however, u have also given good reasons for setting each bonus to +3.

ian.

[Beko the Great]

the explanation in the legend has made the iberian attack routes clearer now. graphically, the best way is to put a mountain in the middle of the 4-way border, as ender516 said, but i'm thinking that u don't want to put one there - am i right? a river is possible (the river tejo), though u'd need a one-way bridge to allow the attack from portugal. i think what u have in the legend is enough.

my own feeling about the italian states is that they can be attacked from more directions than the seljuks, especially if jerusalem is held by a player who has an alliance with the seljuks player, so the bonus ought to be worth more. however, u have also given good reasons for setting each bonus to +3.

ian.

Hello!
River tejo would had some historical accuracy, maybe 40 years later because it was the border of Portugal, since conquest of Lisbon to the maurish in 1139, though, it wouldn't solve at all the visualization of the compicated 4 countries border. As you said the legend is enough

About Seljuk/Italian issue... I'll just put everything on a table so you can see how iddentical they are:

Number of Territories:
Seljuk: 5, Italian: 5

Defending Territories:
Seljuk:3, Italian: 3

Neighbour Continents:
Seljuk:1+Yerushalayim; Italian:2+Roma

Number of Shields of Crescents:
Seljuk: 1; Italian: 1

Difference is only on the number of Neighbour Continents, and I think that is compensated by the fact of the intense activity in the neighbourhood of Yerushalyim as well by the autodeploy bonus of Yerushalayim...

For me 3/3 is fair and I think it will be this way.

[The Neon Peon]

Could you please enlarge the title?

(This was probably the shortest comment I ever made on a map. O.o)

[jefjef]

Enlarge it & cover up the knight? Looks good to me. Maybe thicken the letters. As far as the one way attack it isn't confusing at all... LETS PLAY (still think Italy should be worth 4 due to its placement & the size of the bonuses it connects to & it will be hard to defend.)

[Beko the Great]

Do you think the title is small? I find it in the right proportions

[jefjef]

Do you think the title is small? I find it in the right proportions

I don't think it's too small... May wanna darken it more for better contrast.

[Beko the Great]

Do you think the title is small? I find it in the right proportions

I don't think it's too small... May wanna darken it more for better contrast.

Oh... I'll see what I can do