[Abandoned] - Second Indochina War

[FarangDemon]

Wow, terrific work on the tunnels and repositioning of the leaders, grifftron!

One thing I just realized though - the trapdoor should be removed from Quang Binh as it is not a terminus but the origin of the Ho Chi Minh Trail. Otherwise people could get confused thinking they can attack up the Ho Chi Minh Trail toward the trapdoor at Quang Binh though the legend says southward only. One idea is to put a certain different symbol on the starting point of the Ho Chi Minh Trial (maybe of an infiltrator? or an NVA helmet?) and also include that symbol in the graphic above the legend.

One other thought - the trail in CCT goes close to the eastern borders of the region, which are kind of busy. Maybe it would look less busy either going right through the CCT label or to the immediate left of it (if digits fit).

I've updated map link in OP.

[grifftron]

630x600 digi example... Looks like they all fit fine, i haven't even moved tert names around so some are covered a bit but only because i didn't re arrange the tert names... if all is OK for the mods on size i can start working on new graphics for the large version. I can make the leader section larger in size as there is tons of extra space in the legend areas...



-griff

[Victor Sullivan]

630x600 digi example... Looks like they all fit fine, i haven't even moved tert names around so some are covered a bit but only because i didn't re arrange the tert names... if all is OK for the mods on size i can start working on new graphics for the large version. I can make the leader section larger in size as there is tons of extra space in the legend areas...

-griff

You gotta do something with the text, though, I can't read a thing!

-Sully

[grifftron]

630x600 digi example... Looks like they all fit fine, i haven't even moved tert names around so some are covered a bit but only because i didn't re arrange the tert names... if all is OK for the mods on size i can start working on new graphics for the large version. I can make the leader section larger in size as there is tons of extra space in the legend areas...

-griff

You gotta do something with the text, though, I can't read a thing!

-Sully

Yea i wasn't going to re do all the text to make it look nice only to have to mods say its not gonna work, but i could make the text for SURE a little larger in all those terts and readible, and if for some reason the text + the digis were an issue in some of those smaller terts, i know i can even fudge with the boarders more in all places... so i wasn't worried, i am just waiting on the OK so i can go ahead and start working on a better looking map.

[Victor Sullivan]

630x600 digi example... Looks like they all fit fine, i haven't even moved tert names around so some are covered a bit but only because i didn't re arrange the tert names... if all is OK for the mods on size i can start working on new graphics for the large version. I can make the leader section larger in size as there is tons of extra space in the legend areas...

-griff

You gotta do something with the text, though, I can't read a thing!

-Sully

Yea i wasn't going to re do all the text to make it look nice only to have to mods say its not gonna work, but i could make the text for SURE a little larger in all those terts and readible, and if for some reason the text + the digis were an issue in some of those smaller terts, i know i can even fudge with the boarders more in all places... so i wasn't worried, i am just waiting on the OK so i can go ahead and start working on a better looking map.

IMHO, I really think you have to go supersize a bit, also because some 888s cover up symbols and the leaders' faces too much.

-Sully

[grifftron]

Well this is why I am waiting for a mod to come and tell me what its gonna be, because look at that room on the small version around the sides, i can easily enlarge the section of the leaders so that it will not be over their faces, but to do all that work and then be told to supersize a map that i dont want to supersize, sucks... wasted time sucks. IMRHO i think it will all fit, but MRHO doesn't matter in the CC world now does it

[jackin_u_up]

Map looks rad.
Can't wait to play.
Great job

[MarshalNey]

Hmmm. The text is legible, but barely. It would definitely have to go a point or two larger. The Leader section of the legend is also too squished, but there does seem to be some space to increase it as you say.

I'm not sure how I feel about this though. On the one hand, I think that everything can be fit into the small version and made legible. However, I'm not sure that "cramped and tiny" is a good way to go for a map that is moderately complex in its gameplay. I don't want to unnecessarily advocate an increase in the size of the map by supersizing though, and I'm sure that it would be a pain in the butt for griffton to re-work it. On the other hand if supersizing would significantly enhance the overall clarity by reducing the "busy" look of the legend and terts, then I think it should be done.

So I'm torn.

I'm going to ask around to see what some of the other CAs think. In the meantime, Griff, Farang, how do you feel about supersize vs. non-supersize? Would you prefer to stay within the normal parameters or would a slight supersizing (maybe 20-50 pixels per side) be welcome?

-- Marshal Ney

[grifftron]

Hmmm. The text is legible, but barely. It would definitely have to go a point or two larger. The Leader section of the legend is also too squished, but there does seem to be some space to increase it as you say.

I'm not sure how I feel about this though. On the one hand, I think that everything can be fit into the small version and made legible. However, I'm not sure that "cramped and tiny" is a good way to go for a map that is moderately complex in its gameplay. I don't want to unnecessarily advocate an increase in the size of the map by supersizing though, and I'm sure that it would be a pain in the butt for griffton to re-work it. On the other hand if supersizing would significantly enhance the overall clarity by reducing the "busy" look of the legend and terts, then I think it should be done.

So I'm torn.

I'm going to ask around to see what some of the other CAs think. In the meantime, Griff, Farang, how do you feel about supersize vs. non-supersize? Would you prefer to stay within the normal parameters or would a slight supersizing (maybe 20-50 pixels per side) be welcome?

-- Marshal Ney

Hey if CC allowed for a slight supersized map that would be awesome, its not a lot of work for me to supersize or do anything right now, i just don't want to pour in work to find out the size has to change... i dont like the huge supersized maps, i like normal sized maps, but if it can be slightly worked and allowed that would be great, i will wait on your answer..

[isaiah40]

I'm going to ask around to see what some of the other CAs think. In the meantime, Griff, Farang, how do you feel about supersize vs. non-supersize? Would you prefer to stay within the normal parameters or would a slight supersizing (maybe 20-50 pixels per side) be welcome?

-- Marshal Ney

I think we can allow a few extra pixels for this for clarity's sake. I think 50 extra should do it for the small only IMO.

[grifftron]

I'm going to ask around to see what some of the other CAs think. In the meantime, Griff, Farang, how do you feel about supersize vs. non-supersize? Would you prefer to stay within the normal parameters or would a slight supersizing (maybe 20-50 pixels per side) be welcome?

-- Marshal Ney

I think we can allow a few extra pixels for this for clarity's sake. I think 50 extra should do it for the small only IMO.

Is this the official "We will give you 50x50 on both sizes" from the mods ?

If so, just so i get this right, i will have to upsize both small and map by 50x50px each right?

-griff

[FarangDemon]

To replace the text explaining that each leader can assault and is assaulted by his power center, I propose the following:

"Leader <symbol of portrait>
(arrow pointing down and up)
Power Center <symbol for power center>"

Bidirectional arrow shows bidirectionality of attack. Putting text for "Power Center" below "Leader" makes it clear because each Power Center label is below the leader's portrait. Adding symbols for leader and power center could further enhance clarity.

[isaiah40]

Is this the official "We will give you 50x50 on both sizes" from the mods ?

If so, just so i get this right, i will have to upsize both small and map by 50x50px each right?

-griff

Not yet, we are discussing, but it shouldn't be long. The way I see it, since you can fit everything in just fine on the large, we will just be looking at it for the small.

Give us a couple more days and we'll let you know (maybe even sooner )

[grifftron]

Is this the official "We will give you 50x50 on both sizes" from the mods ?

If so, just so i get this right, i will have to upsize both small and map by 50x50px each right?

-griff

Not yet, we are discussing, but it shouldn't be long. The way I see it, since you can fit everything in just fine on the large, we will just be looking at it for the small.

Give us a couple more days and we'll let you know (maybe even sooner )

Hope sooner, kinda itching to get it going.

[MarshalNey]

We're mostly in agreement that the 50x50 pixels for the small image only is fine, I just posted a notification to all the Foundry mods in case one of them saw a problem. At the most, it'll be two days before you get the official word (but probably sooner as izzy said).

As for Farang's suggestion, I approve. Symbols, especially attack arrows, are always more helpful than words if properly and sparingly applied.

-- Marshal Ney

[grifftron]

I took the impassable key off for the moment, i will be re doing all the impassables once this gets into graphics... same with those ugly bombing areas on the map... Took the HTMS trail off too, just seen that, ill put it back on, nothing changed with that... but ill redo the graphics on it later

Click image to enlarge.

-griff

[Victor Sullivan]

We're mostly in agreement that the 50x50 pixels for the small image only is fine, I just posted a notification to all the Foundry mods in case one of them saw a problem. At the most, it'll be two days before you get the official word (but probably sooner as izzy said).

Do you guys have pet names for each other or something? **Yanks MarshalNey's chain.**

Anywho, it's certainly looking better, griff! I'd advise staying away from dark symbols, as they are hard to see on the dark blue and grey.

-Sully

[MarshalNey]

Got the green light from the Foundry Foreman, so Griff you may start your engines and supersize the small map (only) by 50 pixels in each dimension.

-- Marshal Ney

P.S. Do you have a problem with pet names, "Sully"? Keep yanking and I'll start calling you Vicky instead

[grifftron]

We're mostly in agreement that the 50x50 pixels for the small image only is fine, I just posted a notification to all the Foundry mods in case one of them saw a problem. At the most, it'll be two days before you get the official word (but probably sooner as izzy said).

Do you guys have pet names for each other or something? **Yanks MarshalNey's chain.**

Anywho, it's certainly looking better, griff! I'd advise staying away from dark symbols, as they are hard to see on the dark blue and grey.

-Sully

The planes are a bit hard to see huh... I could always add an outer glow, ill experience with diff colors too, i wanted a black & white them on this entire map.. but I got to find a creative way to do so as lots of things need to be clear.

-griff

[Victor Sullivan]

P.S. Do you have a problem with pet names, "Sully"? Keep yanking and I'll start calling you Vicky instead

Oh, you know you're welcome to my place anytime, Marshal

-Sully

EDIT: No pedo.

[Victor Sullivan]

We're mostly in agreement that the 50x50 pixels for the small image only is fine, I just posted a notification to all the Foundry mods in case one of them saw a problem. At the most, it'll be two days before you get the official word (but probably sooner as izzy said).

Do you guys have pet names for each other or something? **Yanks MarshalNey's chain.**

Anywho, it's certainly looking better, griff! I'd advise staying away from dark symbols, as they are hard to see on the dark blue and grey.

-Sully

The planes are a bit hard to see huh... I could always add an outer glow, ill experience with diff colors too, i wanted a black & white them on this entire map.. but I got to find a creative way to do so as lots of things need to be clear.

-griff

Well, I was thinking more the lightning bolt icons. The planes are fine (except for the one green one in Danang).

[grifftron]

Hmm I'll see what I can do then when I move into graphics... Still going for that gp stamp atm

[grifftron]

We need a new idea for the bomber zones, it makes the map look way to crazy with all those different colored outlines all over the map.. but besides that, does the gameplay check out yet? Ill put the small map digis up soon

Click image to enlarge.

-griff

[grifftron]

Small Version 680x648 with digis (Just a digi test)... I thought it looked great with the 50x50 extension



-griff

[MarshalNey]

I agree, the extension was an enormous boost. Put the small image in bigimg tags too, since the extension puts it under your fine collection of medals in your avatar!

Otherwise, well... those bombing missions need some kind of symbolic correlation to the map before I can kick this over to graphics. If you don't like the outlines (and yes they do make the map a bit 'crazy') then I'm 100% behind an alternate scheme, but outlines are the best that I've seen so far. I'm a bit short of ideas atm for something better... an overlay won't work unless it's really smooth. Maybe an outline will work if you tweak it in graphics? Smoother blending, or use of symbols (like hatching). Graphics isn't really my strong suit but surely something could be done?

-- Marshal Ney