Conquer Club

Accused:

BigBallinStalin
NotAZooIg

The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s):
Game 5670486

Comments:

Both admitted in game chate that they had been private messaging each other to form alliances and conduct secret tactics.

One of many references to PM's about the game:

BigBallinStalin wrote:2009-10-17 22:25:34 - BigBallinStalin: I haven't made any back deals, everything's posted here, TERRORIST SCUM!
2009-10-17 22:29:27 - BigBallinStalin: Listen, if team 3 and team 2 remain hostile with one another, team 4 will win the game. This will happen if nothing is done to him.
2009-10-17 22:30:07 - BigBallinStalin: And/or if team 3 and team 1 remain hostile, then team 4 will win. This is a fact, he's got russia, and each of us is too weak. Team 4 will knock us out one at a time while we bicker and argue
2009-10-17 22:40:07 - BigBallinStalin: ok, sent PM to Graemek to see if the terrorist can be calmed down

Although BigBall was trying to be above board by noting in chat about the discussion via PM, The rules explicitly state that:

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand.

Even though he said (later on in chat) to post the gist of the PM's in chat, I think that this still violates the rules, as each player deserves to see the "source Documentation" of any alliances.

Piccolol6 wrote:Accused:

BigBallinStalin
NotAZooIg

The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s):
Game 5670486

Comments:

Both admitted in game chate that they had been private messaging each other to form alliances and conduct secret tactics.

fixed

I've parded with and played many a game with & against BBS.

I have never known him to cheat.

I have known him to FEED SHIT TO PEOPLE.

& this joker

2009-10-20 09:56:13 - Piccolol6: Obviously it happens and BigBallinStalin does it all the time, I don't really care. Everyone team up to take me out, go for it.

Not only doesn't know what he's talking about he also needs his multi ass busted.

If BBS did com via pm shame on him but there best be some evidence.

jefjef wrote:If BBS did com via pm but there best be some evidence.

Well he did kind of admit it. However he should just get warned because this is a bit of a grayish area in the rules, or at least one open to interpretation…

jefjef wrote:I've parded with and played many a game with & against BBS.

I have never known him to cheat.

I have known him to FEED SHIT TO PEOPLE.

& this joker

2009-10-20 09:56:13 - Piccolol6: Obviously it happens and BigBallinStalin does it all the time, I don't really care. Everyone team up to take me out, go for it.

Not only doesn't know what he's talking about he also needs his multi ass busted.

If BBS did com via pm shame on him but there best be some evidence.

Indeed it does look 'sketchy' but anyone can say anything in game chat. Though they sort of admit it in game chat 2009-10-21 01:05:31 - NotAZooIgloo: BBS and I have been PMing. Everything he said above is what we were talking about.
Pending for now

jefjef wrote:Not only doesn't know what he's talking about he also needs his multi ass busted.

do you want to calrify the 'multi ass' part?

I remember a similar case on this "gray area" that was never really resolved as far as I can tell (See page two)
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=49974&hilit=Steinmeister&start=15
Also since I'm posting let me add that BigBallinStalin, in addition to having one of the funniest names in CC is a great character and fun to play with in my experience.

Rule #2: No secret diplomacy
Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand. Diplomacy includes, but is not limited to: proposing truces, negotiating alliances, and coordinating assaults. Secret diplomacy can be hard to prove, but if you suspect it you should leave the players in question appropriate ratings. If you feel certain about players engaging in secret diplomacy consider reporting them in the Cheating & Abuse Reports forum by posting a new topic.

The first sentence says it all, it's not a grey area at all. ANY FORM OF DIPLOMATIC DISCUSSION, and it further explains that PROPOSING TRUCES is a fine example of this. This is exactly what BigBallinStalin did, he proposed and worked a truce/alliance via PM.

Simple fact is that (1) BBS engaged in diplomactic discussion between an opponent (2) to propose a truce, (3) negotiate the alliance, and (4) coordinate the assaults.

Just because (after the fact) they were posted in game chat does not mean that it is not a violation.

At least that is how I understand the rules based on the language that they were written on.

I can see and understand both sides of the argument, but I am leaning more towards that it is a bit of a grey area as there can be a bit of a misinterpretation. Although BBS did PM his opponents to organize these truces, he did post everything in the game chat. So technically everything was known to all of the other players, which makes this a bit debatable. This seems like one of those spirit of the law vs the wording of the law cases. So good luck cracking this case mods

I say a simple warning, and a precedent that all truce related activity be done in the chat. Just like the frickin rule clearly states.

I think it's obvious that he wasn't trying to cheat or be bad, but the fact remains that he used PM's instead of game chat. Just like the frickin rule clearly states.

Why use chat? because if i'm on the other end of the truce in a game, I don't fucking know what they are wispering about in the PM, and I don't trust any assclown to tell me the whole truth about it. Just do the talking in the chat. Just like the frickin rule clearly states. Relaying "we gotz truce, talked in pm" is different than a page long discussion about terms and round limits.

Truces are lame anyway.

Dear Voldemort, I'm very busy now, and I haven't the time to properly defend myself immediately. Can you please give me 24 hours?　However, I'm quite sure I can address every in detail here within the next 6 hours...

Be back soon.

i dont know ballin stalin to be a cheater!

i will vouch for that much!

BigBallinStalin wrote:Dear Voldemort, I'm very busy now, and I haven't the time to properly defend myself immediately. Can you please give me 24 hours?　However, I'm quite sure I can address every in detail here within the next 6 hours...

Be back soon.

Be prepared LV.

I'm curious about his defense as well.

BTW: I think Big Ball is a good guy, and not a cheater on purpose. However how cool he is has nothing to do with the incorrect action during this singular (so far) game.

The evidence sure points to a mistake made, most probably unintentionally. But a mistake none the less.

I"m more concerned about the action itself, and how it is judged, and not at all that it was Bigball who is the subject of this issue.

Ok, ya freakazoids, I PM'ed voldemort, and it's up to him to post my case here (doubt it though, but it was fun to write! )

Devony Irons - Vampire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-yOCiGoR8E

Damn troublesome vampires...

It has been decided to warn the parties involved.
Though they tried to do the right thing and post the conversations in game chat. The rules clearly state that Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in a language that all opponents understand. Diplomacy includes, but is not limited to: proposing truces, negotiating alliances, and coordinating attacks.

lv

Good ruling, I hope the warning wasn't too harsh, due to the fact that they tried.

Well Ball. Shame on you. Apparently there was pm's. A jack boot up your ass is deserved pard.

bbs is a liar and a cheater. i know because i played with him in previouse games. i agree with picclol6. it was wrong of him to use PM to form an allieanse and co attacks

This is complete bull and another reason why higher ranks don't want to play with lower ranks. He clearly stated that there was a truce but there was no coordinated attacks and even if there was gray had the two bonus. So it seems like a bunch of babies crying like the example above. Fuckin joke as usual. Hope all those clowns foe me and stalin so they never join our games again. What a joke You never know if those fools read the game chat to begin with. P.S. Or if they can read

low rank slime like skittleman and piccolol deserve scabies.

again, where's the option to foe all low-ranks, so i can avoid all these hassles?

skittleman wrote:bbs is a liar and a cheater. i know because i played with him in previouse games. i agree with picclol6. it was wrong of him to use PM to form an allieanse and co attacks

Haha, your rating is a 3.7