Conquer Club

Accused:

thezepman




The accused are suspected of:


Conducting Secret Diplomacy



Game number(s):

Game 4632834

Comments:

This is an excerpt from chat:

2009-04-07 23:22:25 - thezepman: ORANGE READ YOUR WALL

On pfleegman's wall, he had written: attack UK and ill attack. giving you a chance to win.

I have a screenshot of this but don't know where or how to upload it. This in the end did not affect the outcome of the game - pfleegman won, but it was nothing to do with what thezepman wrote. However, thezepman claimed this was not SD and it clearly was. I think someone should explain to him what is and isn't SD.

Thanks.

Link to the game: http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=4632834
Link to thezepman profile: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=240073
Link to pfleegman profile: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=188524

Everything really should be left on the table, in other words game chat. But I'm not sure that is secret diplomacy, it was trying to have a secret diplomacy, but ORANGE READ YOUR WALL is kind of obvious and I'm sure most players went and looked at his wall. Maybe at worst should be given, just to remind Zep of the rules.

ahote wrote:I think someone should explain to him what is and isn't SD.

"Rule #2: No secret diplomacy

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand. Diplomacy includes, but is not limited to: proposing truces, negotiating alliances, and coordinating assaults. Secret diplomacy can be hard to prove, but if you suspect it you should leave the players in question appropriate ratings. If you feel certain about players engaging in secret diplomacy consider reporting them in the Cheating & Abuse Reports forum by posting a new topic."

I think you should take that stick out of your snake's hole. you purple rag!

If its proven I did conduct a a 'secret diplomacy'... ill take full responsibility and whatever consequences come with it. However, no longer will i provide in game advice/help/strategies nor post on individuals walls about it...

Alas, my foe list was getting a little bit lonely...

some people dont read game chat...

is it ok if you write the exact same message on someones wall as you ave done in game chat? or even copy and paste the whole thing

thezepman wrote:

ahote wrote:I think someone should explain to him what is and isn't SD.

"Rule #2: No secret diplomacy

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand. Diplomacy includes, but is not limited to: proposing truces, negotiating alliances, and coordinating assaults. Secret diplomacy can be hard to prove, but if you suspect it you should leave the players in question appropriate ratings. If you feel certain about players engaging in secret diplomacy consider reporting them in the Cheating & Abuse Reports forum by posting a new topic."

I think you should take that dildo out of your ass. you fucken douche!

If its proven I did conduct a a 'secret diplomacy'... ill take full responsibility and whatever consequences come with it. However, no longer will i provide in game advice/help/strategies nor post on individuals walls about it...

Alas, my foe list was getting a little bit lonely...

I don't think anything will come of this and I'm not even advocating it, but it's not OK to write instructions on a wall - some people don't read the game chat and in the end, all you wanted was for orange to kill pink for you - either way, it was not out in the open.

You know, for a brig you have an attitude - I wonder how you'd feel if someone else had done the same thing? Anyway, foeing is for pussies - good riddance dude.

ahote wrote:all you wanted was for orange to kill pink for you

I applaud you for your stupidity

ahote wrote:but it's not OK to write instructions on a wall

However, its okay to propose a suggestion on someones wall and announce it within game chat? the reason behind posting on he's wall being to get he's attention. since it was a speed game and i had no reason to believe he was following game chat... sorry, i didnt have enough time to make a formal proposal...

ahote wrote:You know, for a brig you have an attitude - I wonder how you'd feel if someone else had done the same thing? Anyway, foeing is for pussies - good riddance dude.

Did I hurt your feelings? baby want a bottle? your attempts to make the community a better place have failed. go catch up on the latest season of Dr. Phil... you fucken tool of society.

Bye ahote, nice knowing you!

thezepman wrote:

ahote wrote:all you wanted was for orange to kill pink for you

I applaud you for your stupidity

ahote wrote:but it's not OK to write instructions on a wall

However, its okay to propose a suggestion on someones wall and announce it within game chat? the reason behind posting on he's wall being to get he's attention. since it was a speed game and i had no reason to believe he was following game chat... sorry, i didnt have enough time to make a formal proposal...

ahote wrote:You know, for a brig you have an attitude - I wonder how you'd feel if someone else had done the same thing? Anyway, foeing is for pussies - good riddance dude.

Did I hurt your feelings? baby want a bottle? your attempts to make the community a better place have failed. go catch up on the latest season of Dr. Phil... you fucken tool of society.

Bye ahote, nice knowing you!

The above red highlighted statements prooves what zepman's aim was in such a clear way. To my best understanding, there is not even a little piece of secret diplomacy in this. Ahote, you know me, i do know you. You are a nice person. This report of yours seems like because of the idea of yours that you dont believe that was fair play. But fair play and secret diplomacy are two different stuff. Leave him appropriate ratings but under these terms, secret diplomacy is out of question. If it was a secret diplomacy, he wouldnt placed his note in the pfleegman's wall and also wouldnt bring his words in game chat and wouldnt tell him to look his wall.

A piece of note for zepman, everyone can be accused which is normal. It is why there is a court room (cheat & abuse forum) and i m sure you will be cleared. But better for you to calm down and take easy instead using those out of nice words.

HardAttack wrote:

thezepman wrote:

ahote wrote:all you wanted was for orange to kill pink for you

I applaud you for your stupidity

ahote wrote:but it's not OK to write instructions on a wall

However, its okay to propose a suggestion on someones wall and announce it within game chat? the reason behind posting on he's wall being to get he's attention. since it was a speed game and i had no reason to believe he was following game chat... sorry, i didnt have enough time to make a formal proposal...


Did I hurt your feelings? baby want a bottle? your attempts to make the community a better place have failed. go catch up on the latest season of Dr. Phil... you fucken tool of society.

Bye ahote, nice knowing you!

The above red highlighted statements prooves what zepman's aim was in such a clear way. To my best understanding, there is not even a little piece of secret diplomacy in this.

Hardattack, I respect your judgement and am ready to let it go - however, I still believe that the correct way to do it, is to write the instruction in chat and THEN write on the person's wall "LOOK AT GAME CHAT." to get their attention.

Either way, his continuous namecalling and unwillingness to enter into a dialogue about this sum him up. I'm done here.

Thanks for trying to sort this out though, appreciate it.

thezepman, as per Rule #2, all diplomatic discussion between opponents must be done in the game chat of that game in English or a language that all users in that game understand. This thread will be marked [Noted] for future reference. I have asked for an admin to rule on FredVIII's comment about posting the same message on a wall and in the game chat. For now, please do not post on a wall, this is the more prudent option.

At the request of lancehoch, I'm here to verify that all communication between players regarding in-game diplomacy MUST occur within the game chat box. Anything outside of that is considered secret-diplomacy and thereby constitutes cheating.

Regards,
Optimus Prime

Optimus Prime wrote:At the request of lancehoch, I'm here to verify that all communication between players regarding in-game diplomacy MUST occur within the game chat box. Anything outside of that is considered secret-diplomacy and thereby constitutes cheating.

Regards,
Optimus Prime

Is this then over-ruling lance, who said you can tell someone to "read the chat" on their wall or by PM?

The Neon Peon wrote:

Optimus Prime wrote:At the request of lancehoch, I'm here to verify that all communication between players regarding in-game diplomacy MUST occur within the game chat box. Anything outside of that is considered secret-diplomacy and thereby constitutes cheating.

Regards,
Optimus Prime

Is this then over-ruling lance, who said you can tell someone to "read the chat" on their wall or by PM?

It seems really clear to me: Youc an say anything you want in chat and you can PM someone or write on their wall, requesting them to read the chat.

E.G. You write in chat:"red, I'm not after your bonus, getting ready to move to sarah desert."

Then PM them saying: I left you a message in chat in game xxxxxxx

It's not OK to do it the other way around.

I don't see that there's an over-ruling or a contradiction.

So "secret diplomacy" doesn't have to be secretive at all! I can see how the 'right' way would have been to write on his wall saying to read the chat, and telling the person what to do in the game chat. But still, the vice versa is like the same thing. In this case the game chat wasn't too busy so Zepman should have just said it in chat, but there are games where there is a shitload of chat going on, and if it's speed one may not have time to find it or it would at least be easier to just write it on the wall. There should be 2 separate chats, 1 for gameplay and 1 for chat; or you should be able to conduct diplomacy on anothers board.