King_Herpes [Closed]

[FarangDemon]

Accused:

King_Herpes

The accused are suspected of:

Gross Abuse of the Game
Benefiting from Thrown Games

As farmers move up the scoreboard it also harms the competitive nature of Conquer Club - the scoreboard is meant to measure skill in the game, not "harvesting" techniques.

Some players have been farming extensively - even sending hundreds of PMs to the latest members to get them into their games.

This is a gross abuse of the game.

While Lack was addressing Newbie Farming, these same arguments quoted above hold forth for the farming of the lowest skilled players as alleged herewith.

These 4 active games are evidence of systematic targeting of players to gain easy points by taking advantage of difficult game options and the fact the Cooks/Cadets are more likely to deadbeat. 3 of the games are private games, indicating a systematic effort to contact and enlist these players into games for easy point gain.

This is essentially the same harvesting technique as defined by lack, which he states the scoreboard should not reflect.

Public Game Targeting Cooks and Cadets in Quads

Game 3951426 3 cooks, 1 cadet

Private Games Targeting Cooks and Cadets in Quad Games

Game 3828147 Waterloo - 2 cooks, 2 cadets
Game 3828146 ConquerMan - 2 cooks, 2 cadets
Game 3828145 World 2.1 - 1 cook, 2 cadets, 1 corporal

Comments: Cooks represent the bottom 9% of players in terms of score. Cadets are the next 9% above them. Only the worst New Recruits will attain these ranks by consistently losing games. Thus these players are taken advantage of just as easily as New Recruits are, if not more easily, and by exact same methods.

Systematic targeting of these players for easy point gain by taking advantage of difficult map settings and their likelihood to deadbeat (at least one has already) is a gross abuse of the game.

Thrown Game

Game 3839459 Convinced opponent to throw game and thanks him for doing it

Comments:

Flabio got him down to 8 regions in the 10th round, but after some negotiations changed his mind and decided to let Herpes go.

2008-12-14 14:30:52 - flabio: Thanks for playin Herp. I know you shootin 4 conquer once again. a real king mingles with the plebs.
2008-12-15 13:15:21 - flabio: I'm going to feel bad for taking points from you Herp, you deserve them more than I do.
2008-12-17 12:35:41 - flabio: I can drag this game out if you wish.
2008-12-27 09:42:14 - King_Herpes: Thanks for being cool about this flabio
2008-12-27 09:42:28 - King_Herpes: Hope you're having a good holiday
2008-12-28 07:53:13 - flabio: No probs Herp.

[demonfork]

Accused:

King_Herpes

The accused are suspected of:

Gross Abuse of the Game
Benefiting from Thrown Games

As farmers move up the scoreboard it also harms the competitive nature of Conquer Club - the scoreboard is meant to measure skill in the game, not "harvesting" techniques.

Some players have been farming extensively - even sending hundreds of PMs to the latest members to get them into their games.

This is a gross abuse of the game.

While Lack was addressing Newbie Farming, these same arguments quoted above hold forth for the farming of the lowest skilled players as alleged herewith.

These 4 active games are evidence of systematic targeting of players to gain easy points by taking advantage of difficult game options and the fact the Cooks/Cadets are more likely to deadbeat. 3 of the games are private games, indicating a systematic effort to contact and enlist these players into games for easy point gain.

This is essentially the same harvesting technique as defined by lack, which he states the scoreboard should not reflect.

Public Game Targeting Cooks and Cadets in Quads

Game 3951426 3 cooks, 1 cadet

Private Games Targeting Cooks and Cadets in Quad Games

Game 3828147 Waterloo - 2 cooks, 2 cadets
Game 3828146 ConquerMan - 2 cooks, 2 cadets
Game 3828145 World 2.1 - 1 cook, 2 cadets, 1 corporal

Comments: Cooks represent the bottom 9% of players in terms of score. Cadets are the next 9% above them. Only the worst New Recruits will attain these ranks by consistently losing games. Thus these players are taken advantage of just as easily as New Recruits are, if not more easily, and by exact same methods.

Systematic targeting of these players for easy point gain by taking advantage of difficult map settings and their likelihood to deadbeat (at least one has already) is a gross abuse of the game.

Thrown Game

Game 3839459 Convinced opponent to throw game and thanks him for doing it

Comments:

Flabio got him down to 8 regions in the 10th round, but after some negotiations changed his mind and decided to let Herpes go.

2008-12-14 14:30:52 - flabio: Thanks for playin Herp. I know you shootin 4 conquer once again. a real king mingles with the plebs.
2008-12-15 13:15:21 - flabio: I'm going to feel bad for taking points from you Herp, you deserve them more than I do.
2008-12-17 12:35:41 - flabio: I can drag this game out if you wish.
2008-12-27 09:42:14 - King_Herpes: Thanks for being cool about this flabio
2008-12-27 09:42:28 - King_Herpes: Hope you're having a good holiday
2008-12-28 07:53:13 - flabio: No probs Herp.

Hey Farang, do you really feel honest about taking lines of game chat completely out of context and making them appear to be something that they are not?

THERE ARE 31 LINES OF CHAT AND 2 DAYS BETWEEN THIS LINE.....

2008-12-17 12:35:41 - flabio: I can drag this game out if you wish.

and this line....

2008-12-27 09:42:14 - King_Herpes: Thanks for being cool about this flabio


Your pathetic attempt to try and deceive people into believing something false by manipulating the game chat only turns your accusation into a complete joke.

If you look at the above posted chat lines in context, you will find that The King is thanking Fabio for being cool about Herp "milking the game to the last second", meaning that The King was going to try and put off the points loss for as long as he possibly could.

Furthermore you make the claim that The King "convinced" the other player to throw the game! This claim is completely false and has absolutely no truth to it whatsoever!

I challenge anyone to find anything in the game log that would even come remotely close to The King convincing Fabio to throw the game.

This accusation is a joke and the mods should lock this thread post haste!

[alster]

FarangDemon - This is a bullshit post you made.

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

this is going to get locked. your going to have all the herpes lovers post on his side and your going to have all the herpes haters posting against him and the issue in question will never be discussed. prepare for lockdown.

[EagleofGreenErth]

In the past we've asked for the ability to restrict what ranks can join our games. This idea has been shot down. They said it won't be done. Seems you are asking for the same thing here.

[FarangDemon]

In the past we've asked for the ability to restrict what ranks can join our games. This idea has been shot down. They said it won't be done. Seems you are asking for the same thing here.

This is quite different. Many of these games are private games. That means that these Cadets and Cooks did not just join by chance. They were actively recruited by Herpes because of the fact that they are Cadets/Cooks so he could make risk-free points by taking advantage of them on difficult map settings and also benefit from their increased likelihood of deadbeating.

[FabledIntegral]

Irrelevant. The anti-farming methods don't specify anything beyond deadbeating players/new recruits. Such cooks and cadets are poor players, nothing else. Just because you feel it's morally wrong doesn't mean you're going to convict someone.

Stop abusing the point system yourself.

[prismsaber]

The public game is in no way abuse and the only way you can determine if the private ones are is if it can be proven that he tricked the cooks, etc. into joining them with a dubious link or other deceitful method.

[Incandenza]

In the past we've asked for the ability to restrict what ranks can join our games. This idea has been shot down. They said it won't be done. Seems you are asking for the same thing here.

This is quite different. Many of these games are private games. That means that these Cadets and Cooks did not just join by chance. They were actively recruited by Herpes because of the fact that they are Cadets/Cooks so he could make risk-free points by taking advantage of them on difficult map settings and also benefit from their increased likelihood of deadbeating.

Brand new players are one thing, but I have zero sympathy for a cadet with a couple hundred games in getting his or her clock cleaned in any game on any settings. They should know better, and the fact that they don't is probably a strong contributor to why they're still cadets.

Besides, isn't all this somewhat against the whole egalitarian "your rank doesn't reflect your skill" nature of CC that I hear so much about? Who's to say that the next top player isn't currently toiling around 1000 points as they get their shit together? Or maybe they're formerly highly ranked but have deranked while chasing medals?

I suppose the real point is this: you wouldn't give a shit if Herp was the 97th ranked player, or the 54th ranked player, or the 12th ranked player. But no, heaven forefend that the conqueror should ever play any games against anyone, 'cause no matter what, he'll never satisfy the likes of you. Playing against high ranks? He's elitist. Playing against low ranks? He's a farmer. So seriously STFU, play your own game, and let other people play theirs. Christ.

And for what it's worth, I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm just so sick and tired of all the jealously and whining. Because if there's one thing I've learned on this site, it's that the people that complain the most about scoring are the people that think it's an assault on their basic civil rights that they're not ranked higher.

[Woodruff]

I suppose the real point is this: you wouldn't give a shit if Herp was the 97th ranked player, or the 54th ranked player, or the 12th ranked player. But no, heaven forefend that the conqueror should ever play any games against anyone, 'cause no matter what, he'll never satisfy the likes of you. Playing against high ranks? He's elitist. Playing against low ranks? He's a farmer. So seriously STFU, play your own game, and let other people play theirs. Christ.

I seriously doubt there'd be any bitching at all if the Conqueror was playing only the high ranks.

[Incandenza]

I suppose the real point is this: you wouldn't give a shit if Herp was the 97th ranked player, or the 54th ranked player, or the 12th ranked player. But no, heaven forefend that the conqueror should ever play any games against anyone, 'cause no matter what, he'll never satisfy the likes of you. Playing against high ranks? He's elitist. Playing against low ranks? He's a farmer. So seriously STFU, play your own game, and let other people play theirs. Christ.

I seriously doubt there'd be any bitching at all if the Conqueror was playing only the high ranks.

There would be and there most certainly has been. It's the "ZOMG elitist afraid to lose points to lower ranks" argument.

[Artimis]

Game 3828147 Waterloo - 2 cooks, 2 cadets
Game 3828146 ConquerMan - 2 cooks, 2 cadets
Game 3828145 World 2.1 - 1 cook, 2 cadets, 1 corporal

I don't like to play devils advocate but I will anyway. Those games were actually setup and started well before the new rules against new recruit farming came into effect, so to apply punishment using those rules retro-actively would be grossly unfair in my opinion. King_Herpes' only other options for exiting the game are 1) to deliberately lose by throwing the game(against the rules) or 2) deliberately deadbeat(also against the rules). Now lets take a closer look at the other teams profiles:

Master M. joined CC on Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:54 am
Sanguine Seed joined CC on Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:47 am
Napoleon Ier joined CC on Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:33 pm
Fire Mario joined CC on Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:47 am
pedro96 joined CC on Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:25 am
ardvark20 joined CC on Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:10 am
ookla joined CC on Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:45 am
lex1984 joined CC on Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:44 am

Well, well, looks like most of them have been around for a while, in fact I'm the new kid on the block with a join date of Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:09 pm(check my profile HERE). So that kills the "he's farming new recruits" argument. I believe that KH is taking a bigger risk in playing low ranks than you give credit for, they need only to pull off one upset to wipe out all the gains he's made in the last few games he's won.

In addition I'm not surprised he sets up private games, especially with all the harassment he receives both in the forums and in game. Who really would enjoy a game where the other players are bleating on about how over-rated your skills are and over inflated your score is. Be honest FarangDemon, would you want to play such a game yourself?

[lancehoch]

Ok, this is getting marked [Closed], locked, and moved to Closed Reports. Farang, if you read the game chat, you will see that flabio challenged herpes to the game (while flabio was inebriated). If you look at the game chat (again), you will see that herpes is stalling, not flabio, because herpes is trying to delay losing points (also, if he is going to lose 100 points anyway, he might as well have more to lose from). Another note, if you look at the board, flabio is actually killing herpes, he is not throwing the game. Please consider the games you are posting before you post, that is the part of the form that says "Be sure before you accuse someone!" As for the other games, these people have ranks, they have completed more than 5 games. The rule that was instated was against farming New Recruits. Sorry, but there is nothing untoward going on here.

[FarangDemon]

Reading game logs is a recipe for success in Conquer Club. You can use it to figure out how many territories your opponents have in a fog game among other things.

For the test I have devised, take a look at the game log in Game 3839459 and select all statements which are true.

BONUS QUESTION

What was the total number of armies deployed by each player in rounds 9 through 11?

For the first player to post the correct answer, I will fill your wall with praise until my fingers are sore!

[King_Herpes]

How your brain is wired is beyond me FD. Just so you understand and don't get all over zealous, Flabio and I have agreed to delay that game. The outcome of that game will not change in my favor and that was never the point of the delay. He will win and I have no intentions of having any game thrown to me. Ever! You have lost your mind with this whole hair splitting crusade...


*On a side note, your threads are highly entertaining. Normally a person would probably suggest that you should quit making bogus accusations/attacks against their character by constantly making a fuss about only their games. Although I won't because then the belly laughs would stop. Please keep up the good work.

[lt.pie]

*On a side note, your threads are highly entertaining. Normally a person would probably suggest that you should quit making bogus accusations/attacks against their character by constantly making a fuss about only their games. Although I won't because then the belly laughs would stop. Please keep up the good work.[/quote]
You have more patience with the n00bs than me... Foed for being a dick.

[FarangDemon]

How your brain is wired is beyond me FD. Just so you understand and don't get all over zealous, Flabio and I have agreed to delay that game. The outcome of that game will not change in my favor and that was never the point of the delay. He will win and I have no intentions of having any game thrown to me. Ever! You have lost your mind with this whole hair splitting crusade...


*On a side note, your threads are highly entertaining. Normally a person would probably suggest that you should quit making bogus accusations/attacks against their character by constantly making a fuss about only their games. Although I won't because then the belly laughs would stop. Please keep up the good work.

As I think you understand, I have nothing against you personally. I only made those accusations because I wanted to give the CC admins a chance to set a precedent against such blatant farming, as I believed the spirit of Lack's New Year message. Also, I thought that guy threw the game by not killing you when he easily could have.

I accept their decision to allow blatant farming of cadets and cooks on difficult map settings. I won't waste any more time with accusations like that any more.

One thing that did disturb me was Lance's reasoning behind locking down the thrown game accusation:

if you look at the game chat (again), you will see that herpes is stalling, not flabio, because herpes is trying to delay losing points.

Lance, Flabio already threw the game in round 11, read the game log. Game log trumps game chat. He could have easily won but decided to let King_Herpes survive.

Isn't throwing a game letting the other guy live in 1 on 1 when you could have easily killed him?

The second he spared Herpes from certain death, he threw the game and Herpes benefited by not losing points.

If this is not against the rules, then anybody can dodge a "benefiting from thrown game" charge by convincing the opponent to spare their life and to indefinitely postpone any would be loss. Does that make sense?

[lancehoch]

As I think you understand, I have nothing against you personally.

Then why do you keep making threads about him. I locked the first thread, now I have merged this thread in with the other one.

I only made those accusations because I wanted to give the CC admins a chance to set a precedent against such blatant farming, as I believed the spirit of Lack's New Year message.

No, the message was to not farm New Recruits, people with a ? for a rank. flabio is about 300 games past being a New Recruit. Sorry, this is not what the message was.

Also, I thought that guy threw the game by not killing you when he easily could have.

He still can easily kill herpes whenever he wants, that is not the point. He did not throw the game, to throw the game you have to lose first. He is winning currently.

I accept their decision to allow blatant farming of cadets and cooks on difficult map settings.

It is not farming. It is being better at certain settings than others are and being able to beat them, although in this case, flabio was better than herpes in this game.

I won't waste any more time with accusations like that any more.

That would be helpful, but also, please post them in the right forum next time.

One thing that did disturb me was Lance's reasoning behind locking down the thrown game accusation:

if you look at the game chat (again), you will see that herpes is stalling, not flabio, because herpes is trying to delay losing points.

Lance, Flabio already threw the game in round 11, read the game log. Game log trumps game chat. He could have easily won but decided to let King_Herpes survive.

You cannot have thrown the game if you are still winning. I did read the game log. flabio has more troops on the map, has more land, and is deploying more troops per round than is herpes. He is winning the game.

Isn't throwing a game letting the other guy live in 1 on 1 when you could have easily killed him?

No, throwing a game is losing on purpose. It is an idiom equivalent to "taking a dive".

The second he spared Herpes from certain death, he threw the game and Herpes benefited by not losing points.

Again, no. flabio might be trying to gain more points by waiting for herpes to increase his score, and herpes could be trying to delay the loss in points so that he is protected from dropping to second on the scoreboard.

If this is not against the rules, then anybody can dodge a "benefiting from thrown game" charge by convincing the opponent to spare their life and to indefinitely postpone any would be loss. Does that make sense?

No.

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

In the past we've asked for the ability to restrict what ranks can join our games. This idea has been shot down. They said it won't be done. Seems you are asking for the same thing here.

This is quite different. Many of these games are private games. That means that these Cadets and Cooks did not just join by chance. They were actively recruited by Herpes because of the fact that they are Cadets/Cooks so he could make risk-free points by taking advantage of them on difficult map settings and also benefit from their increased likelihood of deadbeating.

Brand new players are one thing, but I have zero sympathy for a cadet with a couple hundred games in getting his or her clock cleaned in any game on any settings. They should know better, and the fact that they don't is probably a strong contributor to why they're still cadets.

Besides, isn't all this somewhat against the whole egalitarian "your rank doesn't reflect your skill" nature of CC that I hear so much about? Who's to say that the next top player isn't currently toiling around 1000 points as they get their shit together? Or maybe they're formerly highly ranked but have deranked while chasing medals?

I suppose the real point is this: you wouldn't give a shit if Herp was the 97th ranked player, or the 54th ranked player, or the 12th ranked player. But no, heaven forefend that the conqueror should ever play any games against anyone, 'cause no matter what, he'll never satisfy the likes of you. Playing against high ranks? He's elitist. Playing against low ranks? He's a farmer. So seriously STFU, play your own game, and let other people play theirs. Christ.
And for what it's worth, I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm just so sick and tired of all the jealously and whining. Because if there's one thing I've learned on this site, it's that the people that complain the most about scoring are the people that think it's an assault on their basic civil rights that they're not ranked higher.

I been saying this for years. Everyone always thinks you got to play 8 players/escalating/standard/seq. against high ranks only

[e_i_pi]

Game 3951426 - An obvious breach of the rules, game started after the moritorium on farming, the experienced team joined the cook/cadet game, thereby targetting in a farming manner
Game 3828147 - Game started before farming rules were in effect, rules do not apply
Game 3828146 - Game started before farming rules were in effect, rules do not apply
Game 3828145 - Has a Corporal in it, public game started by KH, stripes on his team, very few people would call this farming
Game 3839459 - Flagrant abuse of the rules, warrants a ban on both players

EDIT: Frankly, the decision made here is a joke. There is no point making up rules to combat farming if they are not going to be applied. Failing to apply them, and I assume it is because the mods don't have the balls to bust the Conquerer, simply sends out the message that the mods are ineffectual, and that farming can continue full steam ahead. Once again, a shameful result, and one that will only add fuel the ongoing fire between the players with a modicum of respect and those that increase an arbitrary number at the expense of someone else's bottom line.

[lancehoch]

The rules implemented are worded and were implemented to stop the farming of New Recruits not ranked players. There are no rules against playing against four people with almost 1300 combined games.

[e_i_pi]

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts.

[khazalid]

ei - normally im with you on pretty much whatever you post but this is b/s. that game in question is no different to the many deliberate build games started over the course of CC history and nobody batted an eyelash at any of those. flabio can end it whenever he wants to with the weight of numbers he has on the map.. and unless queen gon decides shes had enough of being a married STD and pulls a benji's widow on us then he's gonna be losing the 100pts whichever way you cut it.

[e_i_pi]

ei - normally im with you on pretty much whatever you post but this is b/s. that game in question is no different to the many deliberate build games started over the course of CC history and nobody batted an eyelash at any of those. flabio can end it whenever he wants to with the weight of numbers he has on the map.. and unless queen gon decides shes had enough of being a married STD and pulls a benji's widow on us then he's gonna be losing the 100pts whichever way you cut it.

Ugh apologies khaz, I thought this one was over. My bad. Cue flaming

[timmytuttut88]

What you guys need to understand is that made these rules so new recruits would want to stay on this website. Those cooks and cadets have already paid premium and are on the website so I don't think it hurts if King H plays them. Also, if King H loses he loses 100 points. Isn't that punishment enough? He only gains 1 or two from this anyway. When I was a cadet I wanted to play high ranks. I loved how it could mean I could gain 100 points. Not only is it not fair for higher ranks if you don't let them join lower ranked games, it's not fair for lower ranks who WANT to play higher ranks.