Conquer Club

Accused:

nick11




The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy - more to the point, specifically asking me to reveal my position in a Fog game so he can win.




Game number(s):

Game 3036299

Comments:

In the dying moments of the game, the new recruit we were playing, thorh declared himself the winner prematurely. And that's whatever - he had 90% of the territory in Rail Europe. Chances are he'd come out without any egg on his face. The man who formed the game, nick11 and the only other survivor left, sent me this PM:

SUBJ: game 3036299

Sent at: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:00 pm
From: nick11
To: Aesop Jones
Aesop,
it looks like we are both done in the game with thorp. I know we are playing in a fog game but if you'll look at the last chat from thorp you see hes rubbing it in our face. i'd really like to beat him in this game. Its up to you but if you tell me where you are, i think i can knock him down enough to over take him if he isn't holding a 3 card set.
Nick

I don't care if you're a dick; if you're a dick within the rules, that's your right. This, however, is secret diplomacy and there's no way on earth I'm going to let that stand. So this appeared to be the appropriate action.

I'm quilty but don't expect me to apologize. If someone in a game shows bad sportsmanship and rubs it in the face of the remaining players that they will win, they deserve whatever they get. I'm not offering up any excuse or apology because shit happens. I am surprised at Aesop for thinking he is some super hero or maybe he expects to receive some reward for posting this in the forum. Maybe he thinks this is crime stoppers. OK, done with the sarcasm. If you'll notice, i said in my PM "its up to you". Another player for the foe list, actually 2.

anyway, like i said no apologies shit happens!

Nick

Nobody's asking for an apology, man, and nobody's asking for a reward or a medal for Good Sportsmanship. You broke the rules, and now you're throwing a tantrum about it. And frankly, I don't like being asked to help you win a game you had the opportunity to win fairly. I don't know if there even IS a punishment for what you did. I just wanted a spade to be called a spade.

You're not a bad player - your run in the game and your rank reflect that. So why would you ask me to help you stick it to a guy completing his second game?

Most likely this will be noted for future reference. If the situation arises again, then action will be taken. Just a comment based on past threads.

Sounds good. Matter's closed in my book.

actually not for me. A secret collusion was never made. Yes I made the offer but someone is not guilty of a crime until the law is broken. What pisses me off is that someone like Aseop runs to the forum to yell that I'm a cheater when the truth is that I've never cheated in this game, never! If me and another player had made a secret agreement against him or another player and he posted it then that would be different. But he runs to the forum 2 seconds after I made the request in a PM really irritates the piss out of me. I seriously think he thinks it makes him look like some hero. I don't appreciate the fact that he ran to post what he did only to damage my character without any rule actually being broken.

The only thing i can do is add him to my foe list.

Nick

Nick. I'd think what you should have done was asked about a temporary alliance in the team chat. That isn't illegal, and you might have had a better chance at pulling off what you were attempting.

What you were asking wasn't against the rules, but the way you did it was. Don't worry about it.

Man, did Aesop drop the ball here or what?

Clearly the best thing to do in this situation was to reply to Nick's PM with a "Yeah, let's bust this punkass together man". Then in gamechat say "Hey Nick, let's cut each other some slack here, you dig me?", to which Nick would reply "Yeah dog, I feel that". Then you could have secretly shared positions all you liked, because you'd have announced an alliance of sorts in the gamechat and your collusion would no longer have been 'secret'. You could then have used your combined knowledge to crush the puny hu-man who was winning and have bigstyle points fo' real.

Don't screw it up next time, m'kay?

Actually DM, you're wrong. Rule #2 states:

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in a language that all opponents understand. Diplomacy includes, but is not limited to: proposing truces, negotiating alliances, and coordinating attacks.

This means that even discussing your moves via PM breaks the rule.

nick11, since Aesop never actually entered the alliance, HE was the one in the right, not you. You brought forward the obvious intent to break the rules, and Aesop was 100% correct in both of his actions: to deny you and to post here.

Night Strike wrote:Actually DM, you're wrong. Rule #2 states:

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in a language that all opponents understand. Diplomacy includes, but is not limited to: proposing truces, negotiating alliances, and coordinating attacks.

This means that even discussing your moves via PM breaks the rule.

nick11, since Aesop never actually entered the alliance, HE was the one in the right, not you. You brought forward the obvious intent to break the rules, and Aesop was 100% correct in both of his actions: to deny you and to post here.

yes, thanks to Twill , alliances aren't beneficial anymore, as you share information with everyone

Blake, why do you blame Twill for everything?? This is lack's site after all. Besides, I want to say it was actually Andy who proposed that wording change. All the admins work together on things, so it's not like Twill is a maverick out to bend everything to his way.

Night Strike wrote:Blake, why do you blame Twill for everything?? This is lack's site after all. Besides, I want to say it was actually Andy who proposed that wording change. All the admins work together on things, so it's not like Twill is a maverick out to bend everything to his way.

We're supposed to blame Twill for everything, it's in his job description.

and

It was Twill that posted about the discussion for the change, and posted what it had been changed to, logically, andy had nothing to do with it.

nick11 wrote:actually not for me. A secret collusion was never made. Yes I made the offer but someone is not guilty of a crime until the law is broken. What pisses me off is that someone like Aseop runs to the forum to yell that I'm a cheater when the truth is that I've never cheated in this game, never! If me and another player had made a secret agreement against him or another player and he posted it then that would be different. But he runs to the forum 2 seconds after I made the request in a PM really irritates the piss out of me. I seriously think he thinks it makes him look like some hero. I don't appreciate the fact that he ran to post what he did only to damage my character without any rule actually being broken.

The only thing i can do is add him to my foe list.

Nick

Nick, your logic escapes me. So, if you offer police officer 100 bucks to forget he ever saw you speeding, and he busted you for attempting to bribe an officer, could you tell the judge no crime was committed becuase the bribe was not accepted?

NICK11.

You broke the rule.
Final.
If I was offered a truce via PM, I would report too.

And, lancehoh, this is agaisnt the rules, he broke the rules aka COLLUSION.
He should be dealt with accordingly.
I know it;s not your duty and you are just pointing out facts.

My guess is that a small % of incidents get reported so those that are, should be enforced accordingly.

If not, then it only shows the cheaters, and potential ones that this site is easily screwed with even when caught.

And I would bet BIG $$$ that he did this before. Maybe he does it over and over.

I have no say in the matter. However, the first time an action like this is reported it usually gets noted to give the accused the benefit of the doubt.

Night Strike wrote:Actually DM, you're wrong... tedious rule-loving droning etc

And you appear to have absolutely no sense of humour.

Remember kids:

lancehoch wrote:I have no say in the matter. However, the first time an action like this is reported it usually gets noted to give the accused the benefit of the doubt.

I know you dont.
Sure, colllusion is tough to prove without hard evidence, which is probably why they only give a warning. Butt in this case, there is hard evidence so I'm hoping something will be done.

And, DM: if you think that pic is humorous, well, you are right, it was 5 years ago... or I'll give you that: the first time you posted it on this site!

I guess I need to reply since all you self appointed judges continue to convict me and for the moron (eternal icon) that sent me a PM calling me a scumbag and a cheater while he was telling me how he played CC and watched movies while he was suppose to be working ( i guess he doesn't consider that cheating his employer). But he had the balls to slander my character because he proclaims himself as some bad ass rambo cop and how bad he is and all that crap! and for the guy that compared me offering a cop a bribe? what the hell are you taliking about? I never offered the guy anything. If i had actually committed collusion then i would have a reason to bribe someone so do us all a favor and shut the hell up and stop showing your ignorance by trying to compare what i did to something totally different.
My point here is that I never committed collusion, did i have intent? yes because i was extremely pissed at the flaming attitude of this newb.

I'm done commenting about this.

nick

nick11 wrote: If me and a buddy talk about robbing a bank, does that make us guilty of committing a bank robbery?

You've never heard of "conspiracy" have you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(crime)

It's very illegal and makes you guilty, yes.

Guys, I think that is enough. We can wait for the hunters to make a decision.

SlayerQC wrote:And, DM: if you think that pic is humorous, well, you are right, it was 5 years ago...

I wasn't aiming for humour there, more for appropriateness of message and rebuke. As such your criticism is somewhat off point.


Don't worry though, you'll get the hang of this 'comprehension of simple dialogue' thing sooner or later...


PS. "Off Point" is what I say when I'm feeling too polite to say "Retarded", just so you know for next time.

This got a bit out of hand. Didn't know people got this passionate about matters.

Nick, my employment consists of talking about the music I play every 5-10 minutes or so. While I'm at work, I'm reading about the music, the artists who make it, and playing a bit of CC on the side. That's the upside of the site's structure - unless I'm playing a speed game, all I really have to do is listen, then comment, then talk about a promotion, then push a button. If ever there were a more CC-compatible career, I wouldn't know of it. (Well, maybe stuffing envelopes.)

You're doing an awful lot of fingerpointing and trying to convince yourself that this is about me being a whistleblower and a hero and getting some kind of thrill from calling you out. There's no thrill. The only reaction I had when I got that PM of yours was one of, well, SADNESS. I mean, click the Rules tab. Big black letters: Rule #2: No Secret Alliances. If you had asked me to do all of that in the game chat, I would've been happy to inform you that the chances of you breaking the wall he had around me were astronomical. Instead, you wanted to bend the rules so - now tell me if I'm reaching here - you wouldn't lose to a New Recruit.

Trust me, I didn't post this thread to be important. If I want to feel important, I go to work and do my job to the best of my ability. They pay me for that and I live relatively comfortably as a result of that. (I don't have a mansion or a private lake or anything, but it'll do.) Paying $25 a year to play a game is what I do to unwind, and the rules of that game are spelled out, and a good chunk of people follow those rules and have just as good a time.

I'm really sorry this touched off such a huge amount of rage for you, Nick. But all those fingers you're pointing at me do nothing more than draw attention to yourself. I'd let it lie. You can foe me and you'll never have to deal with me again. And I'll continue to have fun playing CC, winning some, losing some.

Dancing Mustard wrote:

Night Strike wrote:Actually DM, you're wrong... tedious rule-loving droning etc

And you appear to have absolutely no sense of humour.

Remember kids:

This guy gets it. Granted, he gets it with a six-year-old SomethingAwful image macro, but he gets it. =)

Sorry people, but you just can't knock a classic.

Dancing Mustard wrote:Man, did Aesop drop the ball here or what?

Clearly the best thing to do in this situation was to reply to Nick's PM with a "Yeah, let's bust this punkass together man". Then in gamechat say "Hey Nick, let's cut each other some slack here, you dig me?", to which Nick would reply "Yeah dog, I feel that". Then you could have secretly shared positions all you liked, because you'd have announced an alliance of sorts in the gamechat and your collusion would no longer have been 'secret'. You could then have used your combined knowledge to crush the puny hu-man who was winning and have bigstyle points fo' real.

Don't screw it up next time, m'kay?