Conquer Club

lancehoch

The accused are suspected of using their moderator authority in an arbitrary manner that detracts from the gaming experience of Conquer Club players through unwarranted and unnecessary censorship of posts he personally disagrees with

I wrote a post
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=58274&p=1488348#p1488348
in which I defended Klobber because he more than any other of Conquer Club's premier players is constantly subjected to unwarranted abuse from other players, and especially moderators. In my post I called out one moderator who appears particularly to have a personal vandetta ongoing against poor Klobber. As a Southerner I am familiar with and despise mob mentality lynchings like this, particularly when authorities (like lancehoch) who should be doing their jobs to protect people's rights instead join the mob and become one of the worst perpetrators. That has lead to many historical tragedies in my part of the country.

lancehoch understandably did not like my post because it goes against the mob mentality against Klobber he tries to foment. So, he locked my post under the cover of claiming it was off topic. Many threads go off topic. In fact if you examine lancehoch's first post to the same thread itself, nowhere in that post does he address the original poster's issue. It seems like hypocrisy in the extreme to demand others stay on topic when he himself doesn't. Clearly, lancehoch is in the habit of using his moderator power authority inconsistently and arbitrarily against posters who make statements he doesn't like.

It may be site policy that all threads can only deal with the topic raised by a thread's original poster (lancehoch claimed it was via PM anyway), but I think it's a mistake to fight human nature and the natural mode of communication in which discussions range over time by insisting that only issues raised by the original poster can be discussed in a thread. It also appears to be unenforcable in a consistent and even-handed way, as we can clearly see in this case. What results in attempting to do so is censorship, pure and simple.

The entire internet was founded on principles of freedom. Governments don't supervise internet or a site's content because they have no mandate to. Who would we trust as a censor anyway? lancehoch? Most importantly, you never know what someone who is unfettered by narrower minds might be able to contribute if things are kept open and speech free. I was making a point about the nature of the forum dialog here at CC in my last post that might have been expanded on to the enhancement of the CC experience itself. (Chances are that it wouldn't have, but who knows?)

Besides, seriously, do moderators have nothing better to do with their time than to spend it seeing if posters to a given forum are on topic, and to then suck the joy out of people's lives if the all powerful and wise moderator decides they are not? I can understand moderating for obscenity or blatantly unfair persecutory posts, but do forum nazis like lancehoch really enhance the Conquer Club experience for any of us? Do we really want to allow small minds, such as lancehoch's, censorship power of all posts, particularly when this moderator has a clear vendetta against one CC member. I submit that to do so detracts significantly from the utility of the forums for all of us. Also, if you want lancehoch censoring posts, pray that he never singles you out as a vendetta target the way he has done me, Klobber, and countless other victims who have since departed Conquer Club.

I submit that his unwarranted censorship and locking of threads he disagrees with under the pretense that they are "off topic" constitutes Moderator Abuse, that lancehoch is almost as poor at customer service as Wicked was, and that his actions detract from the Conquer Club experience for all of us. Freedom of speech is important and should not be arbitrarily and unnecessarily curtailed by the likes of lancehoch's censorship. I did try to address this directly with lancehoch privately, but got only lame self-justifying replies that were off the topic. At the very least, the moderator so named in my original post that was locked, namely lancehoch, should not have the power to censor the same post, but should have recused himself. His failure to do so, not to mention the censorship itself, is a blatant conflict of interest ethics issue and an abuse of power the likes of which Wicked would have been proud of.

I submit this in the hope of bettering the Conquer Club experience for all by making it more free and open. Down with censorship and discussion closers! Thank you for your consideration.

General Quigley

*yawn*

General Quigley wrote:lancehoch

The accused are suspected of using their moderator authority in an arbitrary manner that detracts from the gaming experience of Conquer Club players through unwarranted and unnecessary censorship of posts he personally disagrees with

I wrote a post
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=58274&p=1488348#p1488348
in which I defended Klobber because he more than any other of Conquer Club's premier players is constantly subjected to unwarranted abuse from other players, and especially moderators. In my post I called out one moderator who appears particularly to have a personal vandetta ongoing against poor Klobber. As a Southerner I am familiar with and despise mob mentality lynchings like this, particularly when authorities (like lancehoch) who should be doing their jobs to protect people's rights instead join the mob and become one of the worst perpetrators. That has lead to many historical tragedies in my part of the country.

lancehoch understandably did not like my post because it goes against the mob mentality against Klobber he tries to foment. So, he locked my post under the cover of claiming it was off topic. Many threads go off topic. In fact if you examine lancehoch's first post to the same thread itself, nowhere in that post does he address the original poster's issue. It seems like hypocrisy in the extreme to demand others stay on topic when he himself doesn't. Clearly, lancehoch is in the habit of using his moderator power authority inconsistently and arbitrarily against posters who make statements he doesn't like.

It may be site policy that all threads can only deal with the topic raised by a thread's original poster (lancehoch claimed it was via PM anyway), but I think it's a mistake to fight human nature and the natural mode of communication in which discussions range over time by insisting that only issues raised by the original poster can be discussed in a thread. It also appears to be unenforcable in a consistent and even-handed way, as we can clearly see in this case. What results in attempting to do so is censorship, pure and simple.

The entire internet was founded on principles of freedom. Governments don't supervise internet or a site's content because they have no mandate to. Who would we trust as a censor anyway? lancehoch? Most importantly, you never know what someone who is unfettered by narrower minds might be able to contribute if things are kept open and speech free. I was making a point about the nature of the forum dialog here at CC in my last post that might have been expanded on to the enhancement of the CC experience itself. (Chances are that it wouldn't have, but who knows?)

Besides, seriously, do moderators have nothing better to do with their time than to spend it seeing if posters to a given forum are on topic, and to then suck the joy out of people's lives if the all powerful and wise moderator decides they are not? I can understand moderating for obscenity or blatantly unfair persecutory posts, but do forum nazis like lancehoch really enhance the Conquer Club experience for any of us? Do we really want to allow small minds, such as lancehoch's, censorship power of all posts, particularly when this moderator has a clear vendetta against one CC member. I submit that to do so detracts significantly from the utility of the forums for all of us. Also, if you want lancehoch censoring posts, pray that he never singles you out as a vendetta target the way he has done me, Klobber, and countless other victims who have since departed Conquer Club.

I submit that his unwarranted censorship and locking of threads he disagrees with under the pretense that they are "off topic" constitutes Moderator Abuse, that lancehoch is almost as poor at customer service as Wicked was, and that his actions detract from the Conquer Club experience for all of us. Freedom of speech is important and should not be arbitrarily and unnecessarily curtailed by the likes of lancehoch's censorship. I did try to address this directly with lancehoch privately, but got only lame self-justifying replies that were off the topic. At the very least, the moderator so named in my original post that was locked, namely lancehoch, should not have the power to censor the same post, but should have recused himself. His failure to do so, not to mention the censorship itself, is a blatant conflict of interest ethics issue and an abuse of power the likes of which Wicked would have been proud of.

I submit this in the hope of bettering the Conquer Club experience for all by making it more free and open. Down with censorship and discussion closers! Thank you for your consideration.

General Quigley

Private Quigley, you got a prettier mouth than a ten dollar hooker. I am sure that you consider your concerns to be compelling, no matter how misguided you are. There is no such right known as freedom of speech here on this website. There are countless threads on this issue. This is a private forum, obviously there are restrictions as to the comments that can be posted here (e.g. Wicked (which was your issue of the day just last week or so)).

General Quigley wrote:lancehoch

The accused are suspected of using their moderator authority in an arbitrary manner that detracts from the gaming experience of Conquer Club players through unwarranted and unnecessary censorship of posts he personally disagrees with

I wrote a post
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=58274&p=1488348#p1488348
in which I defended Klobber because he more than any other of Conquer Club's premier players is constantly subjected to unwarranted abuse from other players, and especially moderators. In my post I called out one moderator who appears particularly to have a personal vandetta ongoing against poor Klobber. As a Southerner I am familiar with and despise mob mentality lynchings like this, particularly when authorities (like lancehoch) who should be doing their jobs to protect people's rights instead join the mob and become one of the worst perpetrators. That has lead to many historical tragedies in my part of the country.

lancehoch understandably did not like my post because it goes against the mob mentality against Klobber he tries to foment. So, he locked my post under the cover of claiming it was off topic. Many threads go off topic. In fact if you examine lancehoch's first post to the same thread itself, nowhere in that post does he address the original poster's issue. It seems like hypocrisy in the extreme to demand others stay on topic when he himself doesn't. Clearly, lancehoch is in the habit of using his moderator power authority inconsistently and arbitrarily against posters who make statements he doesn't like.

It may be site policy that all threads can only deal with the topic raised by a thread's original poster (lancehoch claimed it was via PM anyway), but I think it's a mistake to fight human nature and the natural mode of communication in which discussions range over time by insisting that only issues raised by the original poster can be discussed in a thread. It also appears to be unenforcable in a consistent and even-handed way, as we can clearly see in this case. What results in attempting to do so is censorship, pure and simple.

The entire internet was founded on principles of freedom. Governments don't supervise internet or a site's content because they have no mandate to. Who would we trust as a censor anyway? lancehoch? Most importantly, you never know what someone who is unfettered by narrower minds might be able to contribute if things are kept open and speech free. I was making a point about the nature of the forum dialog here at CC in my last post that might have been expanded on to the enhancement of the CC experience itself. (Chances are that it wouldn't have, but who knows?)

Besides, seriously, do moderators have nothing better to do with their time than to spend it seeing if posters to a given forum are on topic, and to then suck the joy out of people's lives if the all powerful and wise moderator decides they are not? I can understand moderating for obscenity or blatantly unfair persecutory posts, but do forum nazis like lancehoch really enhance the Conquer Club experience for any of us? Do we really want to allow small minds, such as lancehoch's, censorship power of all posts, particularly when this moderator has a clear vendetta against one CC member. I submit that to do so detracts significantly from the utility of the forums for all of us. Also, if you want lancehoch censoring posts, pray that he never singles you out as a vendetta target the way he has done me, Klobber, and countless other victims who have since departed Conquer Club.

I submit that his unwarranted censorship and locking of threads he disagrees with under the pretense that they are "off topic" constitutes Moderator Abuse, that lancehoch is almost as poor at customer service as Wicked was, and that his actions detract from the Conquer Club experience for all of us. Freedom of speech is important and should not be arbitrarily and unnecessarily curtailed by the likes of lancehoch's censorship. I did try to address this directly with lancehoch privately, but got only lame self-justifying replies that were off the topic. At the very least, the moderator so named in my original post that was locked, namely lancehoch, should not have the power to censor the same post, but should have recused himself. His failure to do so, not to mention the censorship itself, is a blatant conflict of interest ethics issue and an abuse of power the likes of which Wicked would have been proud of.

I submit this in the hope of bettering the Conquer Club experience for all by making it more free and open. Down with censorship and discussion closers! Thank you for your consideration.

General Quigley

I might have spent more time reading your post if it didn't involve KLOBBER...
I see no clue of how lancehoch was abusing his authority...

I am curious if Klobber and Quigley know each other in real life, and this is an articulate friend used to blow additional smoke.

I was wondering how long it would take before another mod was chosen as a focus of unwarranted venting. Scary how there has to always be a scapegoat. Why can't we all just get along?

Remember Gen. Quigley, we're here to have fun and play world domination, with some forums chit-chat on the side. If you work with Lance, and the other volunteer Mods, it'll make everyone's life more fun.


--Andy

lmao - I love the freedom on the internet bullshit. That's fricken hilarious, although completely unfounded. Sounds to me like the kid it making stuff up to merely support his arguments. You know how many governments censor things on the internet? You should also know each site has the ability to censor whatever it wants on its site...

Discerning people know none of you could ever hope to beat Klobber where it counts -- on a map. So go ahead and be another mindless member of the mob that keeps bashing Klobber in the forums with Conquer Club management's blessing and even participation. You continue a proud legacy of lynch mobs everywhere, only instead of hiding behind white cone hats and robes, you all do your burning, intimidation, and hanging of your innocent betters from behind your anonymous CC names. The degree of wrong and harm may be different, but the principle is the same.

"With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will certainly be lost."
-Wm. Lloyd Garrison-

Clearly, I have been wasting my time here. Censorship by lancehoch will continue if no one else sees it as wrong and no one else speaks up. "Man has only those rights he can defend." If I am the only one fighting for the right to be heard here at Conquer Club, and lose to tyrants like lancehoch, then no one else will have that right either. It will only be a privelege, granted and rescinded at the tyrant's whim.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire (attributed)

General Quigley

General Quigley wrote:Discerning people know none of you could ever hope to beat Klobber where it counts -- on a map. So go ahead and be another mindless member of the mob that keeps bashing Klobber in the forums with Conquer Club management's blessing and even participation. You continue a proud legacy of lynch mobs everywhere, only instead of hiding behind white cone hats and robes, you all do your burning, intimidation, and hanging of your innocent betters from behind your anonymous CC names. The degree of wrong and harm may be different, but the principle is the same.

"With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will certainly be lost."
-Wm. Lloyd Garrison-

Clearly, I have been wasting my time here. Censorship by lancehoch will continue if no one else sees it as wrong and no one else speaks up. "Man has only those rights he can defend." If I am the only one fighting for the right to be heard here at Conquer Club, and lose to tyrants like lancehoch, then no one else will have that right either. It will only be a privelege, granted and rescinded at the tyrant's whim.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire (attributed)

General Quigley

It's not us that's avoiding him, it's him that's avoiding us. Dude, he puts almost every non-New Recruit on his foe list (yes, I'm pretty sure he has cooks as foes too). How do we know if we can beat him when he's scared of us?

New postby General Quigley on Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:07 pm

Discerning people know none of you could ever hope to beat Klobber where it counts -- on a map.

As Joodoo stated, as soon as anyone but a new recruit joins a game with Klobber, the usual action by Klobber is to drop the game and then foe the joining player. It personally happened to a number of people. See this link: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=49762&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p1286988.

As much as Klobber and G.Q. crave attention, there is one simple fact: Klobber is good at what he does, however that does not translate to being good at conquerclub, nor is it honorable to to claim, or support claims, that beating a extremely high number of raw recruits by their deadbeating is a true measure of cc ability.

Intriguing to me is that he states lancehoch detracts from the gaming experience here... yet... the forums have nothing to do with the gaming experience... that's when I stopped reading.

Lance is alright Quiggles.

In fact the Mods have very much supported Klobber in his peculiar and often amusing little quest for .. for .. ummm Klobbiness!

I should know.. he used them against me when he was trolling me. Lance (and Penguin) Handled the situation pretty fairly and irritatingly even-handedly, even when i felt completely affronted by the manipulation of the system! (right on brother!)

so really the system works in the main (It does not seem fair when the steam of injustice clouds ones vision) but they are, in the main, good chaps trying to maintain neutrality.
If you personalise and you push, their need for individual protection will countermand their goal of objectivity! Unfortunately you and Klobby probably push them beyond that point..

Fair enough. I have on other occasions been favorably impressed by lance's calmness and evenhandedness. I think I became so upset here because I simply despise censors, particularly censors of ideas, and this is what lance did, whatever weak justification he dreamed up to account for his actions. I was also accused of trolling. Who among us appreciates having his sincerity questioned, or otherwise called a liar?

My antipathy towards censors stems not only from my deepest convictions regarding the value and even sanctity of freedom of speech, but from my professional life as well. I have been a middle school librarian and have had to tolerate parent and school board censors demanding I remove completely harmless books and classics from my shelves. (See this website for an amusing list of books kids should not read http://title.forbiddenlibrary.com/). I am a high school English teacher now, and struggle with getting students to take an interest in a literature curriculum I am forced to teach that is carefully watered down to avoid all possible controversy. Real literature is powerful and controversial. The censorship educators teach under thus forces us to present a skewed view downwards of literature's possibilities. As a result, some kids walk away from English courses convinced literature is boring, never realizing the incredible power the well-written (which is normally controversial) word can have. Censorship of controversial ideas, wherever it takes place (including even a Conquer Club forum) harms. It's hard to imagine any adequate justification for it, though it was amusing to read Lancehoch's lame attempt (via PM) at it.

As an example of censorship, here is my favorite poem, one I would never dare show to any high school student. I love it for the juxtaposition of scenes and moods, the poet's sense of timing, and most of all for capturing an aspect of the South's history. (Warning: the ideas contained are controversial and won't be appreciated by most fellow Southerners):

Strange Fruit

Southern trees bear strange fruit,
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root,
Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze,
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.

Pastoral scene of the gallant south,
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth,
Scent of magnolias, sweet and fresh,
Then the sudden smell of burning flesh.

Here is fruit for the crows to pluck,
For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck,
For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop,
Here is a strange and bitter crop.

Lewis Allen (1890 – 1954)

Awesome lecture - I'm sure everyone was deeply moved on the relevance of your post.

To me you sound nothing more than an arrogant person trying to show some form of self-righteousness when in reality you sound like one of the people that starts up controversy over minute things that everyone else doesn't care about.

This is coming from an admin on one site, and a moderator on another. It's a bitch to deal with everyone's whining, especially when most of the work performed is volunteer work. Suck it up.

FabledIntegral wrote:Awesome lecture - I'm sure everyone was deeply moved on the relevance of your post.

To me you sound nothing more than an arrogant person trying to show some form of self-righteousness when in reality you sound like one of the people that starts up controversy over minute things that everyone else doesn't care about.

This is coming from an admin on one site, and a moderator on another. It's a bitch to deal with everyone's whining, especially when most of the work performed is volunteer work. Suck it up.

To be an admin, I am convinced, takes a person of true arrogance, one who thinks he is so much better than his peers that he ought to have some divine right to sit in judgement of them. It is easy for most of the rest of us lesser beings to see that admins' real reasons for doing their "work" is merely to prop up their deservedly weak egos all the while gratuitously claiming (as you just did) that they do it caringly and thanklessly, often even heroically, out of love for humanity all to selflessly bless us with the much needed services they provide. Seldom have I seen a class of people more capable of self-delusion than site admins and moderators. Thank you for your post, which affirms in strong terms my convictions regarding what really motivates moderator/admins.

Sorry Gen. Quigley, I had to lock this for my Ego.


--Andy