Paul Wall [Busted] and MS121979 [Cleared]

[hoops22]

First off. I don't know what is considered cheating or Abuse on the site however when things appear strange I want to get a better understanding from those that play more often to find out the facts about what is considered acceptable and what isn't.

In game 54206 two players (Paul Wall and MS121979) seem to be playing with the same style and technique, so I decided to reviewed a few of there games and was surprised to find that both of the players appear in a lot of games together, nothing strange really. However, I noticed that in all the games involving these two players Paul Wall finished first and MS121979 finished second, again a little strange but not unheard of. Then I noticed that in the list of players they were listed one after another, again strange, but not unhead of. Lastly I decided to review the details of a couple of games and found what I think are more significant patterns / relationships. Now I could make some wild statements about what I've found, but I won't, I will let those that do the investigation, complete there actions before making a full judgement, however If assistance is required, I am available!

The following are the game

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=23530
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=27359
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=27396
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=29836
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=38124
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=54206

Again I don't know what is and isn't considered "cheating" and will let those that have more experience and practice decide.

I was introduced to the site by SPUD911 and dragmmth (co-workers) and we've really enjoyed playing eachother at first and now the rest of the players!. Thanks hoops22

[strike wolf]

Could be multis but it looks like it's more likely friends. Though I did see some games with oddly close turn times.

[ZawBanjito]

Paul Wall was busted for multi-ing before, I believe, waaaaaay back when. Hell, he may have been the first multi ever busted. My memory on this is vague...

[wicked]

Yes, Paul Wall has been busted before.

[ZawBanjito]

Hahaha, yeah. Good memories.

[strike wolf]

ahh..so maybe he's just more cautious about his multi-accounting now.

[hoops22]

A quick update in my on going game

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=54206
MS121979 has gotten Oceania and has begun to build his forces right next to Paul Wall. Kinda stange give the Pau Wall has 29 armies and MS had 4 armies there. I need a monitor or other senior players to continually review this game on an ongoing basis. There is no doubt in my mind what is going on, I will explain if people desire.

[hoops22]

Can I ask who added the 'Busted' and 'Cleared' comments? and how everything was determined.? Who did the investigating? and what is next, does Paul Wall get suspended or just warned? It is his second time, is it not?

[Haydena]

I think it's Lack, Andy and Twill that deal with multi accounts and change the titles of the threads accordingly. Not sure about the warnings and so on, they can probably clarify.

[chixie88]

I'm curious about how one person can be cleared and the other busted.

[AndyDufresne]

Paul Wall was busted a while ago for multiple accounts, while MS121979 was cleared of being a multi of his and having any other accounts.


--Andy

[chixie88]

Oh thanks for clearing that up for me.

[hoops22]

Andy,

I understand that Paul was busted back a while ago in Feb/March (thanks Wicked), however what about the recent games, since May it appears, PaulWall has been using MS121919 as a multi! . To recap: MS121719 has played 7 standard individual games, out of those PaulWall has played in 5 of those same games and in each one of the PaulWall has won and in four of those games MS121719 has finished 2nd!, the only one he didn't PaulWall eliminated him and took a set of cards which he used to take out the last player. In all the games involving these players they join the games right after each other. I can see this happening however 5 times out of 7 games seems strange.

Now I've looked at a few of MS121719 games closely and have found things that seem a little wierd. I will recap just a few moves results from one game (#27396) played May 29,06


Round 1- 16 seconds between moves
2006-05-27 19:51:39 - MS121979 fortified Siam with 2 armies from China
2006-05-27 19:51:55 - Paul Wall receives 3 armies for 8 territories

Round 2 - 2:27 seconds between moves
2006-05-28 17:29:50 - MS121979 fortified China with 2 armies from Mongolia
2006-05-28 17:32:17 - Paul Wall receives 3 armies for 8 territories

Round 3 - 21 seconds between moves
2006-05-29 17:56:48 - MS121979 fortified Siam with 2 armies from China
2006-05-29 17:57:09 - Paul Wall receives 3 armies for 9 territories

Round 4 - 23 seconds between moves
2006-05-30 14:25:17 - MS121979 fortified Central America with 2 armies from Western United States
2006-05-30 14:25:40 - Paul Wall receives 3 armies for 10 territories

Round 5 - 36 seconds between moves
2006-05-30 20:14:13 - MS121979 fortified Brazil with 2 armies from Venezuela
2006-05-30 20:14:49 - Paul Wall receives 3 armies for 9 territories

Round 6 - 1:15 between moves
2006-05-31 19:05:00 - MS121979 fortified Venezuela with 1 armies from Brazil
2006-05-31 19:06:15 - Paul Wall receives 3 armies for 9 territories

Round 7 -- 53 seconds between moves2
006-06-01 12:23:04 - MS121979 fortified Central America with 9 armies from Venezuela
2006-06-01 12:23:57 - Paul Wall receives 3 armies for holding Africa

Round 8 - 9 hours 19 min and 15 seconds?
2006-06-01 18:41:47 - MS121979 fortified Central America with 4 armies from Eastern United States
2006-06-02 04:00:22 - Paul Wall receives 3 armies for holding Africa

Round 9 - 4 minutes 16 seconds
2006-06-02 19:26:09 - MS121979 fortified Brazil with 1 armies from Argentina
2006-06-02 19:30:25 - Paul Wall receives 3 armies for holding Africa

Round 10 - 1 minues 53 seconds
2006-06-03 13:51:27 - MS121979 fortified Quebec with 1 armies from Eastern United States
2006-06-03 13:53:20 - Paul Wall receives 3 armies for holding Africa

Rounds 11, 12, 13.... most turns between the two players are completed within 5 minutes.


Either the same individual is making this moves or the two players are working together, and given the results of the two players, I believe they are multi not teammates.In the 5 games they have played, MS121979 has lost a total of 64 points. Paul Wall has gained 218.

This is a quick review of time increments between players ending and starting the moves for the first 10 moves of this game, I have looked at the time increment in other games and have found that more than not that the time between these two players making moves is less than 10 minutes. I could see if this occured once or twice however multiple times in multiple games involving the same two players with the same outcome in everygame they play? I am only recaping time increments here, and haven't talked about "HOW" the games were actually played. If you replay the games or look at how things happen, everything becomes apparent. Heck, just look at my current game with these two and you'll see what I mean.

Andy, I have read many of your investigations and have found you to be very good and professional in what you do, how you do it and the conclusions you draw. Could you please take a look (or second look) at MS121979 game play and help me understand how these two players aren't mulit? I love the site, respect many of the players, will continue to play no matter the result, and will add MS and PaulWall to my ignore list. Thank you to everyone for there assistance. hoops22

[hoops22]

is Andy out there?