Conquer Club

Accused: josko.ri

The accused are suspected of:
Throwing a game, with no intention of winning.


Game number(s):

Game 20098610

Comments:
So before this occurs in any more games, I wanted to go ahead and report it. According to the chat:

2020-06-24 11:14:23 - swimmerdude99: Don't know if you had many troops, but when I took the turn, you had 1's josko
2020-06-24 11:49:50 - josko.ri: swimmerdude i spent troops to take that bonus which you took from me therefore i retaliated to you. whoever takes the new bonus from me, i will retaliate again so you cannot say that you were not warned
2020-06-24 11:53:42 - josko.ri: you were greedy to take new bonus from me therefore you lost the old one
2020-06-25 14:59:12 - swimmerdude99: Its funny that you report people for playing to win a tournament, and clearly you just suicided in a very odd fashion
2020-06-25 14:59:33 - swimmerdude99: I know you are playing to make sure someone from my tribe does not win, but don't think I'm not aware. You aren't that silly
2020-06-25 14:59:39 - swimmerdude99: You left a 1 on a bonus, who wouldn't take it?

I know in many other games I've played (usually in escalating or stacking games), I might see a territory open that is a 1 on a bonus, it seems peculiar, but in the effort to win and gain leverage, I choose to take it as its very open in a big thing to gain. In this particular game, I came to the turn, saw that a bonus josko had clearly taken the round before, was now open with 1s on them. To make sure he knew I hadn't suicided a stack or anything like that, I let him know in chat that they were 1s by the time I took my turn. His response was to attack my stack of 6 on a similar bonus putting himself down to 10 troops while the rest of us have 20+. This took me from being close to the lead to below yellow.

To me, his play is clearly not to win the game, but simply take out a competitor who poses a threat to both a tournament win, and tribe scores, as my tribe is ranked second to his. This attack pretty clearly is not aimed at winning. Especially as someone who reports others for this sort of thing, I find it very two-faced that he would do this. Destroying that many of his own troops was not in his best interest, and he is a good enough player to know that (at least from what I know of him). Even in the event that his attacking that bonus left him weak, suiciding will not make him any stronger or give him a better chance. His goal seems to be to knock out a competitor that isn't in his best interest to have wins.

Josko I believe is in the right 100%. The conduct of play is different in tournaments where there is a team, tribe, or clan element involved. For example, if I was in a team game with a partner and he had 4 cards and we were close to each other, he may fort me all his guys to allow me to take him and his cards out. We work together. Adding to the previous thought, I might have elected not to attack him but to protect him and attack another player. By doing this you are not throwing a game or doing anything in violation of the rules because you are doing what is best for your team, clan, or tribe. This tournament is of that nature. If you are not doing well, you should do all you can to help a fellow tribe or clan member win.

If this is happening in non-tribe, non-clan, or non-tournament games, than I would cry foul. What so many fail to see, especially in tournament games, is that there is a strategy to winning a tournament beyond each individual game. If it is a final round of a tournament and 6 players remain and say 9 games are sent out and you have 3 wins, it is in your best interest to be sure a player with no wins takes a game versus someone who has two wins and thus you potentially lose the tournament. So in this case, ensuring that result is not a foul, it is great play and strategy.

Given the game in question it is clan driven and a tournament so of course you want to work with clan members, not against them. These games should play almost like true team games. Josko has two thumbs up for smart play and for being a good clan/team member.

this is stupid and 1 of a few reasons why i'm probably leaving

iAmCaffeine wrote:this is stupid and 1 of a few reasons why i'm probably leaving

cya...*waves*

DBandit70 wrote:Josko I believe is in the right 100%. The conduct of play is different in tournaments where there is a team, tribe, or clan element involved. For example, if I was in a team game with a partner and he had 4 cards and we were close to each other, he may fort me all his guys to allow me to take him and his cards out. We work together. Adding to the previous thought, I might have elected not to attack him but to protect him and attack another player. By doing this you are not throwing a game or doing anything in violation of the rules because you are doing what is best for your team, clan, or tribe. This tournament is of that nature. If you are not doing well, you should do all you can to help a fellow tribe or clan member win.

If this is happening in non-tribe, non-clan, or non-tournament games, than I would cry foul. What so many fail to see, especially in tournament games, is that there is a strategy to winning a tournament beyond each individual game. If it is a final round of a tournament and 6 players remain and say 9 games are sent out and you have 3 wins, it is in your best interest to be sure a player with no wins takes a game versus someone who has two wins and thus you potentially lose the tournament. So in this case, ensuring that result is not a foul, it is great play and strategy.

Given the game in question it is clan driven and a tournament so of course you want to work with clan members, not against them. These games should play almost like true team games. Josko has two thumbs up for smart play and for being a good clan/team member.

Josko has been warned over and over again. If he is in a tribe game and he can't win, he will attack the tribe who is most in competition of the series title. It has been ruled that this kind of game throwing is against the rules and the admins wee very specific about it.

aad0906 wrote:
Josko has been warned over and over again. If he is in a tribe game and he can't win, he will attack the tribe who is most in competition of the series title. It has been ruled that this kind of game throwing is against the rules and the admins wee very specific about it.

ridiculous. what should a player do once it is evident that they cannot win the game but other, larger goals exist? stop trying to tell people when and who they can attack. or maybe give us a list of the pre-approved reasons and situations for attacking.

DBandit70 wrote:Josko I believe is in the right 100%. The conduct of play is different in tournaments where there is a team, tribe, or clan element involved. For example, if I was in a team game with a partner and he had 4 cards and we were close to each other, he may fort me all his guys to allow me to take him and his cards out. We work together. Adding to the previous thought, I might have elected not to attack him but to protect him and attack another player. By doing this you are not throwing a game or doing anything in violation of the rules because you are doing what is best for your team, clan, or tribe. This tournament is of that nature. If you are not doing well, you should do all you can to help a fellow tribe or clan member win.

If this is happening in non-tribe, non-clan, or non-tournament games, than I would cry foul. What so many fail to see, especially in tournament games, is that there is a strategy to winning a tournament beyond each individual game. If it is a final round of a tournament and 6 players remain and say 9 games are sent out and you have 3 wins, it is in your best interest to be sure a player with no wins takes a game versus someone who has two wins and thus you potentially lose the tournament. So in this case, ensuring that result is not a foul, it is great play and strategy.

Given the game in question it is clan driven and a tournament so of course you want to work with clan members, not against them. These games should play almost like true team games. Josko has two thumbs up for smart play and for being a good clan/team member.

This is exactly why I reported it. It has been said by team members that this is against the rules. If I remember correctly he has reported people for doing so as well, that's the main reason I brought it up. I've seen it said that exactly what you are describing is against the rules. I understand how there is something bigger at hand, but to my knowledge is against the rules. I 100% agree he did it precisely for what you mention.

In the game in question, players usually play just to take one region for card. However, swimmerdude additionally took one more region breaking my bonus, why is greedy move from him, so I retaliated to him.

When I played my turn, swimmerdude had deploy of 5 (because he had taken one from me), other two players had deploy of 4 and I had deploy of 3. As the game will probably last for about 10 rounds, my hope to win was not to leave swimmerdude to have +2 deploy compared to me (which is +20 in 10 rounds) but instead to level deploy among all four players so that everyone has equal deploy of 4.

For that I needed to kill his stack of 6, so killing 6 for gaining +1 over 10 rounds (for gaining +10) is worth investment in my opinion. Additionally to my gain of +1, my move reduced - 1 per turn from the player who had the biggest deploy, so my benefit was double, gain for me and loss for the game leader.

Above I explained how I benefited with the move but in addition my move was also retaliation, he broke my bonus and I broke his bonus in return therefore he got back from me what he asked for. Retaliation is different than suicide because retaliation is part of diplomacy.

Therefore, my move has nothing to do with our Tribe membership or with suiciding. Swimmerdude simply got my retaliation for what he had greedily attacked me and also my move was oriented towards my winning of the game by leveling deploy of all players to 4 instead of leaving the strongest player swimmerdude with 5 deploy while I have 3 deploy.

Swimmerdude is just a crybaby who thinks he is allowed to do what he wants and break bonuses of whoever he wants but when they retaliate to him in similar fashion then he fills spurious report.

Maybe I can also accuse him that he broke my bonus having our Tribal competition in mind as a hidden goal, when he is so much focused into it. Because he freely broke my bonus even when I was not leader killing 2 of my troops, but the turn later he did not break Bonus of yellow guarded by 3 troops, and yellow is leader and has the biggest deploy in the game. So swimmerdude breaks bonuses of his opponent Tribe member but he is not consistent in breaking bonuses of other players in similar circumstances even when the other player is the game leader.

Just to add one fact to my defense.

I attacked swimmerdude bonus with 4,4,6vs6 attack. Therefore if I got average 6-6 dice, I would have 5 troops left to hold and protect my bonus. However I got below average 6-9 dice and that is why I almost didn't have leftovers after the attack. So my being with so low troops in this moment is due to having bad dice in my attack, not due to other reasons.

aad0906 wrote:

DBandit70 wrote:Josko I believe is in the right 100%. The conduct of play is different in tournaments where there is a team, tribe, or clan element involved. For example, if I was in a team game with a partner and he had 4 cards and we were close to each other, he may fort me all his guys to allow me to take him and his cards out. We work together. Adding to the previous thought, I might have elected not to attack him but to protect him and attack another player. By doing this you are not throwing a game or doing anything in violation of the rules because you are doing what is best for your team, clan, or tribe. This tournament is of that nature. If you are not doing well, you should do all you can to help a fellow tribe or clan member win.

If this is happening in non-tribe, non-clan, or non-tournament games, than I would cry foul. What so many fail to see, especially in tournament games, is that there is a strategy to winning a tournament beyond each individual game. If it is a final round of a tournament and 6 players remain and say 9 games are sent out and you have 3 wins, it is in your best interest to be sure a player with no wins takes a game versus someone who has two wins and thus you potentially lose the tournament. So in this case, ensuring that result is not a foul, it is great play and strategy.

Given the game in question it is clan driven and a tournament so of course you want to work with clan members, not against them. These games should play almost like true team games. Josko has two thumbs up for smart play and for being a good clan/team member.

Josko has been warned over and over again. If he is in a tribe game and he can't win, he will attack the tribe who is most in competition of the series title. It has been ruled that this kind of game throwing is against the rules and the admins wee very specific about it.

Don't tell lie facts. I have been warned only once (not over and over again) and my warning had nothing to do with Tribes. Get your facts straight before publicly lie about someone.

Additionally, in the game in question there is also player kizkiz, member of RISE Tribe. In the Olympics scoreboard FBRD and RISE Tribes are keep exchanging on second place so they are both competitors with my Tribe for winning the Tribal contest. Therefore, if I had the Tribal contest in mind when playing my turn then I would attack both swimerdude and kizkiz and gifted the game to DBandit70. But I did not attack kizkiz at all.

https://www.conquerclub.com/player.php? ... d=20098611

Additionally, take a look at the tournament scoreboard above. swimmerdude is last placed with 0 wins and there is no score resets, so realistically which are his chances to earn something for his Tribe that he is accusing me to "prevent" him from doing?

It is funny how obviously spurious report this one is with sole intention to taint my name. I am preventing someone with 0/6 wins from winning the tournament? LOL. Swimmerdude prevented himself from winning the tournament by badly playing first 6 games (maybe he unnecesary attacked other players' bonuses like he did it to me ) and producing such a great result of 0/6 wins. and then I am guilty for his fail to win the tournament? LOL.

On the other hand, kizkiz and me are in the race for medals with 3 wins each. If I want to "prevent" someone from winning the game that should obviously be kizkiz, not swimmerdude, because he is in race versus me for earning of some medals in the tournament. But of course I am not preventing anybody from anything. I am just playing strategy which I think increases my own chances of winning every game.

imagine being this guy at the bottom and saying someone is game throwing to stop his tribe winning

iAmCaffeine wrote:

imagine being this guy at the bottom and saying someone is game throwing to stop his tribe winning

Good joke LOL

josko.ri wrote:Swimmerdude is just a crybaby who thinks he is allowed to do what he wants and break bonuses of whoever he wants but when they retaliate to him in similar fashion then he fills spurious report.

Its interesting you stoop to a personal attack. Always respected you, but you have been losing that of late. If you re-read the initial post you will see why I reported it. If I'm wrong, and you have not held others to these rules, then I'm out of line. I'm not a crybaby, but you've done a good job of attempting to derail the thread. I'm not planning to argue, just figured I'd report what seemed like suspicious activity from me. I kinda feel sorry you feel personally attacked and need to act this way. Just like you are the one to make a play that puts you clearly on the bottom of the game, I feel pretty rational in pointing this out, in the same way I think my play was pretty rational

josko.ri wrote:It is funny how obviously spurious report this one is with sole intention to taint my name. I am preventing someone with 0/6 wins from winning the tournament? LOL. Swimmerdude prevented himself from winning the tournament by badly playing first 6 games (maybe he unnecesary attacked other players' bonuses like he did it to me ) and producing such a great result of 0/6 wins. and then I am guilty for his fail to win the tournament? LOL.

If my report were spurious I would act much more like a jack-ass, with name calling, getting emotional and finding more and more ways to throw you under the bus than just a single one I experienced. As that is not my intention, I didn't go searching for any other instance that could possibly count to pad the resumé, I posted on your wall informing you because I didn't want it to seem spurious and wanted to be a step above. Your immediate assumption that I strongly dislike you and want you gone is an incredible play to victim mentality. Again, I didn't have an issue with you, I always respected you. Your responses here, however paint an interesting picture of you.

swimmerdude99 wrote:

josko.ri wrote:Swimmerdude is just a crybaby who thinks he is allowed to do what he wants and break bonuses of whoever he wants but when they retaliate to him in similar fashion then he fills spurious report.

Its interesting you stoop to a personal attack. Always respected you, but you have been losing that of late. If you re-read the initial post you will see why I reported it. If I'm wrong, and you have not held others to these rules, then I'm out of line. I'm not a crybaby, but you've done a good job of attempting to derail the thread. I'm not planning to argue, just figured I'd report what seemed like suspicious activity from me. I kinda feel sorry you feel personally attacked and need to act this way. Just like you are the one to make a play that puts you clearly on the bottom of the game, I feel pretty rational in pointing this out, in the same way I think my play was pretty rational

josko.ri wrote:It is funny how obviously spurious report this one is with sole intention to taint my name. I am preventing someone with 0/6 wins from winning the tournament? LOL. Swimmerdude prevented himself from winning the tournament by badly playing first 6 games (maybe he unnecesary attacked other players' bonuses like he did it to me ) and producing such a great result of 0/6 wins. and then I am guilty for his fail to win the tournament? LOL.

If my report were spurious I would act much more like a jack-ass, with name calling, getting emotional and finding more and more ways to throw you under the bus than just a single one I experienced. As that is not my intention, I didn't go searching for any other instance that could possibly count to pad the resumé, I posted on your wall informing you because I didn't want it to seem spurious and wanted to be a step above. Your immediate assumption that I strongly dislike you and want you gone is an incredible play to victim mentality. Again, I didn't have an issue with you, I always respected you. Your responses here, however paint an interesting picture of you.

why didnt you reply to any of my relevant counter-arguments but just to trivial posts trying to make this discussion off-topic?

to repeat which counter arguments:

1.

josko.ri wrote:When I played my turn, swimmerdude had deploy of 5 (because he had taken one from me), other two players had deploy of 4 and I had deploy of 3. As the game will probably last for about 10 rounds, my hope to win was not to leave swimmerdude to have +2 deploy compared to me (which is +20 in 10 rounds) but instead to level deploy among all four players so that everyone has equal deploy of 4.

2. you have anyway no reasonable shot at winning this tournament, so my attack to you is not preventing you from anything which you are not already prevented. You are at 0 wins from 6 games, which is 3 wins further away from Bronze medal.

3. the other player from our game kizkiz is having 3 wins in the tournament and he is member of RISE who is also at race for Tribal contest the same as your Tribe. If I have any intention to prevent someone from winning (which I dont have of course because I play for my own win) then it should definitely be kizkiz who I should prevent from winning, not you.

To not take up a ton of space. I'm not here to argue because I put up my suspicions, you responded with your relevant material and I was moving on and just awaiting the decision. Arguing against how you think my attack at 2 1s was worth your attack 4,4,6v6 to me makes sense (thus why I am reporting), we clearly aren't going to agree, and I don't care to reiterate the same thing over and over. You bring up a good point that I'm not in the driving seat in the tournament, you then continued to respond more times including personal attacks which makes me think even more you DID do it for the reasons I stated. You have pretty clearly made me an enemy of yours that you hold in low esteem.

Feel free to add more info, I have no problem with you doing so. That would be why I informed you of it. If you can prove that you did it as a logical move and not one to throw the game, then so be it.

swimmerdude99 wrote:If you can prove that you did it as a logical move and not one to throw the game, then so be it.

Yes, I can prove it, here is my proof:

josko.ri wrote:When I played my turn, swimmerdude had deploy of 5 (because he had taken one from me), other two players had deploy of 4 and I had deploy of 3. As the game will probably last for about 10 rounds, my hope to win was not to leave swimmerdude to have +2 deploy compared to me (which is +20 in 10 rounds) but instead to level deploy among all four players so that everyone has equal deploy of 4.

Swimmerdude,

I am very confused. Why would Josko throw the game to prevent you from winning? You are in last place of the tournament and both DBandit and Kizkiz have a higher chance to win the tournament. Kizkiz is actually tied for second place with Josko. (and many others) If Josko throws the game to take you out wouldn't that hurt his chances in the tournament as he'd increase Kizkiz chance to win the game and decrease his own chance?

I see no possible motivation for Josko to intentionally throw the game to prevent your win.

trash, just utter trash...

I think after having a chance to look back at some of the replies here, I think from the perspective of tournament throwing, this is probably not the case. While I was thinking mostly from a tribe perspective he might make a silly move based off of the benefits it would give his tribe were I not to win. I think the point you all bring up (josko, caff and caymen) about me being in last does indicate it was not a ploy strictly for the tournament. Even if I happen to win all 6, it would still be a stretch for me to win.

I guess it is just a confusing move that josko weighed and saw benefit in. A move I would have never wasted all my troops on But perhaps that's why he's tied for second in the tournament and not me. Just seemed a bit fishy to make a silly move like that, to me.

Nut Shot Scott wrote:

aad0906 wrote:
Josko has been warned over and over again. If he is in a tribe game and he can't win, he will attack the tribe who is most in competition of the series title. It has been ruled that this kind of game throwing is against the rules and the admins wee very specific about it.

ridiculous. what should a player do once it is evident that they cannot win the game but other, larger goals exist? stop trying to tell people when and who they can attack. or maybe give us a list of the pre-approved reasons and situations for attacking.

I didn't make the rules, complain in General Discussion.

riskllama wrote:

iAmCaffeine wrote:this is stupid and 1 of a few reasons why i'm probably leaving

cya...*waves*

Llama and I will escort you out you crybaby whining little beeoitch.

swimmerdude99 wrote:I think after having a chance to look back at some of the replies here, I think from the perspective of tournament throwing, this is probably not the case.

This is I guess enough statement to move on and be the case resolved as Cleared.