Conquer Club

Accused:

betiko
fairman

The accused are suspected of:

Other: Manipulating Monthly Scoreboard points

Game number(s):
Game 17022225 started 29 Nov, betiko won 20 points on 29 Nov
Game 17022229 started 29 Nov, betiko won 20 points on 29 Nov
Game 17022226 started 29 Nov, betiko won 18 points on 30 Nov
Game 17024412 started 29 Nov, betiko won 19 points on 30 Nov
Game 17024413 started 29 Nov, betiko won 19 points on 30 Nov
Game 17024414 started 29 Nov, betiko won 20 points on 29 Nov
Game 17024416 started 29 Nov, betiko won 19 points on 30 Nov
Game 17022228 fairman will win but in December, still ongoing game because betiko played slow turns when he saw that he will lose.
Game 17022227 fairman will win but in December, still ongoing game because betiko played slow turns when he saw that he will lose.
Game 17024415 fairman won but on Dec 1 because betiko played slow turns when he saw that he will lose.

Furthermore, Game 17022226, Game 17022228 Started at the same time. However, Game 17022226 with 14 rounds ended on Nov 30 while Game 17022228 is currently in round 8 and still ongoing. That is because Game 17022226 was won by betiko and Game 17022228 will be won by fairman, so they made ending date of Game 17022228 to be in December.

In addition:

Game 17027064 betiko asked his opponent to wait with playing his winning turn until December
Game 17025818 betiko asked his opponent to wait with playing his winning turn until December. Furthermore, when the opponent did not listen him and played his turn within November, betiko complained to him

Comments:
From games above, we can see that betiko won in total 135 points from 7 games by manipulating the points system together with fairman. betiko tried all regular ways (such as playing speed games) to move up on the Monthly Scoreboard for November until 29 November. However, on 29 November he realized that he will not make it to top 10 and then he got an idea which is against the site rules about how he can "earn" the missing points in order to catch 10th place on Scoreboard and get the medal. He made deal with his long time partner in team games and his clan mate fairman that they will start 10 games, and if betiko is going to lose games within November then he will play his turns slowly in order that games finish in December, but in case that betiko is going to win their games then they will speed up games in order that games end within November and be counted for the November Monthly Scoreboard. Thanks to these points improperly earned from fairman, betiko entered top 10 Monthly Leaders by having 2631 points, while nacho65 were unfairly moved from deserved 10th place to 11th place with 2553 points. I suggest that betiko loses his Medal earned by breaking site rules, and that the medal should be awarded to nacho65 who earned it by playing without breaking the site rules.

What is wrong and what is correct here? Correct is that betiko can play his own turns on the way he wants, slower of faster, but against the site rules is that he is in obvious agreement with his opponent that the opponent also plays his turns faster or slower. In this case, he was in agreement with fairman that fairman plays his turns fast enough that all games where betiko is winning will be over in just two days, from 29 November (starting date) to 30 November (ending date).

fairman admits that they were in agreement in wall discussion with me. Here is what he wrote on my wall on 29 November:

fairman wrote:Bet (betiko) is doing the same as many players, starting many games in the last days of the month and accelerate the wins.
Nothing special here

That wall post proves that fairman is in agreement with betiko about their doings and that he entered these 10 games fully aware that games will be used for betiko's artifical increase of score within November.

In addition to that, betiko did two more occasions of rule breaking:
Game 17027064
betiko asked his opponent to wait with playing his winning turn until December

betiko wrote:2016-11-30 09:34:03 - betiko: can i ask you a big favour? don't finish me today wait for tonight

Game 17025818 betiko asked his opponent to wait with playing his winning turn until December. Furthermore, when the opponent did not listen him and played his turn within November (in Game 17025821), betiko complained to him.

betiko wrote:2016-11-29 19:26:26 - betiko: i'll wait till tomorrow to play my turn, if you have won by then i would really apreciate if you could start turn and cash your win only when the timer says december 1st in the top left corner
2016-12-01 07:29:08 - betiko: did you take your turn on the other game 8 minutes before december 1st on purpose?
2016-12-01 07:30:16 - betiko: hopefully I just made it, and hopefully i made the 21v23 here otherwise i wouldn't ve got my medal

From the presented evidence, it is obvious that betiko not only manages to play his own turns slower or faster (which is not against rules), but he is also influencing his opponents to play their turns slower or faster in order that he can make his wins within November and losses within December. Furthermore, he is doing it by being in agreement with his long time friend and clan mate fairman. They started 10 games from which betiko won 7 and have earned 135 points, however if we will not take the medal out from betiko for earning it on this way by breaking site rules, then someone will use the same pattern and play 20, 30, 50 or 100 games on this way, and earn more than 1000 points from his friend in order to get the medal.

I hope the officials will, based on presented evidence, take the Monthly Leader medal out from betiko and award it to nacho65, who legitimately deserved that medal.

you've got quite some time on your hands josko. (I'm not even bothering to read all that waste of time pamphlet you wrote)
First by meticulously checking all my medals on the week end to ask me to get stripped from a medal that a mod accidentally gave me twice 2 years ago; now spend that much time building a case based on what... something everybody does to get on a monthly scoreboard. get rid of your losses ASAP by the end of month N-1, cash your wins when month N starts and then do the opposite at the end of month N.
You could build such case on hundreds of people; practically anyone who has won a monthly scoreboard medal.
I don't believe that playing 10 games against a friend is against the rule and that 10 games represent a figure large enough.

I don't know if you're aware but I've sent an e-ticket yestarday against you for harassment. Since you are such a competitive nutcase, you've been stalking me, my friends, my opponents... even sending wall posts and PMs to my opponents to tell them to rush their wins against me. You truely have some psychological issues and I feel very sorry for you.

If what I did is really against the rules (I'm pretty sure it's not) and I get a sanction for this stupid case, I'm going to leave this site. You've made my experience and fairman's impossible since the other day, he feels like leaving the site too due to your frenetic harrassment.

People have to do things the way josko decides here, be aware you guys who have a bigger score or more medals than him. Like Louis XIV in Versailles, he will accept no shadow from others and he will hunt you down and check all the games you create, join, when and how you take your turns.

Get a life josko, seriously, I'm worried about you.

PS: I will not bother to even come back in this shit thread. I have josko foed since the other day. Mods PM me if you want to discuss anything about this. I really don't want anything to do with this despicable narcisit person.

betiko asked for a favor. He didn't ask anyone to break the rules. He didn't ask them to throw the game, or miss turns, or what have you; he asked them to take their turn a few hours later. And obviously not everyone humored him. I understand why he'd do it, and why he'd be ticked; he's trying to win a medal. Surely you know what that's like, josko...

Back when I played this game, years before these stupid "most improved" medals came out, I always accelerated games I was going to win, and delayed games I was going to lose. Not to manipulate points, but because winning is more fun than losing. These medals and the nature of the scoreboard itself create scenarios where it's advantageous for players to to this; how many cases have we seen over the years of players trying to sling-shot their way up the scoreboard?

betiko wrote:I don't know if you're aware but I've sent an e-ticket yestarday against you for harassment. Since you are such a competitive nutcase, you've been stalking me, my friends, my opponents... even sending wall posts and PMs to my opponents to tell them to rush their wins against me. You truely have some psychological issues and I feel very sorry for you.

You may send the e-ticket but all what I did is because I noticed that you and fairman are breaking site rules, so I tried to warn fairman that what he is doing is against site rules. I noticed that a day in advance when rules were still not broken but I forecasted what is your intention and why you are doing it.

I send only one PM to your opponent (not many), who is Freemium, and told him that you will hold him hostage for one day in Game 17026907. I did not tell him to accelerate his turns versus you. It was really true because on your last 2 turns you did not play like you want to win but you played like you want only to make this game 2 turns longer. I have also thought to include that game in the case but I did not. However, in last 2 turns in the game you only escaped from your opponent to region where he cannot catch you (trench) instead of fighting him back. This is playing not to win but to make game longer, also borderline of the site rules because everyone should play to win.

@Serbia. He intentionally started 10 NEW games vs fairman just with intention to manipulate the points. If that is not against site rules, someone may start 100 and ensure winning monthly leader medal because from 100 games, about 50 will be wins, and that is 50*20 = 1000 points.

Serbia wrote:betiko asked for a favor. He didn't ask anyone to break the rules. He didn't ask them to throw the game, or miss turns, or what have you; he asked them to take their turn a few hours later. And obviously not everyone humored him. I understand why he'd do it, and why he'd be ticked; he's trying to win a medal. Surely you know what that's like, josko...

Back when I played this game, years before these stupid "most improved" medals came out, I always accelerated games I was going to win, and delayed games I was going to lose. Not to manipulate points, but because winning is more fun than losing. These medals and the nature of the scoreboard itself create scenarios where it's advantageous for players to to this; how many cases have we seen over the years of players trying to sling-shot their way up the scoreboard?

the only way josko could get to conqueror was by manipulating the scoreboard and timing his wins losses. I really don't give a shit about that, but I think that josko should build a case against himself and ask mods to remove his conqueror medal (and ollie's, and thecrown's, and all other people who went to conqueror by doing that).

PS: josko looks like you replied something, but you are on my foe list.sorry I can't read you

josko.ri wrote:From the presented evidence, it is obvious that betiko not only manages to play his own turns slower or faster (which is not against rules), but he is also influencing his opponents to play their turns slower or faster in order that he can make his wins within November and losses within December.

And which rule did he break by doing so ? Just wondering ^^ Because never heard of such a rule.

Btw :
How what he did is different of what you did ?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=201349&hilit=josko&start=50

If you look at Game 13900095 as one example you can see that Josko is playing his turns almost 24 hours after the previous turn in a game that he's forecast to lose [a tactic that The Crown adopted to excess]. What's interesting though is that his faithful sidekick and opponent Moonchild is also taking almost 24 hours to take his turns in that game, alluding to collusion between the two to delay the loss. The two of them are doing the same in Game 13900182. Conversely however, in Game 13900094 (a game Josko was destined to win) both he and Moonchild took their turns as quickly as possible.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that of course (other than manipulation of Josko's score) but it's not something to say "Wow, I'm impressed" over as he approaches a CC high score. It took chicanery and collusion to do so.

Everyone has 24 to play their turn. And they can use them as they see fit, this has been already answered by the mods before.
Asking your opponent to play slowly isn't forbidden, or please show me where it is written it is ?

josko.ri wrote:@Serbia. He intentionally started 10 NEW games vs fairman just with intention to manipulate the points. If that is not against site rules, someone may start 100 and ensure winning monthly leader medal because from 100 games, about 50 will be wins, and that is 50*20 = 1000 points.

Has been done before. For conqueror medal as well btw. Won't bother looking for the evidence, it should be common knowledge.

@betiko:
I was ALREADY conqueror when I did something similar to what you did, so dont tell false information here. However, what I did was playing my own turns slow, I did not influence my opponents to play their turns slow or fast.

@Donelladan:
You asked me what he did differently than what I had done.
To answer, I have not been in any agreement with my opponents about how they should play their turns, nor I have asked my opponents to delay their winning turns in order that I can achieve high score. However, betiko did exactly that.
What I did was managing speed on MY OWN turns, what betiko did is managing speed of BOTH his own turns and OPPONENTS' turns. With fairman he was in agreement that fairman plays quickly his turns and betiko will manage speed of his own turns accordingly, while with the other two examples he directly asked the opponent to play turn slower (after December 1).

Managing speed of your own turns is not against site rules, managing of your opponent's turns speed is against site rules.

In addition there are about 20 other games started on November 29 or 30 where betiko did EXACTLY what I have done, which were not included in the report because it was already ruled as not breaking site rules. He joined new games and played real time until he was about to lose the game then stopped to play his turn. If he was going to win the game then he continued to play RT. In the report was included only games where he had agreement or tried to have agreement to influence how his OPPONENT will play his turns.

josko.ri wrote:Managing speed of your own turns is not against site rules, managing of your opponent's turns speed is against site rules.

1st, the quote I made, was explicitely showing that you were probably doing the same with one of your mate. Should I pull out the time stamp to prove that you exactly did this ?

2nd, where did you read that it was forbidden to ask your opponent to play slowly ? Show me the rule and we can end this discussion.


Managing speed of your own turns is not against site rules, managing of your opponent's turns speed is against site rules.

EvilSemp wrote:Manipulate is to handle, control or influence a situation. In this case it was score. The question is did he break the rules? I could not find where josko.ri broke any rules. Don't we alL manipulate our score by trying to win a game? This is a casual website where you can take up to 24 hours for your turn. josko.ri is CLEARED.

source (page 4) :

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... o&start=75

Donelladan wrote:

josko.ri wrote:Managing speed of your own turns is not against site rules, managing of your opponent's turns speed is against site rules.

1st, the quote I made, was explicitely showing that you were probably doing the same with one of your mate. Should I pull out the time stamp to prove that you exactly did this ?

2nd, where did you read that it was forbidden to ask your opponent to play slowly ? Show me the rule and we can end this discussion.


Managing speed of your own turns is not against site rules, managing of your opponent's turns speed is against site rules.

EvilSemp wrote:Manipulate is to handle, control or influence a situation. In this case it was score. The question is did he break the rules? I could not find where josko.ri broke any rules. Don't we alL manipulate our score by trying to win a game? This is a casual website where you can take up to 24 hours for your turn. josko.ri is CLEARED.

source (page 4) :

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... o&start=75

I did not do the same with some of my mate. Do not false accuse me without evidence. I was not in agreement with any of my opponents to increase/decrease speed of their turns. I only played my own turns slower or faster.

Thank you for quoting EvilSemp's verdict. That precedental verdict clearly shows the hypothesis I am defending, and it is that you are free to do whatever you want with speed of your own turns. However, betiko manipulated or tried to manipulate his opponents' speed of playing turns and it makes him crossing the line of what is allowed by rules.

josko.ri wrote:To answer, I have not been in any agreement with my opponents about how they should play their turns, nor I have asked my opponents to delay their winning turns in order that I can achieve high score. However, betiko did exactly that.

Accuse betiko ( and fairman ) all you want.
But seriously, do you need to lie ?

josko.ri wrote:I did not do the same with some of my mate. Do not false accuse me without evidence. I was not in agreement with any of my opponents to increase/decrease speed of their turns. I only played my own turns slower or faster.

During your high score, you played ( at least ) 3 games against MoonChild, a regular teammates of yours.

Game 13900094 Starting time : 2014-01-20 12:17:52 - Game has been initialized - End time : 2014-01-20 13:04:52 - josko.ri won the game
Game 13900095 Starting time : 2014-01-20 12:17:52 - Game has been initialized - End time : 2014-01-27 01:41:23 - Moonchild won the game
Game 13900182 Starting time : 2014-01-20 12:48:16 - Game has been initialized - End time : 2014-01-30 10:24:26 - Moonchild won the game

Interestingly, 3 games started the exact same date, within 1 hour of each other, and 2 of them at the exact same time.
1 of them finished within 1 hour, the one you won. 2 of them finished a week ( or more after) the ones that you lost.

Why ? Because you were trying to reach a high score, delaying loss, speeding up wins. ( evidence of that is in the two links I provided in my two previous posts).

Accused:

betiko
fairman

The accused are suspected of:

Other: Manipulating Monthly Scoreboard points

Game number(s):
Game 17022225 started 29 Nov, betiko won 20 points on 29 Nov
Game 17022229 started 29 Nov, betiko won 20 points on 29 Nov
Game 17022226 started 29 Nov, betiko won 18 points on 30 Nov
Game 17024412 started 29 Nov, betiko won 19 points on 30 Nov
Game 17024413 started 29 Nov, betiko won 19 points on 30 Nov
Game 17024414 started 29 Nov, betiko won 20 points on 29 Nov
Game 17024416 started 29 Nov, betiko won 19 points on 30 Nov
Game 17022228 fairman will win but in December, still ongoing game because betiko played slow turns when he saw that he will lose.
Game 17022227 fairman will win but in December, still ongoing game because betiko played slow turns when he saw that he will lose.
Game 17024415 fairman won but on Dec 1 because betiko played slow turns when he saw that he will lose.

josko.ri wrote:Thank you for quoting EvilSemp's verdict. That precedental verdict clearly shows the hypothesis I am defending, and it is that you are free to do whatever you want with speed of your own turns. However, betiko manipulated or tried to manipulate his opponents' speed of playing turns and it makes him crossing the line of what is allowed by rules.

If I understood you correctly, you are accusing betiko to manipulate fairman's speed of playing turns ?

But time stamp show that you are wrong :
Game 17022228

2016-11-29 13:17:23 - betiko ended the turn and got spoils
2016-11-29 13:17:23 - Incrementing game to round 3
2016-11-29 16:57:23 - fairman received 2 troops for holding Magyar Királyság

...


2016-11-30 11:59:02 - betiko ended the turn and got spoils
2016-11-30 11:59:02 - Incrementing game to round 4
2016-11-30 13:16:22 - fairman received 2 troops for holding Magyar Királyság

...


In this game, fairman played 3h40 after betiko, and then 1h17 after betiko. Do you REALLY think fairman was delaying his turn ?


Next one : Game 17022227

2016-11-30 12:00:23 - betiko ended the turn and got spoils
2016-11-30 12:00:23 - Incrementing game to round 6
2016-11-30 13:18:28 - fairman got bonus of 1 troops added to D. Medina Sedonia M1


Here fairman played 1h20 after betiko !


Next one : Game 17024415

2016-11-30 19:36:47 - betiko ended the turn and got spoils
2016-11-30 19:38:49 - fairman received 6 troops for 20 regions

Well, 2 min after betiko.... I mean, really, do you think fairman delayed his turn ??


Someone, in those 3 games, did wait a longer time to play his turn.
Do you know who that is ? betiko ! who is definitely allowed to do that



So, where is your case ?
( PS : you can check time stamp in your game against MoonChild, Moonchild did wait more than 23 hours to take his turn, nice mate you had )

In the presented games versus Moonchild, only me played slow turns and that is why games were delayed.

However, Moonchild played his own turns on his own convenience and without being asked by me to cooperate with me. That can easily be seen by example that he played his last turn in Game 13900095 with 15 hours left on timer and the turn before that with 12 hours left on timer. How he is cooperating with me if he plays his winning turns with so much time left on timer? If we were in agreement he would surely use more time to play his winning turn and therefore help me more.

Again I repeat, I did not ask any of my opponent at that time, including Moonchild, to make their turns slower or faster. My opponents played their turn on their own convenience, which is contrary to what betiko did.

Cross posted ! But fairman played his turn with more than 20 hours left on the time, as I just showed. So again, where is your case ?

But about you and MoonChild, you fucking kidding me right ? Outright lie in my face !

josko.ri wrote:In the presented games versus Moonchild, only me played slow turns and that is why games were delayed.

However, Moonchild played his own turns on his own convenience and without being asked by me to cooperate with me. That can easily be seen by example that he played his last turn in Game 13900095 with 15 hours left on timer and the turn before that with 12 hours left on timer.

Game 13900095

2014-01-21 11:52:19 - josko.ri ended the turn
2014-01-21 11:52:19 - Incrementing game to round 4
2014-01-22 10:15:03 - Moonchild received 2 troops for holding South America

Next turn :
2014-01-22 10:15:26 - Moonchild ended the turn
2014-01-23 10:14:01 - josko.ri received 3 troops for 8 regions

Next turn
2014-01-23 10:14:27 - josko.ri ended the turn
2014-01-23 10:14:27 - Incrementing game to round 5
2014-01-24 10:07:22 - Moonchild received 2 troops for holding South America


Then you also took 23h+ to take your turn, and then the 2 last turn were played faster, guess why, you already had your high score !


If need be, the other game is just the same :


Game 13900182

2014-01-21 11:53:31 - josko.ri ended the turn
2014-01-21 11:53:32 - Incrementing game to round 3
2014-01-22 10:15:33 - Moonchild received 5 troops for 17 regions

2014-01-23 10:15:25 - josko.ri ended the turn
2014-01-23 10:15:25 - Incrementing game to round 4
2014-01-24 10:08:04 - Moonchild received 5 troops for 17 regions

I mean, can you take longer than 23h47 min to take your turn ? not that much !

Then it goes a little bit faster, we know why


Now you can apologize for your lies. Just apologize for all of them at once, I don't care how many times you did lie today.

Donelladan wrote:

Accused:

betiko
fairman

The accused are suspected of:

Other: Manipulating Monthly Scoreboard points

Game number(s):
Game 17022225 started 29 Nov, betiko won 20 points on 29 Nov
Game 17022229 started 29 Nov, betiko won 20 points on 29 Nov
Game 17022226 started 29 Nov, betiko won 18 points on 30 Nov
Game 17024412 started 29 Nov, betiko won 19 points on 30 Nov
Game 17024413 started 29 Nov, betiko won 19 points on 30 Nov
Game 17024414 started 29 Nov, betiko won 20 points on 29 Nov
Game 17024416 started 29 Nov, betiko won 19 points on 30 Nov
Game 17022228 fairman will win but in December, still ongoing game because betiko played slow turns when he saw that he will lose.
Game 17022227 fairman will win but in December, still ongoing game because betiko played slow turns when he saw that he will lose.
Game 17024415 fairman won but on Dec 1 because betiko played slow turns when he saw that he will lose.

josko.ri wrote:Thank you for quoting EvilSemp's verdict. That precedental verdict clearly shows the hypothesis I am defending, and it is that you are free to do whatever you want with speed of your own turns. However, betiko manipulated or tried to manipulate his opponents' speed of playing turns and it makes him crossing the line of what is allowed by rules.

If I understood you correctly, you are accusing betiko to manipulate fairman's speed of playing turns ?

But time stamp show that you are wrong :
Game 17022228

2016-11-29 13:17:23 - betiko ended the turn and got spoils
2016-11-29 13:17:23 - Incrementing game to round 3
2016-11-29 16:57:23 - fairman received 2 troops for holding Magyar Királyság

...


2016-11-30 11:59:02 - betiko ended the turn and got spoils
2016-11-30 11:59:02 - Incrementing game to round 4
2016-11-30 13:16:22 - fairman received 2 troops for holding Magyar Királyság

...


In this game, fairman played 3h40 after betiko, and then 1h17 after betiko. Do you REALLY think fairman was delaying his turn ?


Next one : Game 17022227

2016-11-30 12:00:23 - betiko ended the turn and got spoils
2016-11-30 12:00:23 - Incrementing game to round 6
2016-11-30 13:18:28 - fairman got bonus of 1 troops added to D. Medina Sedonia M1


Here fairman played 1h20 after betiko !


Next one : Game 17024415

2016-11-30 19:36:47 - betiko ended the turn and got spoils
2016-11-30 19:38:49 - fairman received 6 troops for 20 regions

Well, 2 min after betiko.... I mean, really, do you think fairman delayed his turn ??


Someone, in those 3 games, did wait a longer time to play his turn.
Do you know who that is ? betiko ! who is definitely allowed to do that



So, where is your case ?

fairman played fast ALL games, which is why betiko chose him, instead of for example try to earn 135 points versus someone who is not his friend, which we must agree would be very hard task in only two days. That was their side agreeement, that fairman needs to play fast and betiko will accordingly manage speed of his turns, with making only wins to end before December. So fairman only needed to play fast, in ALL games, in order that they manipulate the score. as for losing games, betiko managed his turn speed to not end in 1 day. (it is not so hard task to do as only one turn is one day)

If this is something to be approved as not breaking rules, then is question how many games they could play. They could also start 100 games, and fairman should play fast, from these 100 about 50 would be won by betiko, which is 50*20 = 1000 free points for betiko. is it something we want to see in future?

Ok, so now your argument is that fairman played too fast ???? SERIOUSLY ??

Btw, fairman played fast in both game he lost and he won.

I love how jokeso's evidence that betiko and fairman colluded with each other consists entirely of examples of betiko being ignored by fairman. Not just a lack of evidence, but actually evidence that jokeso's accusation is untrue.

I wish to accuse saxitoxin of secret diplomacy against me in our recent Eurasia game, based on the fact that the other players never posted on his wall during the game. Don't you think that's suspicious, right????

As for my playing with Moonchild, if you think it is against the site rules, then please open another C&A case and report me.
If you can prove that Moonchild and me were in agreement, I agree to take consequences for these actions.

I again repeat my statement:
Moonchild played his own turns on his own convenience and without being asked by me to cooperate with me.

If Moonchild played his turns slow that was only his own choice, it was not agreement with me that he do it.
However, I have presented in OP evidence wall post from fairman telling that he is fully aware what betiko is doing and that he is willingly participating in it.
betiko played about 30 games, of which 12 of them are questioned (10 with fairman and 2 where he openly asked his opponents to not play within November).

What is your opinion about these 2 cases where he openly asked opponents not to play winning turn within November? You intentionally cut them from my evidence in your posting.

I was in the top 10 yesterday at 16.00 GMT when i lost a big amount of point from one game which i didn't foresee.

But before that i was asking my teammates ( who was mostly Donelladan ) to play fast games we were winning and slowly the games we were losing.

Now, If i follow what you said, i would have been against the rule by doing that? Sorry but this is completly nosense for me.

In my opinion, these games would have need a report if fairman was always losing them ( and that would have mean directly sending point to betiko). Which is obviously not the case here.

ancessus wrote:But before that i was asking my teammates ( who was mostly Donelladan ) to play fast games we were winning and slowly the games we were losing.

You have tried to accelerate wins in games you were ALREADY winning.

However, betiko and fairman started 10 NEW games just 1 or 2 days before the end of the month and accelerated only ones that betiko was winning.

Against rules would be if you asked Donelladan to start new games and that he cooperate with you with his fast turns.

Also, I have some some comments that EVERYONE is doing this.

This is utterly untrue and I will give you two example. Last two month, in October and September 2016, I finished on Monthly scoreboard 11th and 14th respectively with around 100 monthly points away from 10th place. When I was close to the line of 10th place, I tried to cross the line by playing speed games, which I can either win or lose BUT within the same month. One of these games was accidentally against Donelladan. You can check these games are Game 16960885 2016-10-31 23:20:58 - jtctaker eliminated josko.ri from the game and Game 16960740 2016-11-01 23:44:04 - josko.ri was kicked out for missing too many turns. People are attacking me here that I (or "everyone" use the same methods

Also, I have read some some comments that EVERYONE is doing this.

This is utterly untrue and I will give you two examples. Last two months, in October and September 2016, I finished on Monthly scoreboard 11th and 14th respectively with around 100 monthly points away from 10th place. When I was close to the line of 10th place, I tried to cross the line by playing speed games, which I can either win or lose BUT within the same month. One of these games was accidentally against Donelladan. You can check these games are Game 16960885 2016-10-31 23:20:58 - jtctaker eliminated josko.ri from the game and Game 16960740 2016-10-31 23:44:04 - josko.ri was kicked out for missing too many turns. People are attacking me here that I (or "everyone") use the same methods when we are going for monthly Leader medal however that is obviously untrue based by my presented evidence from last two months.

So I have legal right to question his way of taking "extra" points for the medal because 2 months in a row I have been left without a monthly medal because I did not use this cheap way of getting it but have used regular way in which I get the medal if I win enough speed games but lose the medal if I lose. In presented cases, I have both time lost and accepted these losses.

TWO THINGS:

first, we all do this to an extent... losing some games against low ranked players? either stall those losses to hold rank and try to clobber a big dog or lose them all quickly to increase the amount of points taken in one win... we all manipulate our scores/medals in one way or another... it is gaming the system... i don't think he has violated any written rule... if he has, please show it to me... unethical? even that is hard to prove, since i already showed how so many do this for their own reasons, one way or the other... now, had he asked people to intentionally break an actual written rule, you would have a case... i just don't know how you can press this, when it is not a written rule, but gamesmanship...-Bj

secondly,

josko.ri wrote:So I have legal right to question his way of taking "extra" points for the medal

then you should hire an attorney, have him file a lawsuit in whichever court it is you believe that has jurisdiction over CC and have your say in a court of law. what LEGAL RIGHT do you have here on CC regarding points and how they are earned, etc? what laws of the land cover CC to the extent that you have a LEGAL RIGHT? that is absolutely ridiculous. you take this all way too seriously... ever hear of blitzaholic? i love the passion, but this is somewhat troubling behaviour...

good luck with this. you all take this medal/scoreboard shit way too seriously... but hey, whatever keeps you coming back for more, right? whatever keeps you involved in the site... who am i to judge? i just know there is not a rule violation to be seen here and the black jesus is never wrong...-Bj

p.s.-the responses to my post in your medals thread, make absolute sense now...

josko.ri wrote:Also, I have read some some comments that EVERYONE is doing this.

This is utterly untrue and I will give you two examples. Last two months, in October and September 2016, I finished on Monthly scoreboard 11th and 14th respectively with around 100 monthly points away from 10th place. When I was close to the line of 10th place, I tried to cross the line by playing speed games, which I can either win or lose BUT within the same month. One of these games was accidentally against Donelladan. You can check these games are Game 16960885 2016-10-31 23:20:58 - jtctaker eliminated josko.ri from the game and Game 16960740 2016-10-31 23:44:04 - josko.ri was kicked out for missing too many turns. People are attacking me here that I (or "everyone") use the same methods when we are going for monthly Leader medal however that is obviously untrue based by my presented evidence from last two months.

So I have legal right to question his way of taking "extra" points for the medal because 2 months in a row I have been left without a monthly medal because I did not use this cheap way of getting it but have used regular way in which I get the medal if I win enough speed games but lose the medal if I lose. In presented cases, I have both time lost and accepted these losses.

so... you proving that you are an idiot makes a case and we all should be the same kind of idiots as you?
Sorry but where is your special colour, are you like head thinker of CC ethics here, in a dictatorial way?
As far as I'm concerned, I drew a line at 10 games against fairman, who plays turns fast indeed, and that's why I chose to play against him. I didn't know it was against the rules to start games against a fast player. As Don showed you, fairman has played ALL his turns fast, winning or losing.
On your side it has clearly been proved that you had an agreement with your partner (almost your multi since you used to play 2/7 days a week all his turns, as he couldn't play on week ends); and you come here to throw shit at me?


YOU ARE EMBARASSING YOURSELF JOSKO

Yesterday, I had some games with a lot of random players, and I was about to win one of them, so I checked if the guy was online to see if the game could be finished yesterday. And what do I see?
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=26473

Josko was PMing and harrassing this guy on his wall because I was playing him? Do you understand this is harrassment? And that you have been harrassing me for a week for no other reason than me having more medals than you? How much time have you spent on me this week? Can you justify it by any oher reason than my medal count higher than yours and my extreme sexiness?

betiko wrote:

josko.ri wrote:Also, I have read some some comments that EVERYONE is doing this.

This is utterly untrue and I will give you two examples. Last two months, in October and September 2016, I finished on Monthly scoreboard 11th and 14th respectively with around 100 monthly points away from 10th place. When I was close to the line of 10th place, I tried to cross the line by playing speed games, which I can either win or lose BUT within the same month. One of these games was accidentally against Donelladan. You can check these games are Game 16960885 2016-10-31 23:20:58 - jtctaker eliminated josko.ri from the game and Game 16960740 2016-10-31 23:44:04 - josko.ri was kicked out for missing too many turns. People are attacking me here that I (or "everyone") use the same methods when we are going for monthly Leader medal however that is obviously untrue based by my presented evidence from last two months.

So I have legal right to question his way of taking "extra" points for the medal because 2 months in a row I have been left without a monthly medal because I did not use this cheap way of getting it but have used regular way in which I get the medal if I win enough speed games but lose the medal if I lose. In presented cases, I have both time lost and accepted these losses.

so... you proving that you are an idiot makes a case and we all should be the same kind of idiots as you?

I am idiot because I tried to win monthly leadr medal on honest way but failed, however you are smart because you manipulated the point system in order to win the monthly medal? So much of a honor you have

As for the pm I sent you your opponent, I will write contents here so everyone may see it is not harassment.

Sent: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:40 pm
From: josko.ri
To: carlosika

betiko will hold you hostage in this game until tomorrow.

Game 17026907

That is because he is playing only turns in games he is winning, in order to unfairly earn monthly leader monthly medal ahead of someone who honestly deserved it. Just saying so that you know for which purposes is he using games versus you.

In games he was winning versus you he takes wins within this month to advance on monthly scoreboard. however in games he is losing like the doodle earth he will play his turn tomorrow, when he will not need points for monthly leader scoreboard.

I will file a C&A report versus him because what he is doing is manipulating the score and against site rules. I just let you know his intentions because he is opponent in games versus you.

I do not see any harassment done in informing a player what are your intentions versus him. And I was right, you played last 2 turns of the game by taking UK and Greenland which was not intention to win the game but is to prolong the game for one more turn because your opponent was south of you and you attacked neutrals north from you just to make the game longer (trench). So you accuse me because I was right and I informed you opponent what will happen (and it indeed happened).I was thinking if I should include that game in the case because you intentionally play not to win but to make the game longer.

This is quote from my wall from nacho65, who finished 11th on Monthly scoreboard and who lost his honestly deserved medal because betiko cheated.

Dear Josko,
I'm really impressed of your honesty: you didn't have anything to win but you took your time to denounce game manipulators and favor me as fair winner. If there were more people like you, the world would be much better.
Thank you very much!
You got me as a friend.
With warmest regards,
Nacho

Still, nobody of betiko's defenders mentioned this part of my accusation, everyone is only commenting about fairman.

So what his defenders say about this part of the accusations?

Game 17027064 betiko asked his opponent to wait with playing his winning turn until December
Game 17025818 betiko asked his opponent to wait with playing his winning turn until December. Furthermore, when the opponent did not listen him and played his turn within November, betiko complained to him

Game 17027064
betiko asked his opponent to wait with playing his winning turn until December

betiko wrote:2016-11-30 09:34:03 - betiko: can i ask you a big favour? don't finish me today wait for tonight

Game 17025818 betiko asked his opponent to wait with playing his winning turn until December. Furthermore, when the opponent did not listen him and played his turn within November (in Game 17025821), betiko complained to him.

betiko wrote:2016-11-29 19:26:26 - betiko: i'll wait till tomorrow to play my turn, if you have won by then i would really apreciate if you could start turn and cash your win only when the timer says december 1st in the top left corner
2016-12-01 07:29:08 - betiko: did you take your turn on the other game 8 minutes before december 1st on purpose?
2016-12-01 07:30:16 - betiko: hopefully I just made it, and hopefully i made the 21v23 here otherwise i wouldn't ve got my medal

Hey smarty pants: are you accusing me of not throwing a game?
I never thought of this, but time has come for me to give strategical advice to mister josko, king of the universe.
I was playing a doodle earth game with nuclear trench settings; in case you didn't know, on such a small map, you can easily end up nuking your opponent's stack and break his bonus. Really I'm so sorry I've been such a horrible person and stil believe I could win that game. Really, I mean my poor freemium opponent had 3 open slots he played against me, and within a couple of hours 2 games were finished while the third one that I lost lasted less than 24H... the entire game. I really think we got a case here! you did well to PM this guy and explain what a horrible cheat I was not to finish an entire game within 24h and to not give up when I still had a small chance.

Josko, you are a jackass. And you haven't answer my question. Why are you so obsessed with me?

You know what josko... Instead of being here behind our keyboard, we could go to a park and we could play fetch the ball together. I'd scratch your back and tell you nice things. But here we are, getting upset over the interwebs because a guy you'll never see in your life living on the other side of the world has played a risk game taking his sweet time (less than 24h) against another dude you've never heard of and that you will never meet either. I know it's quite shocking, but guess what, life sometimes is unfair.