Cleared Delf violating fog of war [tg]

[Lonous]

This is my first time reporting. Apologies if this is clumsy. FYI I watched the posted tutorial video on how to do this and it helped, thanks.

Accused:
Delf

The accused are suspected of:
Other: Violating the in game fog of war by taking screen shots of enemy troop counts and then posting links to those pics in the game chat for other players to see.

Game number(s):
Game 16135720

Comments:
While I don't see this type of violation listed specifically in this area, fog of war is and should be mandatory in games where the game creator chose that option.
Deliberately circumventing that game mechanic with tools from outside the game like hosted images isn't allowed, is it?
It can't be, it is completely against the spirit of the fog of war option.

Either way, thank you for your time and having this forum area set up to report violations like this.

[waauw]

It's not against the rules. Some people frown upon it, whilst others use information as a means for politics. But in short, if you don't like it just give 'm a bad rating, maybe even foe him. Otherwise just let it go, especially since it seems he just wanted to prove to other players he wasn't a liar.

[Donelladan]

It's not against the rules. Some people frown upon it, whilst others use information as a means for politics. But in short, if you don't like it just give 'm a bad rating, maybe even foe him. Otherwise just let it go, especially since it seems he just wanted to prove to other players he wasn't a liar.

Giving information in the game chat is definitely not against the rules, but I always understood this is because no one can know if this information is true or not.
Here the accused put an image, a bit like if he was putting a snapshot in the game chat. It's a step further than just saying someone has that many troops there.
Maybe it's ok too. But it's definitely different of saying " hey this guy has a 450 stack" which is the usual stuff people complain about.

[shoop76]

I would disagree. This is 100% against the rules. Snaps are meant for private or team use and should not be spread in chat or otherwise. In my opinion this is going to far.

That being said I am also someone who believes that typing players positions and strength in chat should be illegal, but I might be in the minority there.

[iAmCaffeine]

I would disagree. This is 100% against the rules. Snaps are meant for private or team use and should not be spread in chat or otherwise. In my opinion this is going to far.

[Donelladan]

I would disagree. This is 100% against the rules. Snaps are meant for private or team use and should not be spread in chat or otherwise. In my opinion this is going to far..

I agree with that.
But I don't think there is an official rule at the moment about it.

[iAmCaffeine]

I would disagree. This is 100% against the rules. Snaps are meant for private or team use and should not be spread in chat or otherwise. In my opinion this is going to far..

I agree with that.
But I don't think there is an official rule at the moment about it.

I think you're right. Time for precedent to be set.

[shoop76]

Not everything has a written rule, but that doesn't mean it isn't illegal.

[owenshooter]

I would disagree. This is 100% against the rules. Snaps are meant for private or team use and should not be spread in chat or otherwise. In my opinion this is going to far.

That being said I am also someone who believes that typing players positions and strength in chat should be illegal, but I might be in the minority there.

disagree all you want, it is not against the rules to share troop position in Fog games. putting a snap in chat, is the same thing. he is just making it clear that it is not gamesmanship, but fact. until there is a rule change, this is in no way a violation. sorry about your little butt...-Jésus noir

p.s.-foe and move on, blah, blah, blah...

[waauw]

It's not against the rules. Some people frown upon it, whilst others use information as a means for politics. But in short, if you don't like it just give 'm a bad rating, maybe even foe him. Otherwise just let it go, especially since it seems he just wanted to prove to other players he wasn't a liar.

Giving information in the game chat is definitely not against the rules, but I always understood this is because no one can know if this information is true or not.
Here the accused put an image, a bit like if he was putting a snapshot in the game chat. It's a step further than just saying someone has that many troops there.
Maybe it's ok too. But it's definitely different of saying " hey this guy has a 450 stack" which is the usual stuff people complain about.

To be honest, you still don't know if it's true or not, not for certain anyway. It's extremely easy to photoshop such an image, and it only takes 5 minutes.

[Donelladan]

It's not against the rules. Some people frown upon it, whilst others use information as a means for politics. But in short, if you don't like it just give 'm a bad rating, maybe even foe him. Otherwise just let it go, especially since it seems he just wanted to prove to other players he wasn't a liar.

Giving information in the game chat is definitely not against the rules, but I always understood this is because no one can know if this information is true or not.
Here the accused put an image, a bit like if he was putting a snapshot in the game chat. It's a step further than just saying someone has that many troops there.
Maybe it's ok too. But it's definitely different of saying " hey this guy has a 450 stack" which is the usual stuff people complain about.

To be honest, you still don't know if it's true or not, not for certain anyway. It's extremely easy to photoshop such an image, and it only takes 5 minutes.

You're right, but what if he had posted a snapshot ? This you can't photoshop, would you still think it's ok ?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

To be honest, you still don't know if it's true or not, not for certain anyway. It's extremely easy to photoshop such an image, and it only takes 5 minutes.

Validated by known tert counts and known information.

[waauw]

It's not against the rules. Some people frown upon it, whilst others use information as a means for politics. But in short, if you don't like it just give 'm a bad rating, maybe even foe him. Otherwise just let it go, especially since it seems he just wanted to prove to other players he wasn't a liar.

Giving information in the game chat is definitely not against the rules, but I always understood this is because no one can know if this information is true or not.
Here the accused put an image, a bit like if he was putting a snapshot in the game chat. It's a step further than just saying someone has that many troops there.
Maybe it's ok too. But it's definitely different of saying " hey this guy has a 450 stack" which is the usual stuff people complain about.

To be honest, you still don't know if it's true or not, not for certain anyway. It's extremely easy to photoshop such an image, and it only takes 5 minutes.

You're right, but what if he had posted a snapshot ? This you can't photoshop, would you still think it's ok ?

You can photoshop snapshots. To post them into chat, you have to download them and turn them into url's readable by everyone.

Also, if it weren't obvious already. I'm of the opinion that all is fair in love and war. I think it should be allowed. It carries both advantages and disadvantages after all(not only showing enemy troops but your own as well). I like the political aspect of the game and this, to me, is a purely political in-game decision.

To be honest, you still don't know if it's true or not, not for certain anyway. It's extremely easy to photoshop such an image, and it only takes 5 minutes.

Validated by known tert counts and known information.

Fair point, but some information is known to only 2 players sometimes.

[IcePack]

Kinda agree w Owen here. It's not against the rules but I would understand if they added it for future use.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

To be honest, you still don't know if it's true or not, not for certain anyway. It's extremely easy to photoshop such an image, and it only takes 5 minutes.

Validated by known tert counts and known information.

Fair point, but some information is known to only 2 players sometimes.

Careful, you're swaying into secret diplomancy territory there, which is why this isnt against the rules. No player has gained any benefit above others. Unsportsmanly for sure.

[eddie2]

I think you guys are looking at the wrong rule for the screen shot. Would it not come under the not playing the game it is meant to be played. And making the site less enjoyable for others.

I also do not like people revealing fog positions in game chat but main thing is a lot of players lie about position and troup count to try get the advantage. Screen shots is a stage 2 far.

[IcePack]

I think you guys are looking at the wrong rule for the screen shot. Would it not come under the not playing the game it is meant to be played. And making the site less enjoyable for others.

I also do not like people revealing fog positions in game chat but main thing is a lot of players lie about position and troup count to try get the advantage. Screen shots is a stage 2 far.

Its possible they could rule something like that, sure. The only section of the rules that specifically covers fog of war game troop revealing doesn't really touch on screen shots, and only really references chat (which can be faked). Images might be able to be faked, but idk... Its definitely grey area.

I'm all for revealing troop count in chat, because of the potential to fake and politics / whatever (tho i dont do it every game etc depending on the atmosphere of the game or players im playing against, i do use it on occassoin) but the screen shots is something i know i personally wouldn't do.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Would it not come under the not playing the game it is meant to be played. And making the site less enjoyable for others.

Ignoring the fact that those arent rules.

Lets look at how Fog of War "should" played.

1. Your troops should be spread out in such a way that no single player knows how strong you are.
2. You should take territories and continents in such a way that no single player knows how strong you are.
3. You should use the log and targetted attacks to gain as much information about your opponents as possible.

Now posting a screenshot.

- No single player should know your strengths, so posting a screenshot should not majorly affect you, but heavily disadvantage the player posting.

You lot are just overreacting because you havent seen it before and are acting in panic mode. The reality is its not normal because it isnt sensible player.

If that 450 stack is the only stack purple has, then he has failed point 1 of how to play fog of war and should be punished accordingly (according to Eddie anyway). I have far greater complaint with bad play than innovative play.

[waauw]

To be honest, you still don't know if it's true or not, not for certain anyway. It's extremely easy to photoshop such an image, and it only takes 5 minutes.

Validated by known tert counts and known information.

Fair point, but some information is known to only 2 players sometimes.

Careful, you're swaying into secret diplomancy territory there, which is why this isnt against the rules. No player has gained any benefit above others. Unsportsmanly for sure.

Huh? no I'm not. You must have misunderstood. I mean, if on map classic one person holds all south american and another holds all of Africa, then logically only 2 people will know what troopcount lies on Sao Paulo. That's what I meant. Some information just can't be verified by third parties.

[waauw]

- No single player should know your strengths, so posting a screenshot should not majorly affect you, but heavily disadvantage the player posting

This.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Huh? no I'm not. You must have misunderstood. I mean, if on map classic one person holds all south american and another holds all of Africa, then logically only 2 people will know what troopcount lies on Sao Paulo. That's what I meant.

And if one posts an incorrect screenshot, whilst the other says nothing...

[waauw]

Huh? no I'm not. You must have misunderstood. I mean, if on map classic one person holds all south american and another holds all of Africa, then logically only 2 people will know what troopcount lies on Sao Paulo. That's what I meant.

And if one posts an incorrect screenshot, whilst the other says nothing...

I entirely agree with you. I pointed out the exact same thing earlier. Photoshopping a screenshot is extremely easy. Even screenshots can not be trusted.

[eddie2]

Wing cannt remember the exact wording of the rule. But it is a rule. Posting a screen shot is abusing the game engine for how the game is played. It is bad enough chatting it. But screen shot is 2 far. Also there is a rule about making the site less enjoyable for others you will be removed (chat rule in chat guidelines) so posting a screen shot has made is less enjoyable for people who play fog. If you dont want fog dont join games with fog and ruin it for players who do.

[waauw]

Wing cannt remember the exact wording of the rule. But it is a rule. Posting a screen shot is abusing the game engine for how the game is played. It is bad enough chatting it. But screen shot is 2 far. Also there is a rule about making the site less enjoyable for others you will be removed (chat rule in chat guidelines) so posting a screen shot has made is less enjoyable for people who play fog. If you dont want fog dont join games with fog and ruin it for players who do.

The word 'enjoyable' is too vague. What's enjoyable for one isn't for another. The only thing that rule accomplishes is underline the moderators/administrators freedom to improvise unilaterally.

[Donelladan]

You can photoshop snapshots. To post them into chat, you have to download them and turn them into url's readable by everyone.
.

This isn't true. See Game 16322278
I post a snap of round 5, everyone can see it. I didn't have to download it anywhere, I put my snap in the game chat that's it.

So it is possible to put a real snap in the game chat, and that one you can't photoshop.