Conquer Club

Accused:

btown80




The accused are suspected of:

Intentional deadbeating.


Game number(s):

Game 15744584

Comments:

btown80 intentionally deadbeated this game Game 15744584.

Proof of the intentional deadbeating :

2015-06-19 19:54:07 - btown80: lol, i'm done. later

He stopped playing after that.


Additional fact.

jacobsgold has been punished for intentional deadbeating here viewtopic.php?f=239&t=213564 after deadbeating round 8 a poly trench speed on feudal epic.
btown80 deadbeated the Game 15744584 on round 8 as well, same setting, poly trench feudal epic.

Let me add that it wasn't demonstrated in the jacobsgold's case that the deadbeating was intentional. In this case it clearly is.

Exact same fact should lead to same judgment.
Of course I am aware that it was the 2nd offense for jacobsgold and it is the first, as far as I know for btown80 so I understand he may only receive a warning.







EDIT : Adding the several examples of intentional deadbeat I listed few posts below.


But since you asked, I'll give more examples.

Game 15801129

2015-07-10 18:46:38 - btown80: lol. i'll just deadbeat now and save mysefl the 20 minutes

This one is actually quite outrageous. btown80 only missed one turn and didn't have the time to deadbeat further, the opponent had objective.
So he actually intent to deadbeat a game that didn't need to be deadbeated.
Because I argued myself in the jacobsgold case that deadbeating shouldn't be an offense for speed trench games since it is faster to deadbeat than to play the game
But on small map or map in which objective is easy to take people should NOT deadbeat but instead should play the game because it can be finished quite faster than deadbeating.
Here clearly, only one more turn was necessary, but regardless, btown80 announced ( intentional ) that he will deadbeat and leave the game.


Game 15744797

This one is very interesting.
In this one btown80 didn't bother announcing to his opponent that he will deadbeat, which was, let me remind, or tell people that didn't read the jacobsgold case, the argumentation of btown80.
btown80 said that it was ok to deadbeat as long as you announce it, and that he was reporting jacobsgold because he didn't announce he was deadbeating.
Here we go, btown80 doing the exact thing he was accusing jacobsgold to do.

Btw, let me say that when btown80 deadbeated this game, he was deploying 20/turn, had 2 castles 2 villages and 40 regions, while his opponent was deploying 29, had 3 castles 2 villages and 50 regions. I'd say he should have try a bit longer to win this game, hardly a completely hopeless situation.
Especially if we consider that at some point, according to the chat, btown80 had 50 regions while his opponent only had 18, and his opponent successfully came back to win the game.

from the chat

2015-06-19 21:09:57 - btown80: Your strategy was terrible. you had 27 territories and I had 55.

After a careful inspection of the log, it was all in btown80 head, reality was 50 regions, the best difference I could find was 50 regions, 3 villages 2 castles for btown, and 36 ( twice more than 18), 1 village 3 castles for the opponent.



Game 15735873

2015-06-16 19:14:58 - btown80: i'll db

Game 15722384

2015-06-11 19:01:43 - btown80: i'll just deadbeat. easier than dying a slow death

Feudal war trench 1vs1 flat rate. btown 80 deploy 20/turn, has 3 castles 1 village, his opponent deploy 22/turn, has 3 castles 2 villages.
I know for a fact I would have try longer to win this game. I think many would have. but btown80 simply deadbeated it, intentionally.



Game 15665704
anoter game in which btown80 did NOT announce he was going to deadbeat, but did take time to complain about the dice of his opponent. Well he said " I am out"


Game 15396765

2015-02-27 19:21:44 - btown80: i'll dead beat. gg

Game 15263658
and another game in which btown80 did NOT announce to his opponent he was going to db.
Plus a coloured game chat, don't read children.

show

He insult his opponent and doesn't have the courtey of announcing he will db.





I am stopping here. We have all kind of deadbeating case here, some he announced, some he didn't, some he might have try harder.

Nothing more fun as a mod than when you have to deal with the tit for tat BS C&A reports...

BGtheBrain wrote:Nothing more fun as a mod than when you have to deal with the tit for tat BS C&A reports...

Based on the jacobsgold ruling this report is just as valid.

iAmCaffeine wrote:

BGtheBrain wrote:Nothing more fun as a mod than when you have to deal with the tit for tat BS C&A reports...

Based on the jacobsgold ruling this report is just as valid.

theyre all fucking valid.... But we now have little kids running to mom and dad to make things fair.... Donell knows better. You know better.

Maybe if you get some time today, you or donell could compose a list of ALL the deadbeats from speed games. While your at it, maybe get all the ratings abusers too.

iAmCaffeine wrote:

BGtheBrain wrote:Nothing more fun as a mod than when you have to deal with the tit for tat BS C&A reports...

Based on the jacobsgold ruling this report is just as valid.

Not quite, Donell needs to show multiple counts of deadbeating, not just one.

He has also made a suggestion which deals with the real issue here in the suggestions forum.

The multiple examples of deadbeating in the jacobsgold case weren't proof.
All other games linked by btown80 in the other case can be explained by jacobsgold losing connection.

If you deadbeat because your connection is lost, or because you have a real life stuff happening preventing you to play ( like someone ring the bell you got to open the door isn't ? or for those os uf playing at work boss coming in your office, got to hide it, or kids fighting each other and you need to intervene, or even more serious stuff was just making very common example, two of them happened to me several times), then it is NOT intentional deadbeating.

Therefore the jacobsgold case only had one valid example of intentional deadbeating - and, may I add, the intentional part wasn't actually proved by btown80, he said jacobsgold was playing at the same time in other game, but didn't prove it by giving link to games and quoting log with time stamp.
In the example mentionned above the intention is obvious because of btown80 comments.


But since you asked, I'll give more examples.

Game 15801129

2015-07-10 18:46:38 - btown80: lol. i'll just deadbeat now and save mysefl the 20 minutes

This one is actually quite outrageous. btown80 only missed one turn and didn't have the time to deadbeat further, the opponent had objective.
So he actually intent to deadbeat a game that didn't need to be deadbeated.
Because I argued myself in the jacobsgold case that deadbeating shouldn't be an offense for speed trench games since it is faster to deadbeat than to play the game
But on small map or map in which objective is easy to take people should NOT deadbeat but instead should play the game because it can be finished quite faster than deadbeating.
Here clearly, only one more turn was necessary, but regardless, btown80 announced ( intentional ) that he will deadbeat and leave the game.


Game 15744797

This one is very interesting.
In this one btown80 didn't bother announcing to his opponent that he will deadbeat, which was, let me remind, or tell people that didn't read the jacobsgold case, the argumentation of btown80.
btown80 said that it was ok to deadbeat as long as you announce it, and that he was reporting jacobsgold because he didn't announce he was deadbeating.
Here we go, btown80 doing the exact thing he was accusing jacobsgold to do.

Btw, let me say that when btown80 deadbeated this game, he was deploying 20/turn, had 2 castles 2 villages and 40 regions, while his opponent was deploying 29, had 3 castles 2 villages and 50 regions. I'd say he should have try a bit longer to win this game, hardly a completely hopeless situation.
Especially if we consider that at some point, according to the chat, btown80 had 50 regions while his opponent only had 18, and his opponent successfully came back to win the game.

from the chat

2015-06-19 21:09:57 - btown80: Your strategy was terrible. you had 27 territories and I had 55.

After a careful inspection of the log, it was all in btown80 head, reality was 50 regions, the best difference I could find was 50 regions, 3 villages 2 castles for btown, and 36 ( twice more than 18), 1 village 3 castles for the opponent.



Game 15735873

2015-06-16 19:14:58 - btown80: i'll db

Game 15722384

2015-06-11 19:01:43 - btown80: i'll just deadbeat. easier than dying a slow death

Feudal war trench 1vs1 flat rate. btown 80 deploy 20/turn, has 3 castles 1 village, his opponent deploy 22/turn, has 3 castles 2 villages.
I know for a fact I would have try longer to win this game. I think many would have. but btown80 simply deadbeated it, intentionally.



Game 15665704
anoter game in which btown80 did NOT announce he was going to deadbeat, but did take time to complain about the dice of his opponent. Well he said " I am out"


Game 15396765

2015-02-27 19:21:44 - btown80: i'll dead beat. gg

Game 15263658
and another game in which btown80 did NOT announce to his opponent he was going to db.
Plus a coloured game chat, don't read children.

show

He insult his opponent and doesn't have the courtey of announcing he will db.





I am stopping here. We have all kind of deadbeating case here, some he announced, some he didn't, some he might have try harder.

BGtheBrain wrote:

iAmCaffeine wrote:

BGtheBrain wrote:Nothing more fun as a mod than when you have to deal with the tit for tat BS C&A reports...

Based on the jacobsgold ruling this report is just as valid.

theyre all fucking valid.... But we now have little kids running to mom and dad to make things fair.... Donell knows better. You know better.

Maybe if you get some time today, you or donell could compose a list of ALL the deadbeats from speed games. While your at it, maybe get all the ratings abusers too.

I rarely have time to make a full report, you know that because I used to regularly PM you when I came across a multi, with rather high success rates too.



Looks like there are multiple cases for btown80 though! I doubt it will lead to witch hunts for anyone that deadbeats a speed trench game, but this idiot is so carried away with throwing rocks from glass houses that it's obviously going to burn.

This is great. I appreciate you doing all this work and not coming up with one example where I deadbeated in the sense of the rule. The "deadbeats" you list are all great examples of where, in a trench game, the game is in hand, and instead of making my opponent sit there for 20 more minutes, I graciously offered to give the game. after weeks of arguing, you still don't understand the difference between jacobsgold and everyone else that plays trench. Please, get a life. After the mods clear me, will you be a man and move on or keep whining like little children?

I've got only one question for you btown80, how do you know that jacobsgold deadbeated your game intentionally ?

Donnelladan, how do you know he didn't?

btown80 wrote:Donnelladan, how do you know he didn't?

You're the one who made the accusation, so burden of proof is on you. See, that's how accusations work. I can't accuse you of stealing from me, and when asked to prove it, simply respond "how do you know he didn't?" Do you see how stupid that is? So try again, real hard this time, and see if you can answer Don's question. Let's see if you can man up and answer a simple adult level question.

Bollocks.

Serbia wrote:

btown80 wrote:Donnelladan, how do you know he didn't?

You're the one who made the accusation, so burden of proof is on you. See, that's how accusations work. I can't accuse you of stealing from me, and when asked to prove it, simply respond "how do you know he didn't?" Do you see how stupid that is? So try again, real hard this time, and see if you can answer Don's question. Let's see if you can man up and answer a simple adult level question.

Bollocks.

Serbia, who are you? You are like a feeder fish, following the Sharks around and feeding on the scraps left behind. Every time the adults are having a conversation, you arrive late and have some worthless piece of information to share. This post is about my "deadbeating." If you'd like to talk about Jacobsgold, go over to that thread, oh wait, IT'S CLOSED ALREADY!!!

btown80 wrote:

Serbia wrote:

btown80 wrote:Donnelladan, how do you know he didn't?

You're the one who made the accusation, so burden of proof is on you. See, that's how accusations work. I can't accuse you of stealing from me, and when asked to prove it, simply respond "how do you know he didn't?" Do you see how stupid that is? So try again, real hard this time, and see if you can answer Don's question. Let's see if you can man up and answer a simple adult level question.

Bollocks.

Serbia, who are you? You are like a feeder fish, following the Sharks around and feeding on the scraps left behind. Every time the adults are having a conversation, you arrive late and have some worthless piece of information to share. This post is about my "deadbeating." If you'd like to talk about Jacobsgold, go over to that thread, oh wait, IT'S CLOSED ALREADY!!!

That's a very poor attempt at both flaming and dodging. When's your 16th birthday brah? Excited for that first driver's license?

On a more serious note, do you understand why Don is asking you this question, and why you got reported? It has everything to do with the jacob report, because they are essentially accusing you of the very thing that got jacob in trouble. I'm sure Don meant this as a serious question, because it DOES pertain to your case. Calm yourself down, and try to understand where he's coming from.

Bollocks.

Serbia wrote:

btown80 wrote:

Serbia wrote:

btown80 wrote:Donnelladan, how do you know he didn't?

You're the one who made the accusation, so burden of proof is on you. See, that's how accusations work. I can't accuse you of stealing from me, and when asked to prove it, simply respond "how do you know he didn't?" Do you see how stupid that is? So try again, real hard this time, and see if you can answer Don's question. Let's see if you can man up and answer a simple adult level question.

Bollocks.

Serbia, who are you? You are like a feeder fish, following the Sharks around and feeding on the scraps left behind. Every time the adults are having a conversation, you arrive late and have some worthless piece of information to share. This post is about my "deadbeating." If you'd like to talk about Jacobsgold, go over to that thread, oh wait, IT'S CLOSED ALREADY!!!

That's a very poor attempt at both flaming and dodging. When's your 16th birthday brah? Excited for that first driver's license?

On a more serious note, do you understand why Don is asking you this question, and why you got reported? It has everything to do with the jacob report, because they are essentially accusing you of the very thing that got jacob in trouble. I'm sure Don meant this as a serious question, because it DOES pertain to your case. Calm yourself down, and try to understand where he's coming from.

Bollocks.

its laughable that you (and don and caffeine) are comparing regular trench players to Jacobsgold. Nothing he did was normal. Don came up with this list of games for me, all where I played out the game to the point where I had exhausted all my resources and had zero chance. Then I announced I was deadbeating, said Gg and moved on. One game I was pissed and didn't announce but the game was still lost. Jacobsgold deadbeats everything. 1st, 2nd, 3rd round, 2player, 3 player,makes no difference. He says nothing and just leaves. If you can't see the difference then I feel sorry for you.

btown - Define Intentional please.

deadbeating is the word in question here. Deadbeating to me is leaving the game in a middle of the fight, quitting, giving up. In a game that is already decided, there cannot by definition be a deadbeat as you can't quit or give up something that is already over.

btown80 wrote:deadbeating is the word in question here. Deadbeating to me is leaving the game in a middle of the fight, quitting, giving up. In a game that is already decided, there cannot by definition be a deadbeat as you can't quit or give up something that is already over.

Except, it's not truly over. Literally over is finished. You just believe (rightly or wrongly, doesn't really matter at the moment) that you are so far behind that you cannot come back.

And for the record, btown, I haven't given my opinion on this at all. I'm not comparing anyone to jacob, but I did inform you that you are being compared to him by others. I think they probably do have a point though, and it seems to be about a grey area on the rules. If one version of deadbeating is going to be acceptable, but others not, then it needs to be more clearly defined. You won't be able to pick up on the subtleties of this, but the differences between what you've been accused of, and what jacob was accused of, is rather subjective and to a certain extent comes down to opinion. Which as I read it is one of the main points of the accusation against you.

Bollocks.

Isn't DB trench games common place now? I thought that's why people had lower turn % and what not, and was / is widely practiced? Or was that speed trench only?

https://www.conquerclub.com/public.php? ... tructions6

deadbeating is missing 3 turns

IcePack wrote:Isn't DB trench games common place now? I thought that's why people had lower turn % and what not, and was / is widely practiced? Or was that speed trench only?

It is common place, when the game is in hand, the losing side deadbeat to save time. Don, caffeine, and Serbia are all upset that their friend got a month ban for deadbeating every game, so they opened this thread as retaliation against me. It's quite childish and pathetic.

Serbia wrote:

btown80 wrote:deadbeating is the word in question here. Deadbeating to me is leaving the game in a middle of the fight, quitting, giving up. In a game that is already decided, there cannot by definition be a deadbeat as you can't quit or give up something that is already over.

I think they probably do have a point though, and it seems to be about a grey area on the rules. If one version of deadbeating is going to be acceptable, but others not, then it needs to be more clearly defined. You won't be able to pick up on the subtleties of this, but the differences between what you've been accused of, and what jacob was accused of, is rather subjective and to a certain extent comes down to opinion. Which as I read it is one of the main points of the accusation against you.

Bollocks.

Or we could be adults about it. Take speed limits as an example, speed limit is 55, does that mean everyone going over 55 should be ticketed? Or is there a grey area (10 over speed limit for example) do we need further explanation on the law or do we just go about our lives knowing there is a grey area? Being an adult means not needing every law/rule defined black and white. It's called common sense and perhaps that is what you are lacking.

Everyone going over the speed limit should be ticketed. The speed limit is not arbitrary. It is based on the road layout, visibility distances, corner curvatures, camber, strength of safety barriers, junctions etc.

Unfortunately the police dont have the resources to do so. Likewise the mods dont have the resources to catch all deadbeaters. But dont expect to go unnoticed if you report someone else and expect action.

IcePack wrote:Isn't DB trench games common place now? I thought that's why people had lower turn % and what not, and was / is widely practiced? Or was that speed trench only?

Icepack think it's done more in speed games. Because if casual games and you have a freemium player in it, would it not also bring up a offense of holding hostage, as it would make it a minimum of 72 hours until the game is over. Preventing them from joining another game?

btown80 wrote:Or we could be adults about it. Take speed limits as an example, speed limit is 55, does that mean everyone going over 55 should be ticketed? Or is there a grey area (10 over speed limit for example) do we need further explanation on the law or do we just go about our lives knowing there is a grey area? Being an adult means not needing every law/rule defined black and white. It's called common sense and perhaps that is what you are lacking.

You wanna be an adult, then stop your childish name calling. I'm not the one accusing you of anything other than immaturity and acting like an idiot. If you are going 56 miles an hour in a 55 zone, damn right they can ticket you for speeding. Would I call that bullshit? Sure would, but they'd be within their rights to. Your example is illogical and not a reasonable comparison.

And you really need to learn to read. I've stated in this very thread that I'm not accusing you of anything. Can you get that through your head? Do you understand English? Grow up, kid.

Bollocks.

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:Everyone going over the speed limit should be ticketed. The speed limit is not arbitrary. It is based on the road layout, visibility distances, corner curvatures, camber, strength of safety barriers, junctions etc.

Unfortunately the police dont have the resources to do so. Likewise the mods dont have the resources to catch all deadbeaters. But dont expect to go unnoticed if you report someone else and expect action.

That's quite possible the dumbest thing I've ever heard. So the police should be ticketing themselves then?

Jacobsgold was intentionally deadbeating ganes that were just starting. I started the thread, and caffeine even agreed with me that he should get a 30 day ban. Jacobsgold gets a vacation and his little buddies single me out (and my 9 trench games) and say I'm just as guilty which is quite laughable.