Conquer Club

Accused:

NCachulo


The accused are suspected of: Bigotry


Game number(s):

Game 11349911


Comments: For being Norwegian related to Breivik's mass murdering of innocent kids and youths.

Team log:

2012-07-08 11:43:49 - lt. Futt [team]: fort NY from Reykjavik?
2012-07-08 11:47:41 - NCachulo [team]: go
2012-07-08 11:47:43 - NCachulo [team]: god
2012-07-08 11:47:51 - NCachulo [team]: what happened to the troops
2012-07-08 11:48:17 - lt. Futt [team]: fort NY from Reykjavik
2012-07-08 11:49:01 - lt. Futt [team]: reykjavik is burried
2012-07-08 11:51:15 - lt. Futt [team]: freaking use Beijing. that's why we fort eachother troops
2012-07-08 11:51:42 - NCachulo [team]: to what asshole?
2012-07-08 11:51:53 - NCachulo [team]: u were fucking crazy about iceland
2012-07-08 11:52:04 - NCachulo [team]: why da f*ck should i lose my troops in beijing attacking in fucking russia
2012-07-08 11:52:16 - NCachulo [team]: shut the f*ck up and stop fucking losing my reinforcments
2012-07-08 11:52:35 - NCachulo [team]: u dont fucking know what fucking happened to the bunch of men i gave u in aussie and dakar
2012-07-08 11:52:42 - NCachulo [team]: plase shut the f*ck up
2012-07-08 11:52:55 - NCachulo [team]: fucking breivik shit
2012-07-08 11:53:22 - NCachulo [team]: go shot inoccents
2012-07-08 11:53:44 - lt. Futt [team]: I gonna file a C&A report on you.
2012-07-08 11:54:03 - lt. Futt [team]: See if you can defend your BS.
2012-07-08 11:54:17 - NCachulo: yeah cry baby
2012-07-08 11:54:20 - NCachulo [team]: go for it
2012-07-08 11:54:35 - NCachulo [team]: if u cant handle dont start it
2012-07-08 11:55:23 - lt. Futt [team]: too late for you
2012-07-08 11:55:53 - NCachulo [team]: to late for what?
2012-07-08 11:55:55 - NCachulo [team]: lolool
2012-07-08 11:55:58 - NCachulo [team]: to late for what?
2012-07-08 12:14:07 - braveboy: gg
2012-07-08 12:15:09 - GeneralRisk: gg


I don't know what he mean with:

2012-07-08 11:54:35 - NCachulo [team]: if u cant handle dont start it

Got to ask him.

what he said may be offensive (i'm Norwegian btw) but it isn't bigotry

ubcman64 wrote:what he said may be offensive (i'm Norwegian btw) but it isn't bigotry

Breivik Norwegian. I'm Norwegian. Breivik shit. Go shot inncent..

The attitude is bigotry; This is what Norwegian's do.

The insults is just another stage of the national tragedy.

lt. Futt wrote:

ubcman64 wrote:what he said may be offensive (i'm Norwegian btw) but it isn't bigotry

Breivik Norwegian. I'm Norwegian. Breivik shit. Go shot inncent..

The attitude is bigotry; This is what Norwegian's do.

The insults is just another stage of the national tragedy.

I see that u are upset about the tragedy that happened in your country. If someone called me John Wayne Gacy or Charles Manson or Ted Bundy or Jeffery Dahmer in game chat and since I am a American, would u consider that to be bigotry? I know I would not.

Yeah, I'm not sure there's bigotry here ...

I believe that he referred to you as Breivik. He didn't say anything about race, nationality, gender, etc. What does it even matter what nationality that person is? If I called someone Hitler, would it be considered bigotry? Or only bigotry if the person I called Hitler happened to be German? That seems like a rather odd result.

agentcom wrote:Yeah, I'm not sure there's bigotry here ...

I believe that he referred to you as Breivik. He didn't say anything about race, nationality, gender, etc. What does it even matter what nationality that person is? If I called someone Hitler, would it be considered bigotry? Or only bigotry if the person I called Hitler happened to be German? That seems like a rather odd result.

As long this site has rules. As long there are somewhere to adress my issue, I will ask them to take a look.

I know very much about between-human communication. Your interpretation is just that. On contrary I do have mine. I don't have a good definition for bigotry. He wrote me a PM and did apologize for the harsh insults. He wanted to make me angry, he said. Why should I care about Breivik mass muder innocent kids and youths. Simply because I'm Norwegian. Just as Breivik. The bigotry is that's what Norwegians do. We all mass murder innocent kids and youths. Not true. This is bigotry the way I understand it.

GeneralRisk wrote:

lt. Futt wrote:

ubcman64 wrote:what he said may be offensive (i'm Norwegian btw) but it isn't bigotry

Breivik Norwegian. I'm Norwegian. Breivik shit. Go shot inncent..

The attitude is bigotry; This is what Norwegian's do.

The insults is just another stage of the national tragedy.

I see that u are upset about the tragedy that happened in your country. If someone called me John Wayne Gacy or Charles Manson or Ted Bundy or Jeffery Dahmer in game chat and since I am a American, would u consider that to be bigotry? I know I would not.

I don't recognize the names you drop here. Transfered to US conditions Breivik would have shot 5000 people. Columbine Tech: 24 victims. 9.11: 3000 victims.

Why just leave the subject? And I won't open a file cause I'm gonna fight such attitude. Mass mudering is autentic. No video game. No fantasy.

I don't know how upset I am about the Norway mass mudering. It's not me that focus the topic. I'm playing dubs and suddenly my teammate start attacking me with Breivik and later apologize. It's a free world. Anyone can have pc and internet.

agentcom wrote:Yeah, I'm not sure there's bigotry here ...

I believe that he referred to you as Breivik. He didn't say anything about race, nationality, gender, etc. What does it even matter what nationality that person is? If I called someone Hitler, would it be considered bigotry? Or only bigotry if the person I called Hitler happened to be German? That seems like a rather odd result.

Bad example agent,Hitler is definitely associated with white supremacy,i.e, there are white people everywhere that follow the doctrines he set out.

So probably calling someone hitler whether they are german or not, might bring some heat. p.s. he was austrian actually if I remember my history correctly.

The point I am making with this is that, I understand why futt is upset and to him it is an insult of the first degree to be referred to as Breivik, If you use associations such as hitler and what he was about.

Not sure if I explained what I meant there for everyone to understand.

jgordon1111 wrote:

agentcom wrote:Yeah, I'm not sure there's bigotry here ...

I believe that he referred to you as Breivik. He didn't say anything about race, nationality, gender, etc. What does it even matter what nationality that person is? If I called someone Hitler, would it be considered bigotry? Or only bigotry if the person I called Hitler happened to be German? That seems like a rather odd result.

Bad example agent,Hitler is definitely associated with white supremacy,i.e, there are white people everywhere that follow the doctrines he set out.

So probably calling someone hitler whether they are german or not, might bring some heat. p.s. he was austrian actually if I remember my history correctly.

The point I am making with this is that, I understand why futt is upset and to him it is an insult of the first degree to be referred to as Breivik, If you use associations such as hitler and what he was about.

Not sure if I explained what I meant there for everyone to understand.

My interpretation is that Norwegians are Breivik shit and all Norwegians mass murder innocent children and youths. "Go shot incidents" or what ever he wrote. If I wasn't Norwegian, I wouldn't mind what he said. His aim was make me angry. Well, he got what he wanted. But most of all I think it's sad for him.

Based on what Ive read and the discussion here, Im not sure that this is bigotry. Ill keep looking over it before I make a final decision, but I just dont see it in this case. I can agree that the chat is in poor taste though.

BGtheBrain wrote:Based on what Ive read and the discussion here, Im not sure that this is bigotry. Ill keep looking over it before I make a final decision, but I just dont see it in this case. I can agree that the chat is in poor taste though.

Death sentence is out of question. Warn him and fight such attitude. If he already has a warning then he might need a vacation. He might have trouble to control his anger. Give him a lesson, maybe he learn to control his anger.

In my opinion this is bigotry cause what he says is that all/random Norwegians mass murder children and youths. I guess this is not popular in CC's Norwegian camp.

I might take this to the Norwegian Forum and discuss it.

But he never says all Norwegians. He says you are.

But I do think the Norwegian forums I put would be good in this case.

BGtheBrain wrote:But he never says all Norwegians. He says you are.

But I do think the Norwegian forums I put would be good in this case.

I dont see what the difference is between the 2 cases?

viewtopic.php?f=239&t=173836&p=3798906#p3798906

2012-07-08 11:52:55 - NCachulo [team]: fucking breivik shit
2012-07-08 11:53:22 - NCachulo [team]: go shot inoccents

I would agree this is an awful, awful thing to say to someone. But he does not use the term Norwegian, like in the previous case. So he is just comparing you to a mass murdering psycho, so I don't think it can be classed as bigotry. Tough one to call.

BGtheBrain wrote:But he never says all Norwegians. He says you are.

But I do think the Norwegian forums I put would be good in this case.

In my opinion it's bigotry anyway. I'm a random Norwegian. Could been some else Norwegian's. Some like to insult Norwegians for Breivik's mass murdering of innocent children and youths.

Remember Breivik victims are from every region in this small country. Lot's of Norwegians knows some victims, and most important, maybe some relatives may be hit of such attitude. Please fight it! Else Norwegians may be law less. He won't have death sentence. No matter of life and death. Just show zero tolerance. Don't push the limits. Maybe he realize that such statements won't be tolerated as long as we have somewhere to adress violance on the rules. How much lower than this can we possibly sink?
If I go to Portugal and meet such attitude, I have nowhere to adress the insults. But that's somehow alright.

Nicky15 wrote:

2012-07-08 11:52:55 - NCachulo [team]: fucking breivik shit
2012-07-08 11:53:22 - NCachulo [team]: go shot inoccents

I would agree this is an awful, awful thing to say to someone. But he does not use the term Norwegian, like in the previous case. So he is just comparing you to a mass murdering psycho, so I don't think it can be classed as bigotry. Tough one to call.

Of course he knew I was Norwegian. Not hard to find out.

hmsps wrote:

BGtheBrain wrote:But he never says all Norwegians. He says you are.

But I do think the Norwegian forums I put would be good in this case.

I dont see what the difference is between the 2 cases?

viewtopic.php?f=239&t=173836&p=3798906#p3798906

The other case calls all norwegians assholes, and more importantly says its too bad Breivik didnt shoot all of them.

2012-06-30 23:57:33 - Draq [team]: wow you´re an asshole like all the norweigian, to bad Breivik didnt shot you all

The bigotry guidelines says
"Bigotry includes racism, sexism, ageism, homophobia/sexual orientation bashing, religion bashing, lack of religion bashing, or wishing violence on any group of people, etc."

In this case, he calls 1 specific player a "fucking breivik shit" and tells him to go shoot an innocent.

Case 1: Wishes all norwegians were shot
Case 2: Tells lt. Futt to go shoot innocents (doesnt specify a group of people, just merely people who are innocent)

I see where lt. Futt is coming from, I just think that in this specific example, the insult was in poor taste, but not bigotry.

BGtheBrain wrote:

hmsps wrote:

BGtheBrain wrote:But he never says all Norwegians. He says you are.

But I do think the Norwegian forums I put would be good in this case.

I dont see what the difference is between the 2 cases?

viewtopic.php?f=239&t=173836&p=3798906#p3798906

The other case calls all norwegians assholes, and more importantly says its too bad Breivik didnt shoot all of them.

2012-06-30 23:57:33 - Draq [team]: wow you´re an asshole like all the norweigian, to bad Breivik didnt shot you all

The bigotry guidelines says
"Bigotry includes racism, sexism, ageism, homophobia/sexual orientation bashing, religion bashing, lack of religion bashing, or wishing violence on any group of people, etc."

In this case, he calls 1 specific player a "fucking breivik shit" and tells him to go shoot an innocent.

Case 1: Wishes all norwegians were shot
Case 2: Tells lt. Futt to go shoot innocents (doesnt specify a group of people, just merely people who are innocent)

I see where lt. Futt is coming from, I just think that in this specific example, the insult was in poor taste, but not bigotry.

Between-human communicate are both implicit and explicit. If someone give you the car key and says the car need fuel, it's not explicit said "here are the car keys, will you please drive to the gas station and fill gas". Implicit is a whole lot even in the sentence. We can't say it all explicit. Probably it'd be something like: "here are the car keys, will you please take the car and drive to the gas station and pay for the cas and fill gas in the cars tank, and come back here." What's not said we got to fill in. Cause we state both explicit and implicit.

NCachulo statement implict that random Norwegians mass murder innocent children and youths. The only common random Norwegians have with mass killer Breivik is that we're Norwegians. NCachula says random Norwegians potentially mass murder innocent children and youths. This is bigotry because I, as Norwegian, do not mass murder innocent children and youths.

"Bigotry includes racism, sexism, ageism, homophobia/sexual orientation bashing, religion bashing, lack of religion bashing, or wishing violence on any group of people, etc."

The implicit "etc" may cover NCachulo's statement. We're randomly Norwegians as group but we/I do not, like NCachulo implict (or isn't it explicit) shoot innocents (implicit children and youths) (plural), states. This is what NCachulo implicit says based on his bigotry on random Norwegians as a group. It's bigotry against random Norwegians. Not true what NCachulo implict. But we may fill in "(random) Norwegians shoot innocent children and youths."

lt. Futt wrote:
NCachulo statement implict that random Norwegians mass murder innocent children and youths.

Hmmm ... that certainly wasn't my first take. I guess I can see where you're coming from, but that's not what I thought he was saying.

Interesting question that should arrive at the same result: If a person told a German to "go back to your job at the Auschwitz incinerator" would that be considered a violation? I don't think it should be, but I'm not sure whether it would be.

agentcom wrote:

lt. Futt wrote:
NCachulo statement implict that random Norwegians mass murder innocent children and youths.

Hmmm ... that certainly wasn't my first take. I guess I can see where you're coming from, but that's not what I thought he was saying.

Interesting question that should arrive at the same result: If a person told a German to "go back to your job at the Auschwitz incinerator" would that be considered a violation? I don't think it should be, but I'm not sure whether it would be.

It speak for itselves.

However, as I am sure you will know It.Futt, the problem with implicit communication is that it is always open to interpretation and the party of first part can always claim that is not what they meant. So it seems the real question is the level of proof required ie. beyond a reasonable doubt or preponderance of evidence. And that is apparently at the discretion of the mods.

puppydog85 wrote:However, as I am sure you will know It.Futt, the problem with implicit communication is that it is always open to interpretation and the party of first part can always claim that is not what they meant. So it seems the real question is the level of proof required ie. beyond a reasonable doubt or preponderance of evidence. And that is apparently at the discretion of the mods.

I'm curious as to how much more evidence he needs, this is obviously bigotry. The problem wasn't calling him a mass murderer (Which is the same as calling me by an American mass murderer), the problem was that he was implying an action, to "shoot innocents." Anyone can name call, but i perceived this as a racial slander.

puppydog85 wrote:However, as I am sure you will know It.Futt, the problem with implicit communication is that it is always open to interpretation and the party of first part can always claim that is not what they meant. So it seems the real question is the level of proof required ie. beyond a reasonable doubt or preponderance of evidence. And that is apparently at the discretion of the mods.

Interpretation is no excercise. There are no other way to understand the world than interpret from our perceptions. We interpret from speach, from our skin, our hearing, sight and smell.

In interaction with others the sender do not own the truth alone wether we are authors, painters, photographers, all sorts of between-human communication. NCachulo doesn't own the truth. He may lie or be ironic. He doesn't even bother defend himself. The truth is subjective and is called consensus which means the majority think is reasonable.

There are conspiracy about 9/11 wether it was US military planes that hit WTC but consensus, what the majority (of competents) find reasonable, is that it was Am Airliners. Courage also play a role. Sometimes we got to show balls of steel.

lt. Futt wrote:The truth is subjective and is called consensus which means the majority think is reasonable.

I went to multiple people, from all over the website, and from all different countries. The general consensus on this case what was said was not bigotry, but was worthy of being noted.

NCachulo has been NOTED for bigotry.

BGtheBrain wrote:

lt. Futt wrote:The truth is subjective and is called consensus which means the majority think is reasonable.

I went to multiple people, from all over the website, and from all different countries. The general consensus on this case what was said was not bigotry, but was worthy of being noted.

NCachulo has been NOTED for bigotry.

How can THIS CASE: viewtopic.php?f=239&t=174283 be cyber harrassment and THIS ONE just be "noted" ?????????

probably because this one is about a captain
and the other involves the "all mighty" conquer