Conquer Club

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:28 am**

Accused:

freakns

The accused are suspected of:

offensive avatar

Comments:

i have received warning from one of the moderators to remove my avatar because it is offensive. now, i dont mind changing it if its such a violation of rules, but id like to know what exactly i did wrong. ive tried to explain myself to him, but he either didnt listen or didnt hear what ive said. so id like to ask explanation why is my avatar violation of rules?!
he said its because swastikas in there. now, yes, there are swastikas in there, but they are in flames, burning down!!! im thinking there is slight difference between burning a symbol and admiring one?! or im somehow missing a point?! unlike moderator who accused me of being some kind of nazi, i wasnt born in US, but in Europe, and my family have vivid memory of what has happen in WWII. two of my fathers brothers have died defending their country against germans, my grandfather from mother side spend his youth in concentration camp while his brother was thrown in Danube, under the ice, by hungarian nazi... so every insinuation that id support any form of nazism is ridiculous.
also, my avatar is movie poster from TV show Otpisani, which is story about resistance members who were fighting against germans in Belgrade during WW II...

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:36 am**

your avatar is symbol of resistance from Nazi repression to the Yugoslav people, 7%(over 1 mil) of Yugoslav people died because of the repression... You honor them by wearing your avatar.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:10 am**

I made this for you

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:16 am**

GoranZ wrote:your avatar is symbol of resistance from Nazi repression to the Yugoslav people, 7%(over 1 mil) of Yugoslav people died because of the repression... You honor them by wearing your avatar.

+ 1 It is about resistance of the nazi's not glorifing them, to have to take it down seem's like to say nazi's were bad is wrong.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:42 am**

Just want everyone to know that I'm not condoning nazism. I too had two grandfathers that fought in the American Army in WWII against the Nazis. However, even if the swastika was for "pro-nazi" reasons you should be allowed to keep it. You should be allowed to associate yourself however you want. If someone does not like it they can foe you and just chose to ignore you. It is true that the swastika may invoke many emotional responses from people, but in modern society it is impossible to completely avoid every instance of hatred and bigotry.

I can understand how many people would misinterpret it as such, but even so it should not limit you from posting your beliefs. The fact that you have a very symbolic and anti-nazi meaning behind it is very admirable. I think the moderator should accept your explanation for it and issue a sincere apology.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:47 am**

freakns wrote:Accused:

freakns

The accused are suspected of:

offensive avatar

Comments:

i have received warning from one of the moderators to remove my avatar because it is offensive. now, i dont mind changing it if its such a violation of rules, but id like to know what exactly i did wrong. ive tried to explain myself to him, but he either didnt listen or didnt hear what ive said. so id like to ask explanation why is my avatar violation of rules?!
he said its because swastikas in there. now, yes, there are swastikas in there, but they are in flames, burning down!!! im thinking there is slight difference between burning a symbol and admiring one?! or im somehow missing a point?! unlike moderator who accused me of being some kind of nazi, i wasnt born in US, but in Europe, and my family have vivid memory of what has happen in WWII. two of my fathers brothers have died defending their country against germans, my grandfather from mother side spend his youth in concentration camp while his brother was thrown in Danube, under the ice, by hungarian nazi... so every insinuation that id support any form of nazism is ridiculous.
also, my avatar is movie poster from TV show Otpisani, which is story about resistance members who were fighting against germans in Belgrade during WW II...

I tend to agree with freakns. This signature is in no way offensive. I will deliberately gather together a coalition of people willing to wear his avatar, if this case is ruled arbitrarily. It's a historical symbol against Nazism and repression. I can understand not using it in a map, but when it's burning in a WWII avatar depicting resistance? Or if it's a shoulder patch on a German soldier in a Regiment avatar? Does that mean we can't use any WWII screencaps? Nothing from the great movie Operation Valkyrie? Or Saving Private Ryan?

That said, it would be entirely different if the avatar was a great Swastika with the words "Heil Hitler!" Emblazoned over the front.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:50 am**

General Brock II wrote:I will deliberately gather together a coalition of people willing to wear his avatar, if this case is ruled arbitrarily.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:56 am**

BGtheBrain wrote:I made this for you

Put the iron cross, or better yet the Greek cross, in place of the swastika.. That should satisfy all parties and mobs and street thugs and protestors.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:03 am**

Also here is a previous case where the user was forced to change it.
There is precedent for this.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=97754&start=0

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:13 am**

first of all, ty all for understanding

@JefJef, im orthodox christian, why on earth would i wear avatar that has greek cross burned down?!

@BGtheBrain, i will not use your version because it makes no sense what so ever. as i said, i will gladly remove my avatar when someone explains to me how it glorifies nazism and how would it offend anyone?!

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:19 am**

Freak - The image does not have to glorify nazism to be offensive. The image of the swastika itself can and does offend some people.

Considering Conquer Club does not allow the image in maps, even in a historical context, why would you think you are an exception to the rule?

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:21 am**

This is clearly a waste of time and space, if the swastika is banned, what's next? the confederate flag? History is written by the winners. the jolly roger couldn't be far behind, it wasn't exactly a symbol of the establishment. if the German symbol is banned, i'd also push for the rising sun (Japanese symbol) to be banned as well. the Japanese were brutal as well, and killed many innocent's in Asia.
Forrest Gump: Now when I was a baby, Mama named me after the great Civil War hero General Nathan Bedford Forrest. She said we was related to him in some way. What he did was he started up this club called the Ku Klux Klan. from the script of Forrest Gump, the Political correct police could go after that one too.
The Brethren, aren't allowed to show nipples on mermaids,? I didn't know there were mermaids without nipples.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:35 am**

BGtheBrain wrote:Freak - The image does not have to glorify nazism to be offensive. The image of the swastika itself can and does offend some people.

Considering Conquer Club does not allow the image in maps, even in a historical context, why would you think you are an exception to the rule?

i dont think i am or should be exception to the rule. but saying that image of swastika in context it is in my avatar would offend someone is just ridiculous. swastika is not allowed not because its design doesnt suit CC, its not allowed because of what it symbolize. my avatar is symbol of fight against nazism. as Goran said, it is honoring more then 1milion ppl from Yugoslavia who died defending their country. when whole Europe(outside of Britain and Russia) was under nazi boot, when Yugoslav government surrender themself to nazi, only one day later ppl of Yugoslavia went out on streets, shouting "bolje rat nego pakt, bolje grob nego rob"(better war then pact, better grave then slave)... less then 2 months after occupation of Yugoslavia we already have part of country free and out of nazi reach!(called Republic of Uzice, which is first part of Europe liberated from nazi) this avatar represent ppl who done those things, so i really dont see how it is offensive to anyone but nazi... and i really dont care if they are offended.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:42 am**

You can illustrate the fight against nazism without a swastika, can you not?

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:43 am**

BGtheBrain wrote:Freak - The image does not have to glorify nazism to be offensive. The image of the swastika itself can and does offend some people.

Considering Conquer Club does not allow the image in maps, even in a historical context, why would you think you are an exception to the rule?

btw: Look at WWII Ardennes map.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:45 am**

jefjef wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:Freak - The image does not have to glorify nazism to be offensive. The image of the swastika itself can and does offend some people.

Considering Conquer Club does not allow the image in maps, even in a historical context, why would you think you are an exception to the rule?

btw: Look at WWII Ardennes map.

I stand corrected...

My apologies on that one.

My position still stands though (and now I have to dig through the forum to see why that one can have it but Schloss cant)

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:46 am**

BGtheBrain wrote:Freak - The image does not have to glorify nazism to be offensive. The image of the swastika itself can and does offend some people.

Considering Conquer Club does not allow the image in maps, even in a historical context, why would you think you are an exception to the rule?

There are so many usernames, images, and banners on CC that depict, promote or in some way glorify death, violence, and warfare. Even some mods/admins have such usernames, images and banners. Any person who may be a victim of violence or warfare, could find it offensive. The swastika, to many people, is a symbol of violence, warfare, hatred, bigotry, etc. Rightfully so, they could find it offensive.

It is not the individual member's duty to make sure that every part of their conduct, appearance, mannerisms conform with everyone else's definition of what is and is not offensive. Now if someone were to take the swastika and wave in the face of someone they KNEW would find it offensive, you have an entirely different case.

Instead you simply have a user identifying themselves with a cause, not going out and seeking to offend or disturb people. On top of that it is a cause that is being misinterpreted here.
He's proud of his heritage and has every right to be. He should be allowed to keep his image and the mod should have to apologize for the inconvenience.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:58 am**

Also the precedent you cited is distinguishable: viewtopic.php?f=239&t=97754&start=0

There the offender was previously accused of making racist remarks. So you can make the clear argument that his symbol was meant to specifically offend people.

Also you asked whether there are alternative ways to show anti-nazism other than a burning swastika? I find it hard to convey the same message without it. You could put up a burning picture of Hitler, German map, Iron Cross, etc., but people could find and misinterpret the use of those images just as offensive. Without actually using the symbol or a like symbol, the entire message is lost.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:15 am**

i am actually surprised that freakns has not been brought up on this before now i seen this avi during our war optinasi's first and warned him it was in breach of site rules... if any of you want a case to link the nzi symbol with a site ban look up hahaha3hahaha or something like that he recieved a site ban for posting a image of it if i remember correctly. as for ww2 adrennes i think we will be seeing a change to that map soon it is proberly there as a oversite. because if i remember correct was the ww2 poland map not refused a stamp at 1 point because it had the symbol on it.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:03 pm**

Two things re: the symbolism of a burning swastika:

1. Like freak has explained it's an anti-Nazi symbol. It would be foolish,offensive and fully counter-effective to use a rule that is supposed to ban a Nazi symbol to ban an anti-Nazi symbol.

2. The precedent quoted really does not apply. There the guy was using the Nazi symbol as a comment on capitalism, ie in a way that was neutral toward the Nazi symbol. This case is about an anti-Nazi symbol.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:08 pm**

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:37 pm**

Do people really just get a kick out of being babies. You complain about this but not all the other avatars.
Good point Gallent.

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:00 pm**

While we're in the business of changing maps - WWII Europe has the iron cross and slightly covered up swastiki. Might as well change that too so everything is consistent. (sarcasm).

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:13 pm**

Wow, this is the daftest thing I've ever read (up until I followed the link to the 'precedent case'). A miniscule little swastika on a tiny avatar has been deemed offensive? By whom?

Let's be realistic here. i) you can't (and shouldn't) ignore history, just as alluded to in White Buffalo's last sentence; and more importantly ii) it's not even glorifying Nazism. On the contrary freakns' avi is symbolic of the struggle against it.

This is a frivolous C&A report and the OP should be euthanised.

Oh wait....

Posted: **Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:17 pm**

Who is this avatar offensive to? Nazi's? :-s

Morons.

freakns wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:Freak - The image does not have to glorify nazism to be offensive. The image of the swastika itself can and does offend some people.

Considering Conquer Club does not allow the image in maps, even in a historical context, why would you think you are an exception to the rule?

i dont think i am or should be exception to the rule. but saying that image of swastika in context it is in my avatar would offend someone is just ridiculous. swastika is not allowed not because its design doesnt suit CC, its not allowed because of what it symbolize. my avatar is symbol of fight against nazism. as Goran said, it is honoring more then 1milion ppl from Yugoslavia who died defending their country. when whole Europe(outside of Britain and Russia) was under nazi boot, when Yugoslav government surrender themself to nazi, only one day later ppl of Yugoslavia went out on streets, shouting "bolje rat nego pakt, bolje grob nego rob"(better war then pact, better grave then slave)... less then 2 months after occupation of Yugoslavia we already have part of country free and out of nazi reach!(called Republic of Uzice, which is first part of Europe liberated from nazi) this avatar represent ppl who done those things, so i really dont see how it is offensive to anyone but nazi... and i really dont care if they are offended.

Awesome story.

Conquer Club

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