Conquer Club

Re: SkyCaptain & Kid_A

These are suspected/undeclared secret alliance involving SkyCaptain winning for Kid_A.

Suspect users: SkyCaptain & Kid_A

Game(s):
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=294619
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=272334

Comments:
In assassin game 294619 below, other players from the game and I shared the same suspicions that Kid_A and SkyCaptain have a secret alliance to win for Kid_A.

I wrote to resitnecdan, the organizer and fellow player asking him to look into the matter below and was requested to post it in the cheating forums for further action by the relevant authorities.

It was strange that SkyCaptain would win the game for Kid_A as explained below

Winner: Kid_A because SkyCaptain eliminated Kid_A’s target, turkeyvball34.
(http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=294619)

In our oceania game, Kid_A had only 1s in Darwin, Arnhem Land, Hobart and a 3 in Melbourne and was not in a position to eliminate his target, turkeyvball34. Because Kid_A could not reach Nullarbor or Perth, SkyCaptain eliminated turkeyvball34 for Kid_A which resulted in Kid_A winning automatically below:
2007-04-02 17:40:03 - SkyCaptain receives 3 armies for 4 territories
2007-04-02 17:40:06 - SkyCaptain cashed in a set of Arnhem Land, Rockhampton, and Cape York worth 12 armies
2007-04-02 17:40:32 - SkyCaptain deployed 15 armies on Kalgoorlie
2007-04-02 17:40:36 - SkyCaptain attacked Nullarbor from Kalgoorlie and conquered it from turkeyvball34
2007-04-02 17:40:39 - SkyCaptain attacked Perth from Nullarbor and conquered it from turkeyvball34
2007-04-02 17:40:39 - SkyCaptain eliminated turkeyvball34 from the game
2007-04-02 17:40:39 - Kid_A won the game

Furthermore, that was not all based on another game below (from the same Elite Tournament). In the europe assassin game below, SkyCaptain attacked Da Bears for Kid_A so that Kid_A can win.

Winner Kid_A with help from SkyCaptain
(http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=272334)

I produce the game log for your reference:
2007-03-13 21:15:09 - SkyCaptain receives 4 armies for 12 territories
2007-03-13 21:15:18 - SkyCaptain deployed 4 armies on Hungary
2007-03-13 21:15:22 - SkyCaptain attacked Slovakia from Hungary and conquered it from DA BEARS
2007-03-13 21:15:28 - SkyCaptain attacked East Germany from Slovakia and conquered it from DA BEARS
2007-03-13 21:17:37 - SkyCaptain gets a card

Looking at the game above, there was also no way Kid_A can reach Slovakia & E. Germany so SkyCaptain's attacked them for him.

Based on the above 2 games, it is highly possible that they may be working together.

I hope that the matter can be investigated to safeguard the reputation of future elite games from being tarnished by questionable players with suspected secret alliances like Kid_A and SkyCaptain.

Thanks, Roadwarrior

Have you taken into account that Sky Captain just might not know how to play assassin? It's happened quite a bit since that game type came out.

in the game it does seem pretty fishy that sky killed me when it was obvise that kid was trying to kill me. also he would know how to play he is at a high enough rank that if would be pretty hard for him not know how to play assassin

I was in the aforementioned Australia game, and the whole thing seemed a bit fishy. Either SkyCaptain made a breathtakingly noobish mistake (by going after the wrong player), or there was something else going on.

I hope it's the former, because I've played with both SkyCaptain and Kid_A and found them to be honorable opponents, but like I said, the way the game ended felt weird.

wicked wrote:Have you taken into account that Sky Captain just might not know how to play assassin? It's happened quite a bit since that game type came out.

True, but skycaptain has played over 15 assassin games, most against quality opposition, so any 'I didn't realize that's how the game was played' defense will ring a bit hollow.

High rank does not necessarily mean they know how to play assassin. I had a major take me out in a game where I wasn't his target. I'd be curious to look through his other assassin games to see what shows up.

Wicked,

Thanks for investigating and I do not make the report lightly and in fact I checked to see if there are other games to see if something similar happened before making the report.

In this case, I found the assassin game from the same Elite Tournament below which I also reported since Kid_A won as a result of some help from SkyCaptain.

Winner Kid_A with help from SkyCaptain
(http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=272334)

Roadwarrior

wicked wrote:High rank does not necessarily mean they know how to play assassin. I had a major take me out in a game where I wasn't his target. I'd be curious to look through his other assassin games to see what shows up.

True, but I had a look at some of his other mafia games, and the game chaat tends to support the fact that skycaptain knows what he's doing:

Game272331:
2007-03-12 10:26:52 - SkyCaptain: Hey cyan, I know red isn't your guy, but if you let him hold ireland for free, he'll just kill his person.

Game 264447:
2007-03-16 10:54:18 - SkyCaptain: Lol, whoever has blue as their target better pick up the pace.

I'm sure there are a couple of others, but I only had time to take a sampling...

Incandenza wrote:True, but I had a look at some of his other mafia games

Until we have a chance to look at this, feel free to leave feedback.

wicked wrote:

Incandenza wrote:True, but I had a look at some of his other mafia games

aw jeez...

The problem is that not only do assassin games have a funky mafia vibe to them, but I'm also playing everywhere116's 'Assassin Mafia Game'...

I understand why the other players from this game are suspicious.
But this makes me angry because of how much I hate cheating!
I didn't pay for a membership so I could spend an hour a day making secret alliances and ruining games.

If the mods have access to all of my old PM's, they can search through them and see that SkyCaptain and myself have never had any contact.

And while you're at it, you can investigate drk48858 and Kid_A for a secret alliance in game 251374. Also an assassin game that ended when someone eliminated my target on accident. Although that's the only game drk48858 and I played together and we've never communicated.

I also really hope that those 2 things were merely accidents because I know both of the players to be honorable. However I must agree that the mentioned game ended in an odd way. After playing more than 10 games I expect somebody to be able to see who his target is.

Kid_A wrote:I understand why the other players from this game are suspicious.
But this makes me angry because of how much I hate cheating!
I didn't pay for a membership so I could spend an hour a day making secret alliances and ruining games.

If the mods have access to all of my old PM's, they can search through them and see that SkyCaptain and myself have never had any contact.

And while you're at it, you can investigate drk48858 and Kid_A for a secret alliance in game 251374. Also an assassin game that ended when someone eliminated my target on accident. Although that's the only game drk48858 and I played together and we've never communicated.

i like kid A alot so i hope none of this is true. but i will take this opportunity to raise the issue of bustability in cases of suspected secret alliances. is there a way to catch people for this offense?

from everything i can tell, it's damn hard to do. kid A, i hate to tell you, but an examination of your pm's won't do anything to establish your innocence, as their are 8 million other ways of communication.

this is one of those frustrating cases: for kid A and skycaptain to be considered innocent, we basically have to assume that skycaptain is a noobish moron. that's a pretty tall order. he's got rank, respect, experience in assassin games, and as incandenza showed, he appears to know how they work.

i have no vested interest in this particular case; i just want to see a discussion of how in the hell the mods are ever supposed to bust someone for secret alliance. to me, it comes down to this: in some cases it is clear that the players either had an alliance or there was idiocy involved, and when it is a major reach to attribute the odd play to idiocy, secret alliance must be the verdict

As for your last paragraph Nephilim, players are not usually inactivated for secret alliances (though they could be in extreme cases). Most of the time if a secret alliance is heavily suspected and well supported by evidence the players will be blocked from playing together.

sully800 wrote:As for your last paragraph Nephilim, players are not usually inactivated for secret alliances (though they could be in extreme cases). Most of the time if a secret alliance is heavily suspected and well supported by evidence the players will be blocked from playing together.

word......but what counts as good evidence or heavy suspicion? it's so hard to tell, eh?

Nephilim wrote: i hate to tell you, but an examination of your pm's won't do anything to establish your innocence, as their are 8 million other ways of communication.

Well I disagree with this. There would have to be an initial contact through pm's in order to set up a secret alliance.
And if you're investigating us for a secret alliance, then you might want to investigate every game where someone made a mistake that gave the game to another player.
You should investigate me for my last game 334423. I "accidentally" clicked End Fortification and potentially gave the game juventino. You could say that I tried to. He should've had an easy win but the dice screwed him and I won anyway, but you get my point.

Kid_A wrote:

Nephilim wrote: i hate to tell you, but an examination of your pm's won't do anything to establish your innocence, as their are 8 million other ways of communication.

Well I disagree with this. There would have to be an initial contact through pm's in order to set up a secret alliance.

huh? why? this could come by email, IM, telephone, airmail, pigeon......

and the point in this thread is that 2 mistakes by an experienced player in this case is fishy

my question is how fishy do we have to get before something is considered solid evidence (w/o true reference to this case, just using it as an entry point for this discussion.....yes i'm jacking the thread)

Nephilim wrote:

Kid_A wrote:

Nephilim wrote: i hate to tell you, but an examination of your pm's won't do anything to establish your innocence, as their are 8 million other ways of communication.

Well I disagree with this. There would have to be an initial contact through pm's in order to set up a secret alliance.

huh? why? this could come by email, IM, telephone, airmail, pigeon......

and the point in this thread is that 2 mistakes by an experienced player in this case is fishy

my question is how fishy do we have to get before something is considered solid evidence (w/o true reference to this case, just using it as an entry point for this discussion.....yes i'm jacking the thread)

I couldn't get his email im telephone or any of that info if he didnt give it to me in a pm.

and 2 mistakes? i saw 1. where's the second?

Kid_A wrote:I couldn't get his email im telephone or any of that info if he didnt give it to me in a pm.

Really? Because I just got your email address without you PM'ing me.
See that button at the bottom of all your posts that says EMAIL?



I just pressed it and got this address. nybradsf@yahoo.com
Look familiar?

boy do i feel silly wasn't even looking at mine, was looking at his

it's all silly b/c you could know each other, go thru a third party, any number of possibilities.....any way you look at it, the point is examining pm's does nothing.....

and the original post has the 2 different times that skycaptain killed your target.....2 mistakes

Nephilim wrote:it's all silly b/c you could know each other, go thru a third party, any number of possibilities.....any way you look at it, the point is examining pm's does nothing.....

and the original post has the 2 different times that skycaptain killed your target.....2 mistakes

he killed my target in one game. it's just ridiculous to discuss the other one. At some point in that game he attacked the player who happened to be my target. He attacked my target once!!! and if you check the game log, he was attacking his target the entire game and only attacked my target the one time because he was in between him and his target.
Id like someone to show me one assassin were a player attacked only his target and no other players in the game, for the entire game.

good point, if one was a mistake, then the other could just be part of the strategy. it doesnt look like skycaptain lost that second one purposefully. he just didnt notice that killing that country would lead to the loss

Kid_A wrote:he killed my target in one game. it's just ridiculous to discuss the other one. At some point in that game he attacked the player who happened to be my target. He attacked my target once!!! and if you check the game log, he was attacking his target the entire game and only attacked my target the one time because he was in between him and his target.
Id like someone to show me one assassin were a player attacked only his target and no other players in the game, for the entire game.

I'm not so sure about that. Personally, late in an assassin game, I'll go out of my way to ensure that I don't pick off any non-target countries, especially those of a person that's weak. And while I might pick off a non-target country for a card or to get at countries on the far side, I would NEVER take TWO non-target countries, like skycaptain did in the europe game. And it's not like he hit those two countries on his way to something else. Those were the only 2 countries he took that turn.

For the record, Kid A, I've always enjoyed playing against you, you seem like a good guy, and I sincerely hope that it's just coincidence (and noobishness on skycaptain's part) that allowed you to benefit from his largesse twice.

I have played 1 assassin game with skycaptain, and just based off of that game, I'd say he is an above average assassin player.

The game # was 294613, and if you look at the game log, you will notice that skycaptain was the only one that didn't help me in the last turn by attacking my target. Every other player took at least one of my target's territories even though he was clearly very weak and I was positioned to kill him.

Assuming sky's target was blue, he did well in the game up till that point. He had a continent that was located very close to blue's group of countries and one of blue's stray countries he had already taken out. He also had an army positioned to take out blue's other two stray countries. Very well positioned considering he had only taken 3 turns.