Conquer Club

Accused: eye84free


The accused are suspected of:

Multi Hunter job abuse


Game number(s):

Game 10198670
Game 10052924
Game 9741363
Game 9710079
Game 9710077
Game 9710075
Game 9710066
Game 9710065
Game 9681032
Game 9649490

Games Game 9710079, Game 9710077 and Game 9710075 are from the same user..
Also Game 9710066 and Game 9710065 are from the same user.


Comments: Similar case as with Masli but wasn't included in the original thread.

so, was this like masli? joining and then busting? is there as large a number as has been found on masli? i assume King Achilles will lock this and look into this accusation too...-el Jesus negro

Not as many as with Masli's case, and none of the listed games have moves...

I would have to agree this is abuse, they can check to see if they are multi's without joining the game(s) and getting the benefit of points.

~Sam

We are already aware of this issue with eye84free and have reviewed it with the other administrators. The verdict for both of them would have been issued on the Masli report. We are still collecting information. Owen, feel free to assume as much as you want and be careful of what you wish you for. Don't forget to assume the spamming/trolling/baiting/off topic posts in the C&A forum that results in locking of threads.

samuelc812 wrote:I would have to agree this is abuse, they can check to see if they are multi's without joining the game(s) and getting the benefit of points.

~Sam

Yes, they can, but they can also check the account in question after they have joined the game. Like when people who suspects someone is point dumping or a multi and they still join the game. They join the game and then report the user, hoping for a bust. Hunters can join games without the obligation of checking the user first.

Might not make a difference, but I really think MH's should have a rule of not busting players they are in games with, if they are going to join games with these multis, wait until the game is completely over and then bust them, other wise it looks too fishy even if their intent wasn't to cash up points

I wouldn't think eye84free would care much about points as his rank sucks, but hard to say when your not with him when hes joining and busting these players.

edit: nevermind about my last statement, his rank use to suck last time i played him, he was a 2 bar... so i guess that is irrelevant now that he is a major

-griff

grifftron wrote:Might not make a difference, but I really think MH's should have a rule of not busting players they are in games with, if they are going to join games with these multis, wait until the game is completely over and then bust them, other wise it looks too fishy even if their intent wasn't to cash up points
-griff

Great point and would control this problem

GoranZ wrote:Accused: eye84free


The accused are suspected of:

Multi Hunter job abuse


Game number(s):

Game 10198670
Game 10052924
Game 9741363
Game 9710079
Game 9710077
Game 9710075
Game 9710066
Game 9710065
Game 9681032
Game 9649490

Games Game 9710079, Game 9710077 and Game 9710075 are from the same user..
Also Game 9710066 and Game 9710065 are from the same user.


Comments: Similar case as with Masli but wasn't included in the original thread.

Same Player..........Game 97100752011-09-07 03:49:09 - Game has been initialized
2011-09-07 03:49:28 - brutal_war was kicked out for violating the rules
2011-09-07 03:49:28 - eye84free won the game
2011-09-07 03:49:28 - brutal_war lost 12 points
2011-09-07 03:49:28 - eye84free gained 12 points Game 97100772011-09-07 03:49:06 - Game has been initialized
2011-09-07 03:49:29 - brutal_war was kicked out for violating the rules
2011-09-07 03:49:29 - eye84free won the game
2011-09-07 03:49:29 - brutal_war lost 12 points
2011-09-07 03:49:29 - eye84free gained 12 points Game 97100792011-09-07 03:48:57 - Game has been initialized
2011-09-07 03:49:29 - brutal_war was kicked out for violating the rules
2011-09-07 03:49:29 - eye84free won the game
2011-09-07 03:49:29 - brutal_war lost 12 points
2011-09-07 03:49:29 - eye84free gained 12 points.......................................................................33 second time frame to join 3 games against this so called multi and kick him for violating the rules.(Freestyle Multi Hunting?????)

ouch... i hope this isnt true..

I know the way I tried to conduct business was to hand it off to another hunter when it included games I was in or clan members just so that perception wasnt there. But it was getting done in the Mod Hunter forum..

Would like to believe its business as usual & both these guys are Cleared..

KS

How long does it take to check out a player? coz 33 seconds seems real quick to be deffo sure unless the MH knew before hand ,if so why did he not bust the player before joiing the game ?

SPARTACUS1974 wrote:How long does it take to check out a player? coz 33 seconds seems real quick to be deffo sure unless the MH knew before hand ,if so why did he not bust the player before joiing the game ?

sometimes its blatant, cut and dry and could take 30 seconds or so to gather up enough info to satisfy a warranted Bust.

And I will say this, although Im sure the trolls will come in here talking about my reasoning being because I once was a mod, if I am or was joining a game to play I wasnt going out looking for rule violators. Getting away from the mod duties to enjoy a game meant not going through and giving a package check to every potential opponent before/during or after a game.

If I did get involved in a game and my spidey sense tingled then no harm no foul I run a check. If its a simple Bust I usually asked for another Hunters opinion/action in the private forum we(they) have, and someone would proceed with the appropriate action. If it was an intricate case I would sometimes drag the game along to gather more information to justify innocence or guilt. Either way if the mod is enjoying the game, cause they are players too and run across someone who is violating a policy it is within their right and they should be expected to handle the violation as per the guidelines like they would every other time. So trying to brainstorm a stipulation about not Busting them until the game is over or writing some code not allowing points to come into play shouldnt be considered.

The true kicker in this case for both these guys is proving intent. If beyond a reasonable doubt there is enough info/evidence to suggest either one of them were using their mod powers to join games knowing the OP was a multi and would get kicked by them or another hunter then thats a serious offense. However while some evidence was presented in that 12 page thread there wasnt much that helped this question of intent. Partly because the evidence collected or evidence that will need to be collected to prove this intent is something that the general public are not privi'd to. Hence why KA said the matter was being looked into. Its quite serious accusation, it takes time and you better believe before someone is sent out to the pasture on any high vis case all i's are dotted and t's crossed.

Allow the process to work, KA will inform the public of the outcome and then the lemmings can go at it about how its fair and unfair. No matter what the outcome is the lemmings will be there.

KS

king achilles wrote: Owen, feel free to assume as much as you want and be careful of what you wish you for. Don't forget to assume the spamming/trolling/baiting/off topic posts in the C&A forum that results in locking of threads.

um... that was a genuine post assuming that you would do the same as you have done with the masli thread, locking it and continuing to investigate it without the thread spinning wildly out of control. i wasn't baiting you!!! holy mackeral!!! the only odd thing about the other thread was, people assumed it was done, because it was locked and noted and now is locked and pending. locked and noted seemed as if it was done with. locked and pending lets people know it is still ongoing... don't be so sensitive or i will give you a new years gift!!! ...-0

king achilles wrote:Hunters can join games without the obligation of checking the user first.

Of course they can. They can also get in trouble because of it.

Maybe they should check the user first, especially if you're talking about 1v1 games against low-ranked freemiums. It would certainly be the ethical thing to do IMHO.

Lx

Lindax wrote:

king achilles wrote:Hunters can join games without the obligation of checking the user first.

Of course they can. They can also get in trouble because of it.

Maybe they should check the user first, especially if you're talking about 1v1 games against low-ranked freemiums. It would certainly be the ethical thing to do IMHO.

Lx

I think the timing of the MH check is very important in these 2 cases as they may well have been before the game commenced?

It is a shame the reputability of the "staff" is being called into question a lot recently. A real shame.

hmsps wrote:

Lindax wrote:

king achilles wrote:Hunters can join games without the obligation of checking the user first.

Of course they can. They can also get in trouble because of it.

Maybe they should check the user first, especially if you're talking about 1v1 games against low-ranked freemiums. It would certainly be the ethical thing to do IMHO.

Lx

I think the timing of the MH check is very important in these 2 cases as they may well have been before the game commenced?

Yeah, I should have written: "Maybe they should check and bust (if applicable) the user first, especially if you're talking about 1v1 games against low-ranked freemiums. It would certainly be the ethical thing to do IMHO.

Lx

I feel for KA in this situation as well as Masli's. It's a no win. If he does discipline these 2, its a huge black eye to CC and SHOWS a lack of integrity by the staff. If he clears them, it looks like favortism and once again would look like a lack of integrity by the staff. This isn't good at all.

Evolution299 wrote:I feel for KA in this situation as well as Masli's. It's a no win. If he does discipline these 2, its a huge black eye to CC and SHOWS a lack of integrity by the staff. If he clears them, it looks like favortism and once again would look like a lack of integrity by the staff. This isn't good at all.

I personally believe that you cannot judge the whole bushel by a few bad apples and if these individuals are disciplined then it well show that the integrity of the staff has strengthened.

I'm sorry but most multi reports sit around for minimum of a few days. When we (the playing / paying public) make a report, I'd saya GOOD 90% of these busts the game is over already. If you've lost those points, they always say "to bad".

If they want to be checking games, esp in 1 vs 1 they should be checking first so they aren't getting handed free points on "suspicions". Or make the bust after like the majority of everybody elses games.

I fully respect the mod team, all of them even if I disagree. But this is abuse of the site and position (if true) and if it ISN'T, methods should be put in place to ensure it doesn't look so bad.

Question - if it's 1 vs 1 and someone gets busted, why are points awarded at all? You haven't beaten them. Why not hange the rule any bust during active games have no points awarded. Then they can join "random" games and have "random" suspicions and bust "random" players without ever risking earning points from abusive behavior.

IcePack

IcePack wrote:I'm sorry but most multi reports sit around for minimum of a few days. When we (the playing / paying public) make a report, I'd saya GOOD 90% of these busts the game is over already. If you've lost those points, they always say "to bad".

If they want to be checking games, esp in 1 vs 1 they should be checking first so they aren't getting handed free points on "suspicions". Or make the bust after like the majority of everybody elses games.

I fully respect the mod team, all of them even if I disagree. But this is abuse of the site and position (if true) and if it ISN'T, methods should be put in place to ensure it doesn't look so bad.

Question - if it's 1 vs 1 and someone gets busted, why are points awarded at all? You haven't beaten them. Why not hange the rule any bust during active games have no points awarded. Then they can join "random" games and have "random" suspicions and bust "random" players without ever risking earning points from abusive behavior.

IcePack

i agree....easy fix. no points awarded. done.

IcePack wrote:I'm sorry but most multi reports sit around for minimum of a few days. When we (the playing / paying public) make a report, I'd saya GOOD 90% of these busts the game is over already. If you've lost those points, they always say "to bad".

If they want to be checking games, esp in 1 vs 1 they should be checking first so they aren't getting handed free points on "suspicions". Or make the bust after like the majority of everybody elses games.

I fully respect the mod team, all of them even if I disagree. But this is abuse of the site and position (if true) and if it ISN'T, methods should be put in place to ensure it doesn't look so bad.

Question - if it's 1 vs 1 and someone gets busted, why are points awarded at all? You haven't beaten them. Why not hange the rule any bust during active games have no points awarded. Then they can join "random" games and have "random" suspicions and bust "random" players without ever risking earning points from abusive behavior.

IcePack

Imagine u play agents a multi for 100 rounds, he has 1 territory remaining and he is busted. I will not be happy, maybe this should be implemented only for the multi hunters, since they can check the players the will play agents.

It will suck, but I'd rather that then people "studying" multi's just to join games and report / bust them.
In the long run for you it's one game. For others, it's 100's of points it seems. Stop the abuse (or potential for it) and realistically the few others it "hurts" are just by product of cheaters on site.

In my opinion whether you played 1 turn or 100, if he's a cheater and busted you shouldn't get points from active game.

IcePack

Unfortunately that system isn't infallible either. What's on the line when playing a very low ranker is, say, +4pts for a win against -50pts for a loss. You see you're going to potentially lose the game yet have the power to annul it? Simple....bust the multi and save yourself that loss.

That said, it is nevertheless a better system than the one in place where points are awarded to the opponent of a player kicked from a game.

Funny little story. We had a group of vice squad police here who would visit brothels, engage in sex with the working girls and enjoy the fruits of their hospitality (food, cigarettes, drugs, etc) and then have their accomplices raid the place just before it came time to pay.

This tale sprung to mind, coincidentally.

grifftron wrote:Might not make a difference, but I really think MH's should have a rule of not busting players they are in games with, if they are going to join games with these multis, wait until the game is completely over and then bust them, other wise it looks too fishy even if their intent wasn't to cash up points

-griff

The only problem with this is what if the multi beats someone else while the hunter is waiting for their game to end?

How is that fair to the other opponents of the multi?

No need to worry about that because the hunter joins the game and busts in 30 seconds so there is no waiting .