Conquer Club

Accused:

pascalleke
TexasSlammer



The accused are suspected of:


Other: Gross abuse or possible multis



Game number(s):

Game 9813586



Comments: I believe that pascalleke is taking turns for Texasslammer without declaring such. If a hunter could check the IP addresses for the deployment phase of the above game, I would appreciate it. I do not believe that these accounts are consistently used as multis, but have a strong suspicion that they were in this case. Here's why:

Pascal obviously has Texas' password and regularly takes turns for him. He declares such in many games. The timing, however, is suspicious enough to make one wonder whether he does not always declare that he is taking turns. For a recent example see the following:

Texasslammer takes a turn on 10/3/11 at 7:30. Game 9810464. Only 3 hours later, Pascalleke was taking turns for Texasslammer on 10/3/11 10:28. See Game 9824827. A couple hours after that, apparently Texas takes his own turns on 10/3/11 12:45. Game 9824832 and Game 9824830. Then Pascal is back again on 10/4/11 00:36. See Game 9810455.

In the game in question, Pascal and Texas take turns that are nearly back-to-back. There is no overlap that might indicate that they were on at the same time. There are no wall posts that indicate that they had decided to head over to that game to check it out together. This would be a fairly odd coincidence for a player like Texas who seems to not be able to be on long enough to take turns in more than a couple games at a time. Also, Texas' turn started after Pascals, which rules out the possibility that Pascal was on and noticed that his teammate was taking a turn.

It is common courtesy to announce in game chat that another player will take your turn(s) during your absence.

At this time it is not required to announce when you sit for someone. It the game you linked it was only the deploy stage a a manual freestyle game. I don't see any advantage for pascalleke to have placed for both team members. Now if he takes turns for his partner to gain a tactical advantage that would be something to look into. i am going to mark this CLOSED.

Evil Semp wrote:I don't see any advantage for pascalleke to have placed for both team members. CLOSED.

Just FYI if the armies were not placed in a manual game then all of his team mates territories would have been set as a 3 not what you want in a manual game

Evil Semp wrote:It is common courtesy to announce in game chat that another player will take your turn(s) during your absence.

At this time it is not required to announce when you sit for someone. It the game you linked it was only the deploy stage a a manual freestyle game. I don't see any advantage for pascalleke to have placed for both team members. Now if he takes turns for his partner to gain a tactical advantage that would be something to look into. i am going to mark this CLOSED.

In a manual freestyle game, you gain a huge advantage by making any move at the same time as your teammate and before the other team has acted. This includes the deployment phase. This allows the team to ensure that they will have the first turn in the game (as long as they take their turn within 12 hours of the other team's deployment). If this behavior continues through the game, as appears to be happening in round 2 of the cited game, then it leaves the other team with a huge disadvantage.

If this is a result of a highly coordinated effort of one team, then it is a good and pretty much unbeatable strategy. However, based on Texas' turn history, I do not believe that this is the case. I do not have access, though, to their log-in histories. I cannot see whether these moves are coming from the same IP address. CC can.

I ask that the case be reopened long enough to determine whether each player was actually taking his own turns in this game.

agentcom wrote:

Evil Semp wrote:It is common courtesy to announce in game chat that another player will take your turn(s) during your absence.

At this time it is not required to announce when you sit for someone. It the game you linked it was only the deploy stage a a manual freestyle game. I don't see any advantage for pascalleke to have placed for both team members. Now if he takes turns for his partner to gain a tactical advantage that would be something to look into. i am going to mark this CLOSED.

In a manual freestyle game, you gain a huge advantage by making any move at the same time as your teammate and before the other team has acted. This includes the deployment phase. This allows the team to ensure that they will have the first turn in the game (as long as they take their turn within 12 hours of the other team's deployment). If this behavior continues through the game, as appears to be happening in round 2 of the cited game, then it leaves the other team with a huge disadvantage.

If this is a result of a highly coordinated effort of one team, then it is a good and pretty much unbeatable strategy. However, based on Texas' turn history, I do not believe that this is the case. I do not have access, though, to their log-in histories. I cannot see whether these moves are coming from the same IP address. CC can.

I ask that the case be reopened long enough to determine whether each player was actually taking his own turns in this game.

I will look into it some more. I didn't realize that the deployment phase in freestyle made a difference in who can go first in the attack phase of the game.

then people find it strange CC is loosing active players .... to much of this crap on the forum

@ agentcom


1. ur just a paranoid cry baby
2. we took the last turn discussing it on msn
3. yess i took his 1st turn , i am his regular sitter , like i am for more people
4. sorry i forget sometimes to put this in gamechat
5. tex had a pc break down so he has a new msn , something i found out yesterday so i was just helping him out because i tought he was missing
6. stop playing FS games if u dont like these "advantanges"
7. ...whatever ...

Actually, I think it is a strength of this site that there are people working to make sure things are fair, no? And Pasc should be required to change his icon ... she is too damned distracting!

evil i cannot remember who it was but begining of this year or late last year a team got a warning for this as it is classed as exactly what you said gaining a tactical advantage. it dont matter if it was first or last shot. one thing you can actually see by the game log is that pascalle took the opening turn of the game for himself and for his team mate. but his team mate is back online 11 hours later this would of meant pascalle was indeed abusing the sitting rule, because his team mate played a 2nd round shot. which if still first round would he would of still had 10 hours on the clock.

Pasc is in no way a cheater nor does he need to be. Way to close this so fast Evil!

eddie2 wrote:evil i cannot remember who it was but begining of this year or late last year a team got a warning for this as it is classed as exactly what you said gaining a tactical advantage. it dont matter if it was first or last shot. one thing you can actually see by the game log is that pascalle took the opening turn of the game for himself and for his team mate. but his team mate is back online 11 hours later this would of meant pascalle was indeed abusing the sitting rule, because his team mate played a 2nd round shot. which if still first round would he would of still had 10 hours on the clock.

I was not aware of the warning given out for this, but thank you for pointing it out. Do you remember any of the other details, so that I can try to track it down? You also made the point much clearer than I did that "sitting" for an account should not include taking your teammate's turn for a tactical advantage. Obviously, when a player (the "sittee") is online a few hours before and a few hours after, the sitter took the turn not to avoid a missed turn, but to get that first turn advantage.

As for pascal's post:

You're first response to us saying that something was messed up was: "lol u 2 guys are just paranoid dont join our games then ...simpel ...for the rest i wont even bother to spend any time and energy on this mather " If you had said you that your teammate's computer was broken and you got a lucky break because of it, I probably wouldn't have done any digging in the matter. But now that I see the turn history, and given that others have been warned for this exact same thing, I think you should at least be warned because of this. Taking a teammate's turn to avoid missing turns is one thing. Signing on to his account anytime it benefits you is a completely different matter.

Evil Semp wrote:I will look into it some more. I didn't realize that the deployment phase in freestyle made a difference in who can go first in the attack phase of the game.

I have looked into this further and pascalleke and texasslammer have been WARNED for account sitting abuse.

Freestyle games are probably the best game for a team that can really work together. The key word is team. Both players should be playing the game not one taking the turn of the other for tactical advantage.

Evil Semp wrote:

Evil Semp wrote:I will look into it some more. I didn't realize that the deployment phase in freestyle made a difference in who can go first in the attack phase of the game.

I have looked into this further and pascalleke and texasslammer have been WARNED for account sitting abuse.

Freestyle games are probably the best game for a team that can really work together. The key word is team. Both players should be playing the game not one taking the turn of the other for tactical advantage.

i`m not a FS player , although i do find this interesting . Account sitting abuse . Well, one thing for sure is i beleive pasc`s original response was legitimate. We dont know the circumstances outside of CC , and to warn for abuse without letting the community know other instances to me goes to the point that has been risen many times. Why is CC membership falling ?.. Based on the quoted response we have atleast one answer to that question...

danfrank wrote:

Evil Semp wrote:

Evil Semp wrote:I will look into it some more. I didn't realize that the deployment phase in freestyle made a difference in who can go first in the attack phase of the game.

I have looked into this further and pascalleke and texasslammer have been WARNED for account sitting abuse.

Freestyle games are probably the best game for a team that can really work together. The key word is team. Both players should be playing the game not one taking the turn of the other for tactical advantage.

i`m not a FS player , although i do find this interesting . Account sitting abuse . Well, one thing for sure is i beleive pasc`s original response was legitimate. We dont know the circumstances outside of CC , and to warn for abuse without letting the community know other instances to me goes to the point that has been risen many times. Why is CC membership falling ?.. Based on the quoted response we have atleast one answer to that question...

Pascalleke was taking turns to gain a tactical advantage in the freestyle games. He was taking turns that his team mate had the ability and the time to take the turns.

Pascalleke was taking turns to gain a tactical advantage in the freestyle games. He was taking turns that his team mate had the ability and the time to take the turns.

That is most certainly a sitting abuse and most definitely deserves warning for it.

jefjef wrote:

Pascalleke was taking turns to gain a tactical advantage in the freestyle games. He was taking turns that his team mate had the ability and the time to take the turns.

That is most certainly a sitting abuse and most definitely deserves warning for it.

First and foremost, thank you Evil for looking in to this further.

Second, I think some of the "CC is going to lose membership because of XXXXX" is overblown. CC has certain rules that make it more fun to play. One hard and fast rule restricts multis. But CC also has to play a delicate balancing act between a strict "one account, one player" policy that would result in missed turns nearly any time someone goes AFK for a day or two and a scenario where someone's account, while not a multi, becomes a free-for-all. This is one attempt at striking that balance.

I'd written a much longer post but surprised myself at how many ways there are to look at this. Suffice it to say, I can see other points of view on this particular incident and on larger rules (e.g. rules for freestyle games, rules about multiple players in single accounts, etc.). However, I think that this ruling, which basically states that you cannot "sit" an account to gain a tactical advantage (and not for the purpose of avoiding missed turns) is fair and consistent with the other C&A rulings that I've read.

Over the last year, several events have occurred on CC that clarified the parameters of account sitting abuse. While its certainly an important conversation to keep having, I think we should learn from this case and others that you should not be taking friends' turns if they are able to take the turns themselves.

wow my 1st warning
some people call it an abuse , some would call it taking turns for friends (one of the last reasons i am still here )
for many different reasons . Let me be clear i am not denying my guilt here....but u also can see some things from a different point of view ...yeah i am the sitter of many friends...and wenn i saw turns to be taken and wenn i believed they were not there i did not always wait till the last minute ( sorry i have more things in my life going on then just wait till that clock ticks to the last minute )and yess maybee i got carried away in this .....shoot me . Maybee its better said i took turns for many different reasons some very clear and some not so transparant....me a cheater for some points man get serious ....if i would care i would be a general by now .....for me this proves just 1 thing more : CC is becoming a paranoid police state where there is no more room for some flexibility. Hey making this clear : i dont deny that we need rules and a C&A team . one of my best friends is a hunter and i am happy he does his work .....but heck all things come with 2 sides ...and to me and i believe more people who just lost there intrest in CC this is just going to much to the one side ...so no more fun anymore....meaning ...i lost the fun in sitting for my friends...sorry just like i lost intrest in this forum ....for some reasons like this ...the end