Conquer Club

Accused:

josko.ri

The accused are suspected of:

Multiple game chat trolling, following Chariot of Fire while he is on a vacation. Spamming the game chat and posting there irrelevant comments.

Extract from the guidelines:

Chats of Games you are not in
It is typically advised to not post in the chats of games you are not playing. If you do wish to post in another player's game, please keep your comments limited to a Good Luck comment or a quick question. Spamming or trolling other player's games is not allowed.


Spamming/Trolling

Repeatedly posting the same or nonsense comments in the chat, especially if the person is not playing in the game.
Posting comments that violate the Spamming and Trolling rules from the Forum Guidelines.

Harassing

Banter and some trash talking IS allowed in the Game Chats, provided it doesn't cross some specific lines.
While you might find some game chat disagreeable, uncouth, and boorish, cursing and using foul language may not be a breach of our Guidelines. Try kindly asking them to stop or ignoring them using your Foes List.
That said, what is not allowed is any form of bigotry, cyber-bullying/harassment or those extremes outlined in the Forum Guidelines. Please report any such comments that you find offensive.

Game number(s):

Game 9213561
Game 9199901
Game 9043460


Comments:
If this 3 games are not enough of an evidence, I can dig some more games from the famous TOFU-KORT war but I don't want to steer it again.

lol i think the explination for sitters is easy and by joskos comments i dont think he understands it.


lets put it one way if a player is going away no a sitter should not join games for that player apart from tourney games that need signed up to.


with clans it is totally different because with clans you have more than one player that can play any givern game so no a sitter should not be signing them up and playing. see it is that simple not hard to understand. all of this is starting to show that some of the top clans are not actually top clans because they are using cheap (site cheating methods ) to win challenges.

Eddie, clanwars are also accepted under the tournament rule.

Dako wrote:Chats of Games you are not in
It is typically advised to not post in the chats of games you are not playing. If you do wish to post in another player's game, please keep your comments limited to a Good Luck comment or a quick question. Spamming or trolling other player's games is not allowed.

in Stalingrad and Thailand my comments were quick questions, only in cricket it was not question (not ? at the end of sentence) but sense of the comment is also question (is it ok to join games for a player who is going to long vacation?). so I dont see any breaking of this rule done as my comments were quick questions.

Dako wrote:Spamming/Trolling

Repeatedly posting the same or nonsense comments in the chat, especially if the person is not playing in the game.
Posting comments that violate the Spamming and Trolling rules from the Forum Guidelines.

my comments are not nonsense, it has good sense and IS conneted with games where I posted. point of comments are to get relevant information about sitting for Chariot of Fire while he is on vacation. I posted my questions about that exactly in the games where I had doubts that sitting was not done properly, so it is right place for asking that.
if I have doubts that someone did something against the rules, the first step is asking him about it, because his answer can maybe clear my doubts so then any my further investigation is not needed. if his answer do not clear my doubts, then I have reason to start deeper investigation with using proper channels. so, everything in chat is just ASKING, what happens with him, who sits for him, is he able to play his turns or is not, did he play his turn or sitter played it etc. that questions has huge sense, and is very connected with the games where I posted, as sitting was done exactly there.

Dako wrote:Harassing

Banter and some trash talking IS allowed in the Game Chats, provided it doesn't cross some specific lines.
While you might find some game chat disagreeable, uncouth, and boorish, cursing and using foul language may not be a breach of our Guidelines. Try kindly asking them to stop or ignoring them using your Foes List.
That said, what is not allowed is any form of bigotry, cyber-bullying/harassment or those extremes outlined in the Forum Guidelines. Please report any such comments that you find offensive.

I was kindly asked to stop (by Seullesliathan in Stalingrad and by timmy 1 in Cricket) and I really stopped after being asked.
I do not show bigorty/bullying/harrasment there, I am just trying to get relevant information about the way how sitting for him in last days was done by ASKING his sitters/teammates, not by any form of bigorty/bullying/harrasment towards him.

SirSebstar wrote:Eddie, clanwars are also accepted under the tournament rule.

lets look at the rule. from the help section.

You can, with the stipulation that the account babysitter is not your opponent in any current game. It is common courtesy to announce in game chat that another player will take your turn(s) during your absence. Babysitters should only do what is necessary to take the turn(s) and should not interact with the community, start or join new games (except for ongoing tournaments). 1)Furthermore, you should only take another player's turn if they are in danger of missing a turn, not for the purpose of gaining a tactical advantage.

1)now the rule state ongoing tourneys this is because 1 player not being able to join a game holds the tourney up. In clanm wars most clans have 20 plus players that can join any game. So 1 player being absent means they are not availible for the game and should not be signed up to the game as other players can sign up (mainly the player that is sitting for them.)

2)now since most of these sitting abuses happen in challenges that have a player limit on for how many times a player can be used. You could say signing a player up to a game and a sitter playing and joining for him is actually gaining a tactical advantage because the sitter has actually played one game less in his game count than he would of if he had been signed up himself.

I think it's time for TOFU and KORT to foe each other and move on. This is the most juvenile beef I've ever seen.

drunkmonkey wrote:I think it's time for TOFU and KORT to foe each other and move on. This is the most juvenile beef I've ever seen.

Nothing to see here

whats horse-meat called?

Lol, I do remember telling josko that it may be best to not chase tofu unnecessarily with these things since a resumption of hostility is really to be expected. As monkey said, it's best to let sleeping dogs lie, or is that not to graze on tofu?

Eddie, what exactly are you trying to get at here with your discussion about tournament vs clan games and who should be joining them?

Two of the three are tournament games meaning it is allowed under the rule your posted for someone to join those for CoF. The third is a clan game that started over one month ago. CoF was taking his own turns when that game started and I can easily prove he was active on the site (as can hundreds of others) when that game started.

So... I don't understand why your off-topic discussion is even taking place in this thread?

yeah, enough is enough really. i imagine both clans (and most of the observers) are sick of the incessant inane bickering back and forth. rather than continue to prod each other, let's try to move on with our lives and play what is suppose to be an entertaining game.

anyone with enough spare time to continue trying to instigate and provocate should perhaps instead be taking up another hobby or even a job to help fill the long lonely hours of their day.

Bones2484 wrote:Eddie, what exactly are you trying to get at here with your discussion about tournament vs clan games and who should be joining them?

Two of the three are tournament games meaning it is allowed under the rule your posted for someone to join those for CoF. The third is a clan game that started over one month ago. CoF was taking his own turns when that game started and I can easily prove he was active on the site (as can hundreds of others) when that game started.

So... I don't understand why your off-topic discussion is even taking place in this thread?

bones joskos comments in the cricket game.

2011-06-14 18:01:29 - josko.ri: nice to see that it is ok to join games for a player who is going to LONG vacation. if I remember well, when I sat for Moonchild when he was going to 7 days vacation, CoF was the loudest one who complained about why he started a game if he is going away

2011-06-13 23:43:06 - josko.ri: obviously, he is not able to take his turns in game 9043460, (cachejob sit for near future with CoF on vacation) but here he plays his turns perfectly. or maybe someone do not post sitter notification in chat here duing last 2 consecutive turns?

then this game. that had been running for 2 months before a sitter started for him

2011-06-14 15:40:07 - josko.ri: cachejob, I read in this game chat 9199901 2011-06-14 04:58:41 - jpeter15: CF is on vacation but getting to most of his turns, he asked that a few of us cover any turns that look like he may not get to them
2011-06-14 15:42:39 - josko.ri: so, if he getting sometimes to most of his turns,like jpeter said, then playing turns for him with A LOT OF TIME left is against the site rules. or he choose which turns he will play by himself, and which turns he will leave for sitters to play?

all i am trying to really say for a player like josko who had a clan mod and a c and a mod in his clan he should of clarified it before he goes posting these kind of comments . there was nothing wrong with what happened in them games and is nothing like what he has been doing so i thought i would point it out to him where he is going wrong.If his comments were true then i could off seen him getting off with this. but going into his games posting incorrect info makes it look bad.

Dako wrote:Accused:

josko.ri

The accused are suspected of:

Multiple game chat trolling, following Chariot of Fire while he is on a vacation. Spamming the game chat and posting there irrelevant comments.

1 line is not trolling or spamming. The comments were not irrelevant with the games. So there is only one game that someone can say that he did game chat spamming. One game is not multiple games.

P.S.This accuse is ridiculous but it is true that Josko 's comments shouldn't be at the games chat.

drunkmonkey wrote:I think it's time for TOFU and KORT to foe each other and move on. This is the most juvenile beef I've ever seen.

I'm one step ahead of you.

This is by no means trolling. As Dako knows, there's another topic in this very forum that is questioning the boundaries between legitimate sitting and account sitting abuse. It's a topic with many doubts, several people from several clans saying what they think and expressing dissenting opinions. The community wants an understanding about what is acceptable and what is not.

Then we see one of the "co-accusers" on that topic stating he will travel for 6 weeks. That's perfectly ok, until 2 weird things arise:

a) he joined a TLO game which he knew he wouldn't be online to play. This shows hipocrisy as Josko was previously bashed for doing the same thing for Moon. Steve replied clan games are different from tournament ones, but SirSebstar explained that they are governed by the same rule as far as sitters accepting game invitations, so Josko had a legit concern in understanding why they would bash him for doing something and then would proceed to doing the same thing. (this is the Cricket game discussion)

b)2011-06-13 23:58:41 - jpeter15: CF is on vacation but getting to most of his turns, he asked that a few of us cover any turns that look like he may not get to them

This was from the Thailand game. It looks like CoF has internet access and will take some turns, but not all of them. Some would need sitting. Well, if he gets online to play some turns, why not play all of them? What is the criterium he will use to determine which games he will play himself and which ones he will leave to his sitters? If he gets online and plays some games while leaving his teammates to play others, isn't that exactly like the alleged account sitting abuse Josko is being accused of committing? You see, Josko was concerned about the rules and asked legitimate questions. How is that trolling?

EDIT:


Just to make my point clearer, the main concern Josko is having is the double standard that is apparently being used against him.

Moon and I took some turns in a 24-hour span, didn't take others and Josko sat for us when time was expiring. People think he abused account sitting rules.
CoF travels but still takes some turns and don't take others. His buddies sit when time isn't even close to expiring (even though he was online in the 24-hour span taking other turns). Why is that legit if you claim the former case to be abuse?

Rodion wrote:How is that trolling?

Easy case with precedent, especially based on the chat in that third game. Here's a quote from King Sam (which you can find him using multiple times in a search of his name and the Closed C&A forum):

king sam wrote:It is typically advised to not post in the chats of games you are not playing. If you do wish to post in another player's game, please keep your comments limited to a Good Luck comment or a quick question. Spamming or trolling other player's games is not allowed.

Common Trolling can be:

* Posting controversial or irrelevant messages or topics with the intent to provoke/bait someone else into a pissing match, emotional response, flame fest or to generally disrupt the discussion.

Also, debate on whether or not CoF is breaking any rules should not happen in this thread. If you want to accuse him of something open a new thread, this one is about josko posting in a game he is not a part of.

Still, king sam mention seems to be a typical advice instead of a hard and fast ruling, so I'm not so certain these specific incidents are fully encompassed in the gambit of trolling.

Neither do I think they're discussing something with regards to and cof breaking, but rather the reasoning for the afore-mentioned comments and why that should indicate that it isn't trolling as such

Bones2484 wrote:

Rodion wrote:How is that trolling?

Easy case with precedent, especially based on the chat in that third game. Here's a quote from King Sam (which you can find him using multiple times in a search of his name and the Closed C&A forum):

king sam wrote:It is typically advised to not post in the chats of games you are not playing. If you do wish to post in another player's game, please keep your comments limited to a Good Luck comment or a quick question. Spamming or trolling other player's games is not allowed.

Common Trolling can be:

* Posting controversial or irrelevant messages or topics with the intent to provoke/bait someone else into a pissing match, emotional response, flame fest or to generally disrupt the discussion.

Also, debate on whether or not CoF is breaking any rules should not happen in this thread. If you want to accuse him of something open a new thread, this one is about josko posting in a game he is not a part of.

Maybe you're a mindreader and I'm just a feeble human, but I know Josko and I saw the legitimate intent of understanding boundaries between what his co-accusers considered legitimate sitting and sitting abuse, NOT the intent to provoke/bait.

And I was not advocating that CoF broke rules, I merely explained how Josko's concern is understandable and shouldn't fall under trolling.

Ok Kids. This is only NOTE worthy at the most.

I am glad josko is concerned. His comments have offended CoF and his teammates (myself included) by questioning his vacation in public. I am ok with talking via PMs, but nearly the same comment in three games smells of stalking to me. And I think he baited CoF, even if he didn't intend to.

If you have doubts about people correctly utilizing sitters - ask in PM or raise a C&A report. This is the correct route.

Also, we all know that it can be a note, not a warning from the C&A team. I just want to make sure that josko understands that what he is doing is not appreciated at all. (Edit, fastposted by jj).

Answering your questions about CoF joining other games (sorry for the offtopic).
a) CoF joined the tournament game he was bound to join a year ago. In the josko-moon case, they knew well beforehand that moon will be away and still entered him in a clan game (which is not the same as tournament game).

b) CoF is on a vacation, he drinks a lot, sleeps a lot and does a variety of other pleasant things I am sure. Sometimes he has a free 15 minutes and he hops to CC to enjoy it and plays some turns. Which one? Who knows, just some of them. And if you think he gets tactical advantage when I or any other TOFU member plays for him, this is so untrue. But it was true for josko-moon case and some other players.

c) Moonchild/other kort members were not on a vacation when his turns were taken by josko, CoF is on a vacation right now, it is legitimate for his sitters to take his turns, regardless of his ability to play them.

PS - if you have any further questions about CoF personal schedule, feel free to PM me. If you need some in-depth information - raise another C&A report and provide the games in question.

Dako wrote:CoF is on a vacation right now, it is legitimate for his sitters to take his turns, regardless of his ability to play them.

This is something that has to be straightened out by C&A mods/admin - if you are taking turns for someone on vacation, do you have to wait 24 hours when it's not a "danger of missing" type option? CoF is on vacation, he asked for sitters, which is a different situation than most of the accusations in the josko.ri thread.

Let's cut out the dog and pony show folks.

I see a lot of mention of CoF yet I am yet to see a single thread that mentions his name for any wrong doing in C&A report. Any mention of wrong doing on his part is off topic and is a false accusation.

To my fellow clan members, no need to defend him, just simply point out it is off topic to answer the questions that are being asked in the game chat and in this thread. If anyone feels there is wrong doing going on, feel free to open your own report, but until then, I would appreciate not seeing it mentioned.

This is the exact same message I have always posted when Empire members were being falsely accused. No reason to enter into a bickering match outside the guidelines that are set up for us to use.

well ok then lets look at this more open then. looking at the actual games what do they have top do with josko he is nothing to do with the clan war. he has nothing to do with the tourneys. so he was trolling cof he had no reason to be looking at them games unless to try and provoke a response.


also when you look at the 3rd game it is a clan war game were cof and josko not warned by jpcloet and other mods to stay away from each other. From what i remember they were so josko has broke a direct command from a clan moderator in a clan war game that josko was no part off.

Man this thread is intense. It's far too much like hard work to come up with something intelligent to write whilst being this drunk.

but generally i think that Tofu is right, everyone else is wrong and the sooner everyone around here learns how to skin up, the better.

eddie2 wrote:well ok then lets look at this more open then. looking at the actual games what do they have top do with josko he is nothing to do with the clan war. he has nothing to do with the tourneys. so he was trolling cof he had no reason to be looking at them games unless to try and provoke a response.


also when you look at the 3rd game it is a clan war game were cof and josko not warned by jpcloet and other mods to stay away from each other. From what i remember they were so josko has broke a direct command from a clan moderator in a clan war game that josko was no part off.

Just because thats the way they deal with you, I'm not sure you can assume a similar directive was placed on them.

Similarly, excessive trolling is discouraged, but there really is very little here that can be deemed as such. He made 5 comments in 3 games, with most being seemingly pertinent questions to him, and as he mentioned, when asked to stop he promptly did so.

Lets keep this ontopic all ! If you can't post something that will help us make a decision than please don't post.