Conquer Club

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:52 pm**

Accused:

hacx5nine
ukey

The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s):

Game 6515878

It is with great dissapointment that I make this post, having played and enjoyed many games with both the accused players, however, I believe this situation deserves futher investigation.

Arms race, it seems hacx5nine is aware that all stacks except mine have been placed in USA
2010-02-23 16:00:27 - Hacx5nine: guys
2010-02-23 16:00:34 - Hacx5nine: somone please deploy in ussr
2010-02-23 16:00:41 - Hacx5nine: i dont have any terts and we are ALL up here 2010-02-23 16:06:17 - shivi: smart hax
2010-02-23 16:10:50 - Hacx5nine: huh
2010-02-23 16:11:32 - mr cookies: i think he means getting people to come to the other side to make it easier for u
2010-02-23 16:11:49 - shivi: ye
2010-02-23 16:14:53 - Hacx5nine: except i wasnt kidding
2010-02-23 16:14:59 - Hacx5nine: all 4 of us dropped usa
2010-02-23 16:15:07 - Hacx5nine: i know.... because i saw all 4 stacks

so... rightly so as well,
2010-02-23 16:01:10 - shivi deployed 4 troops on Magadan
2010-02-23 16:01:17 - shivi assaulted USSR Launch Code from Magadan and conquered it from neutral player
understandable, something i may have done myself in the same situation. what started to make me wonder what was happening (at this point i am unaware that shivi has decided to deploy in USSR, but i feel quite confident because all the big stacks are in USA) was when people in USA stopped attacking each other.

2010-02-23 16:10:44 - Hacx5nine assaulted USA Uranium 1 from Seaborg and conquered it from shivi
2010-02-23 16:11:39 - shivi assaulted USA Uranium 1 from Los Angeles and conquered it from Hacx5nine

these are the last attacks made by any1 against each other in the USA side. but then, and this is the killer crunch for me, ukey decides that with 5 players still active, 2 on each side with 1 player spread between the 2, to climb the missile with a bonus of +7.

2010-02-23 16:14:27 - Ukey assaulted USA Silo 2 from Washington and conquered it from neutral player
2010-02-23 16:14:35 - Ukey assaulted Titan II Launch Platform from USA Silo 2 and conquered it from neutral player

So, while ukey is climbing the missile with no agreement in chat for attack order or claiming spy etc shivi deploys all his bonus in USSR

2010-02-23 16:17:17 - shivi deployed 8 troops on Magadan

he does this once more, whilst remaining unchallenged in USA and uses the stack to take complete control in USSR.

Now, I can accept that the strategy was to allow shivi to relocate to even the game out so I was not alone in USSR. what does not add up for me is the strange climbing of the missile by ukey. at the point he started to climb, there were still 5 active players, accepted, possibly he did not know that shivi had started to deploy in USSR, but even so, without an agreement in chat to share the spy/missile duties, i do not understand how he could possibly have felt safe enough with 3 players on his side of the board to climb the missile with a +7 bonus.

his explaination when questioned in chat :-
2010-02-23 16:35:14 - Ukey: I just felt like doing something different.

sorry, i dont believe that for 1 second.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:55 pm**

#1_stunna wrote:

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:06 pm**

Wow. I am not even dignifying this with a solid defense response. From the guy who was accused of horseshit like this with me and KNOWS it wasn't going on.... to throw something up there like this. I hope you enjoy having a hard time getting an arms game and being excluded from the private games now. I cannot believe you actually posted something. Ill let Ukey deal with it.

Look at his ratings and the chat in the games he loses..... two words and nothing else: sore loser.

All I will do is forward the pm during our discussion of why he was pissed.... cuz I am not wasting time defending another accusation from a sore loser. Very hypocritical to be wasting the mods time with this.

LOL and after re-reading your entire accusation.... wtf does any of this have to do with me? Im being accused of secret diplomacy .... how? where? when? I quit. Like I said to Ukey in another game following.... with all the garbage I catch on here.... Im gunna start farming or something so there can actually be a reason for me being involved in any of this crap lol. :lol:

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:09 pm**

* Quote Hacx5nine

Re: foe???????????

Sent: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:59 pm
by Hacx5nine
Im seriously on the verge of banging my head against a wall....

I had control of seaborg, launch, and the bunker. pink was in ura 1 and LA. yellow was in ura 3 and denver. ukey was in east. i had 10 from yellow and pink staring me down. then yellow smashed me in bunker. this was around the time u said something about shiv. i attack pink... yellow and or ukey wipe usa. so i took my bunker back. when i built back a few turns.. i took pink out of usa. by this time ukey was a monster.... but wtf was i supposed to do? from the drop i was surrounded.i had no path to ukey until i killed yellow.... but then i had to kill pink cuz he took over ussr.

The suicide comment.... if u dont know when im joking by now i dont know what to tell you.

Cookies no offense but when u lose u seem to fire off a lot..... which I find INCREDIBLY hard to believe after the incident with AAFitz. This is very disappointing. You also foed Ukey.... who won the game.... which makes it look even worse.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:15 pm**

hi i have been thinking about doing this as well in games as if you have troups on the silo you are gonna be safe in the game as players dont know whats up there or what you have got the missile launch down to. so they will not attack you as you control the game. also hax and ukey myself and yourself play this board alot so we dont need to have secret diplomacy when we know whats going on.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:40 pm**

lol..

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=107093&start=0

way to change your tune cookies... i will ask another mod look into this and see if this claim is in fact spurious or holds merit.

KS

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:49 pm**

i have to agree, admittedly i am not very experienced with arms race games so i cant get deep into the actions but from what ive read this is worst then Fitz accusing u and hacx.. at least fitz had some numbers and information to support his claim.. all u have is the winner saying he wanted to try something new... meh.. im surprised...

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:19 pm**

I'm gonna guess Mr Cookies knows what he's talking about when it comes to Secret Diplomacy.

This is on page 3 of HighlanderAttacks wall.

i know m8, but they are noobs and in my experience, they cant team up, at least this way a major wins to limit my point loss
by mr cookies
on Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:51 pm

Wonder what's going on here?

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:29 pm**

I only accused hax of possibly benefiting from mr cookies who simply made moves that allowed him to win many games. I will also point out, that mr cookies win rate after that supposed BS accusation skyrocketed to the point where either he had a brain transplant, or he simply tried to win.

In any case, using one game as an example is really pointless. If it happens game after game after game its suspicious, but in one game, unless there is actual dialogue, its really impossible to call it cheating.

It was also very clear that hax was a good guy and an straightforward player after the last thread.

It is frustrating to see a player give someone else a game, especially repeatedly, but in any single game, its really just not cheating.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:50 am**

jefjef wrote:I'm gonna guess Mr Cookies knows what he's talking about when it comes to Secret Diplomacy.

This is on page 3 of HighlanderAttacks wall.

i know m8, but they are noobs and in my experience, they cant team up, at least this way a major wins to limit my point loss
by mr cookies
on Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:51 pm

Wonder what's going on here?

ermmm...making a comment after i have been eliminated. hardly secret diplomacy dude

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:56 am**

AAFitz wrote:I only accused hax of possibly benefiting from mr cookies who simply made moves that allowed him to win many games. I will also point out, that mr cookies win rate after that supposed BS accusation skyrocketed to the point where either he had a brain transplant, or he simply tried to win.

In any case, using one game as an example is really pointless. If it happens game after game after game its suspicious, but in one game, unless there is actual dialogue, its really impossible to call it cheating.

It was also very clear that hax was a good guy and an straightforward player after the last thread.

It is frustrating to see a player give someone else a game, especially repeatedly, but in any single game, its really just not cheating.

I really do not see the relevance of the previous thread to this one, however let me clear a few things up. I DID NOT throw games for hacx, aafitz your accusation was wrong then and it is wrong today, but nonetheless, my winrate increased, not immediatly after this game but maybe a couple of games after when i finally got the tatics for this map after many losses. (most of which were in games with hacx admittedly but this is not indication i was giving hacx games only that i was crap at that map.... i am not anymore). it was because of your stupid accusationthat i decided to make this thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=109515

as for u cant cheat in only one game, this is not the 1st time i have come away from that map with this feeling from hacx, however it is the 1st game that i felt there was sufficient evidence to make an accusation. Anyone that knows the map, will also know that climbing the missile at that stage with the board the way it was is suicide, unless u already know the others on your sdide of the map will not attack u. Saying u cannot cheat on evidence of only 1 game is like saying u cant convict some1 of murder with only 1 dead body.... "go on son, go kill some1 else so we can compare things to see if it really is murder"

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:23 am**

Poor strategy does not equal secret diplomacy.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:28 am**

lord voldemort wrote:Poor strategy does not equal secret diplomacy.

I agree totally, but ukey has played 648 games on this map, he either knew it was bad strategy or it was safe to do it. hacx and ukey have played near 100 games together, not evidence in itself, but is highly suspicious. A quick flick of the game log as detailed above shows something is amiss here.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:00 am**

Mr. Cookies is a very hateful loser. Anytime he loses a game he flames, and then makes complaints about the winner or the person he deemed responsible for his loss.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:34 am**

Mitsuko wrote:Mr. Cookies is a very hateful loser. Anytime he loses a game he flames, and then makes complaints about the winner or the person he deemed responsible for his loss.

lmfao

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:00 am**

trapyoung wrote:
Mitsuko wrote:Mr. Cookies is a very hateful loser. Anytime he loses a game he flames, and then makes complaints about the winner or the person he deemed responsible for his loss.

lmfao

me too, seems mitsuko with his 2.8 rating wants to turn a perfectly valid thread into a childish shit slinging match after only 3 games with me. I suppose u get immature behaviour wherever u encounter children though. your shitty rating along with your gobby attitude was the reason i foed u in the 1st place mitsuko

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:33 am**

mr cookies wrote:
AAFitz wrote:I only accused hax of possibly benefiting from mr cookies who simply made moves that allowed him to win many games. I will also point out, that mr cookies win rate after that supposed BS accusation skyrocketed to the point where either he had a brain transplant, or he simply tried to win.

In any case, using one game as an example is really pointless. If it happens game after game after game its suspicious, but in one game, unless there is actual dialogue, its really impossible to call it cheating.

It was also very clear that hax was a good guy and an straightforward player after the last thread.

It is frustrating to see a player give someone else a game, especially repeatedly, but in any single game, its really just not cheating.

I really do not see the relevance of the previous thread to this one, however let me clear a few things up. I DID NOT throw games for hacx, aafitz your accusation was wrong then and it is wrong today, but nonetheless, my winrate increased, not immediatly after this game but maybe a couple of games after when i finally got the tatics for this map after many losses. (most of which were in games with hacx admittedly but this is not indication i was giving hacx games only that i was crap at that map.... i am not anymore). it was because of your stupid accusationthat i decided to make this thread viewtopic.php?f=4&t=109515

as for u cant cheat in only one game, this is not the 1st time i have come away from that map with this feeling from hacx, however it is the 1st game that i felt there was sufficient evidence to make an accusation. Anyone that knows the map, will also know that climbing the missile at that stage with the board the way it was is suicide, unless u already know the others on your sdide of the map will not attack u. Saying u cannot cheat on evidence of only 1 game is like saying u cant convict some1 of murder with only 1 dead body.... "go on son, go kill some1 else so we can compare things to see if it really is murder"

i find the bold print hillarious. because since you become competent at this map.... I have pretty much never won with you in the game. Call it a stroke of bad luck or whatever.... but that is actual FACT.

Now again.... its not a defense based on fact.... but lets just have a little shred of common sense before you make yourself look like more of a poor sport.... pal. All I have done the last two weeks is throw little temper tantrums because I keep getting 2400-2450 pts and my dice (and I guess sometimes my play :roll:

) goes to sh*t. I have been dying to recapture my hat that has been eluding me for months now. When we were playing that game yesterday.... I was somewhere between 2375 and 2400. Ukey : captain. You: major. Lets just say for a second I have EVER thrown a game to someone for any reason (not so much). Why.... on God's green Earth.... would I hand the game to Ukey? You just don't have one solid reason to think I would do that. We have played more games together than you and I ... yes. But... since you have joined.... Id probably bet a premium that you and I have played more games than Ukey and I.

I don't think I need to defend myself anymore... and shouldn't have from the beginning. But this is so aggravating and ridiculous that at this point I just want to make you look dumber. Sorry.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:00 am**

no apologies needed. I understand your reaction, but as u well know also, climbing the missile in that situation was ridiculous and suicidal at best, something in that game stinks, and it was me that paid for it. this post was not intended to piss people off, although i am aware that inevitably that is going to be the result. this post was not a reaction instinct, i waited until fog was lifted so i could be sure from the game log as to exactly what happened. I accept your explanation as to why u did not remove pink because of the yellow suicide to you. what i cannot accept is ukey was so tatically retarded to make a move like that without something else being involved. I have searched near on 50 arms race games...... NOT ONE player has climbed the missile without at least 1 side being played solo. the explanation of "i wanted to try something different" just doesnt hold water from a player with that kind of experience on that map.... sorry

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:03 am**

mr cookies wrote:
trapyoung wrote:
Mitsuko wrote:Mr. Cookies is a very hateful loser. Anytime he loses a game he flames, and then makes complaints about the winner or the person he deemed responsible for his loss.

lmfao

me too, seems mitsuko with his 2.8 rating wants to turn a perfectly valid thread into a childish shit slinging match after only 3 games with me. I suppose u get immature behaviour wherever u encounter children though. your shitty rating along with your gobby attitude was the reason i foed u in the 1st place mitsuko

I think his point is that your demeanor in the thread, your game chat, and your overall air of unsportsmanlike behavior do indeed mean people should view such an accusation as a possible unsportsmanlike act. With his accusation, there actually is evidence however.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:08 am**

mr cookies wrote: Saying u cannot cheat on evidence of only 1 game is like saying u cant convict some1 of murder with only 1 dead body.... "go on son, go kill some1 else so we can compare things to see if it really is murder"

Your analogy is incorrect... what you cannot do is convict someone of murder without enough evidence, and in this case, you have one game where hax made a move that changed a game.... EVERY game has that, so unless you can show why he did it, or that he did it in other games, he simply HAS the right to make that choice.

What differentiates this with my accusation of YOU throwing games, was that hax was always the benefactor of you somehow not knowing how to win, until the day after that supposedly made up accusation, when you miraculously seemed to know how to win those 5 player games with a great win percent, and the pattern disappeared completely. Personally, I suspect hax knew what you were doing in those, and took preventative measures to not allow you to throw games anymore, because as I said before, its very clear he is a good player and a good guy, who believes in the integrity of the game, and has proved it repeatedly...where as, through your posts and ratings...well... in my opinion, you have not.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:13 am**

AAFitz wrote:
mr cookies wrote: Saying u cannot cheat on evidence of only 1 game is like saying u cant convict some1 of murder with only 1 dead body.... "go on son, go kill some1 else so we can compare things to see if it really is murder"

Your analogy is incorrect... what you cannot do is convict someone of murder without enough evidence, and in this case, you have one game where hax made a move that changed a game.... EVERY game has that, so unless you can show why he did it, or that he did it in other games, he simply HAS the right to make that choice.

What differentiates this with my accusation of YOU throwing games, was that hax was always the benefactor of you somehow not knowing how to win, until the day after that supposedly made up accusation, when you miraculously seemed to know how to win those 5 player games with a great win percent, and the pattern disappeared completely. Personally, I suspect hax knew what you were doing in those, and took preventative measures to not allow you to throw games anymore, because as I said before, its very clear he is a good player and a good guy, who believes in the integrity of the game, and has proved it repeatedly...where as, through your posts and ratings...well... in my opinion, you have not.

GEt you facts straight before you post please. firstly, it was not hacx's "gamechanging move" that i have a problem with. and secondly, it was not straight after your false accusation i finally got the tatics right here... it took another 2-3 games or so before my win % rose... but to be fair, u turned the last thread u were involved in from a hacx/cookies cheat thread into a all hate cookiers thread. your responce to my rating of u stating i was "warned" was incorrect, it was noted..... seems u have a problem with accurate information

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:21 am**

hax and cookie do me a favour kiss and make up please as arms speed games taking to long to fill up now. we are all online same time and play the same game. so is now fluffing up time to fill up the games thanks.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:38 am**

mr cookies wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
mr cookies wrote: Saying u cannot cheat on evidence of only 1 game is like saying u cant convict some1 of murder with only 1 dead body.... "go on son, go kill some1 else so we can compare things to see if it really is murder"

Your analogy is incorrect... what you cannot do is convict someone of murder without enough evidence, and in this case, you have one game where hax made a move that changed a game.... EVERY game has that, so unless you can show why he did it, or that he did it in other games, he simply HAS the right to make that choice.

What differentiates this with my accusation of YOU throwing games, was that hax was always the benefactor of you somehow not knowing how to win, until the day after that supposedly made up accusation, when you miraculously seemed to know how to win those 5 player games with a great win percent, and the pattern disappeared completely. Personally, I suspect hax knew what you were doing in those, and took preventative measures to not allow you to throw games anymore, because as I said before, its very clear he is a good player and a good guy, who believes in the integrity of the game, and has proved it repeatedly...where as, through your posts and ratings...well... in my opinion, you have not.

GEt you facts straight before you post please. firstly, it was not hacx's "gamechanging move" that i have a problem with. and secondly, it was not straight after your false accusation i finally got the tatics right here... it took another 2-3 games or so before my win % rose... but to be fair, u turned the last thread u were involved in from a hacx/cookies cheat thread into a all hate cookiers thread. your responce to my rating of u stating i was "warned" was incorrect, it was noted..... seems u have a problem with accurate information

You were warned to be more careful in games with hax as to not look as though you were throwing games.
I admit, it was you who posted that very fact, so perhaps I shouldn't have believed it at face value.

In any case, my response to your rating, which was just retaliatory for making a cheating thread for you throwing yet another game, is completely up to me. I thank you for the opportunity to share the case with others.

As far as making it a hate cookies thread...I only was pointing out that you were attacking everyone but hax, and that he was winning a massive percentage of games, while you never won the games...until as you say, 2 or 3 games passed, and then you went on to prove you indeed knew how to play the map, and probably were throwing the games the whole time. In any case, I only mentioned that case, because in that case, there were many examples and many games where your moves were suspicious...but here, you present one game where he made a move that someone else one....that is fairly typical in EVERY game.

Show other games where hes purposely throwing them though, if they exist, but with only one, its very difficult to prove, and its also someones right to throw an individual game, unless its payback for something outside of the game itself.

Besides, you were shown to be throwing games repeatedly and only got noted and warned to be careful...what did you expect to get out of this one... the fact that hax made a move in one game that helped someone else win. Well, perhaps that should be noted, but I have about 3000 games where I made the wrong move too and someone else won. I however, make sure the same person doesnt win every game though.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:46 am**

The throwing games rule was made for these situations.

Someone dumping points in all games.

Someone even dumping in many games.

Someone throwing games to one player, or possibly even one group of players repeatedly

Someone joining a game with the purpose of throwing the game.

It was not meant to block someone from their right to throw a game, for reasons created within that game... for that aspect of the game, IS the game. That is the psychological part of the game, and while they do seem at first to be the same thing, they are completely different. One must retain their right to smash another player, if they feel they have been slighted in the game in question. That is why you must be careful in attacking other players, because the fear of retribution, even to the point of throwing the game is a possibility.

However, one cannot do this in many games, especially when its clear they are never trying to win, or one player is the recipient more often than not.

It is not against the rules to throw a game as you suggest hax did in this case, unless you can prove, he was doing it with secret diplomacy, has done it before for this player, or was doing it to spite you or someone else in the game, for something that happened outside, or before the game started. Mind you, even then it will be tough, but in this case, all that is there, is one example of him giving the game to a random player. It simply isnt enough to call attention to, unless there is a pattern.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:57 am**

to summarise what fitz said...to convict someone of a secret alliance or throwing games...there needs to be a build up of evidence. We wont block people from one game that looks a lil suspect. Sure from what I can see and know of arms race it looks a tiny bit 'suss.' However I do not feel that this is enough to have any actions taken. If you can provide us with more evidence of these two being in a secret alliance then we can act from there.

Conquer Club

hacx5nine/ukey [noted]

hacx5nine/ukey [noted]

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