Conquer Club

chaosfactor



The accused are suspected of:

Other: Deliberately throwing games and serial teammate killing

Game number(s):

Game 6378373


Comments:

chaosfactor mistook what I said in game chat as "condescending" and has decided to throw game by killing off his teammates. We are on the same team and he has been nothing but rude and has attacked me the whole time. On top of it, he has made it public in the game chat that he was going to attacking his teammates and deliberately throw the game for the other team. I do believe this is direct violation of CC rules.

My original comments are as such:

"2010-02-03 20:26:15 - MNDuke [team]: hi chaos
2010-02-03 20:26:27 - MNDuke [team]: not sure what your team experience is like
2010-02-03 20:26:36 - MNDuke [team]: but please listen and work together with us
2010-02-03 20:26:41 - MNDuke [team]: don't kill teammates
2010-02-03 20:26:54 - MNDuke [team]: always pass troops to the person who goes after if you can
2010-02-03 20:27:02 - MNDuke [team]: those are the keys to success
2010-02-03 20:27:13 - MNDuke [team]: also communication is needed
2010-02-03 20:27:28 - MNDuke [team]: this is spoils so try and take a card every turn
2010-02-03 20:28:53 - MNDuke [team]: feel free to take nadar from me
2010-02-03 20:29:04 - MNDuke [team]: but hit kemmuna first"

He then replied:
2010-02-04 18:23:09 - chaosfactor [team]: In all my time since playing this game since its year of birth, 2006 I have never seen such condescending bullshit from another team player..
2010-02-04 18:23:33 - chaosfactor [team]: Don't kill team-mates!
2010-02-04 18:24:08 - chaosfactor [team]: Its a spoils game!
2010-02-04 18:25:15 - chaosfactor [team]: Pricks like you MNDUKE ruin games before they are even started, you really know how to big up a team-mate don'tcha
2010-02-04 18:26:26 - chaosfactor [team]: 'Please fucking listen', whats that about? I left school years ago you areshole, I don't need a child to lecture me in how to play risk
2010-02-04 18:28:14 - chaosfactor [team]: Hey why don't you tell me how to operate the ignore player option as well...
2010-02-04 18:28:39 - chaosfactor [team]: perhaps you would like to explain how to wipe my fucking arse someday
2010-02-04 18:30:10 - chaosfactor [team]: reinforce that one you wanker
2010-02-04 18:36:42 - chaosfactor [team]: Sorry Blue, not your fault, better luck with your choice of team-mates next time..

and these were his actions:
2010-02-04 18:26:36 - chaosfactor received 3 troops for 6 regions
2010-02-04 18:26:44 - chaosfactor deployed 3 troops on Birzebbugia
2010-02-04 18:26:56 - chaosfactor assaulted Zejtun from Birzebbugia and conquered it from MNDuke
2010-02-04 18:27:00 - chaosfactor assaulted Fgura from Zejtun and conquered it from MNDuke
2010-02-04 18:27:19 - chaosfactor assaulted Nadur from Qala and conquered it from MNDuke
2010-02-04 18:27:38 - chaosfactor reinforced Zebbug with 2 troops from Siggiewi
2010-02-04 18:27:38 - chaosfactor ended the turn and got spoils

He then posts this in the game chat. This was to everyone not just teammates only.

2010-02-06 00:31:00 - chaosfactor: alright huckleberry hounds, you really got me there! Wow! The Kharma police are gonna bust me at my palace, shit!!
2010-02-06 00:33:25 - chaosfactor: Hey people from the other side, just to keep you in check, MNDUKE made some radical condescending statements towards me, made out I was a complete prick in fact...
2010-02-06 00:34:07 - chaosfactor: I don't deal with that bull-shit, so bully for you, its 4 versus two!
2010-02-06 00:35:05 - chaosfactor: All you have to do is play kool and I will help you rid these idiots from the board.
2010-02-06 00:36:11 - chaosfactor: go again MNDUKE how you are going to bust my arse......?
2010-02-06 00:41:21 - chaosfactor: Two bit brothers acting as a mafia in CC does not rub, !!!!!

His round 2 actions:

2010-02-07 07:56:04 - chaosfactor received 3 troops for 7 regions
2010-02-07 07:56:11 - chaosfactor deployed 3 troops on Zebbug
2010-02-07 07:56:16 - chaosfactor assaulted Dingli from Zebbug and conquered it from MNDuke
2010-02-07 07:56:21 - chaosfactor assaulted Siggiewi from Dingli and conquered it from MNDuke
2010-02-07 07:56:43 - chaosfactor reinforced Zejtun with 2 troops from Cottonera
2010-02-07 07:56:43 - chaosfactor ended the turn and got spoils

In 2 rounds he has taken 5 regions from me to intentionally benefit the other team and has not even tried to keep this secret.

I do believe this is rude behavior and malicious on his part. If I'm not mistaken the rules do state:

"Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits."

What he's doing is not fair to me or my teammate. I don't think what I said warrants this kind of response and don't feel I should have to put up with it. Please look into this to help prevent similar situations from this player in the future. I have heard from others that this particular player makes a habit out of being rude to teammates.

I really hate creating these damn things, but hey, I don't find them, they find me.

I would probably not have reacted in quite the same way as Chaos but your comments to him were indeed unbelievably condescending, got no sympathy whatsoever for you here. If you carry on talking down to people in such a way then I would expect similar reactions in the future, you need to get some people skills my friend.

i never thought i would agree with chaosfactor. and i dont fully agree with him here either. but i dont totally disagree with him either.

i have seen cases like this in the past. and i think the outcome of this one will be foe and move on, and chaos may get noted/if not warned. but he had reason to do what he did. you talked to him like he was 5 years old.

i always tell people to pm me with questions...and if they make shitty moves, i dont invite them to any more games.

Don't cry little one, just

FAMO!

Please explain what is condescending about what I said. I don't see how it is. I acknowledged that I don't know what his team experience is like and asked him to politely listen and communicate with us. I guess I don't find that condescending. Especially considering this is the first time I've played with him, I did not invite him to the game and he joined. Recently in games I have been playing with people I haven't played with before, they have no idea how to play team games and are lost. I was only trying to be helpful as it was our first time playing together and I had no idea what his experience is like. Is it really so hard to say "yeah, I know how to play" or "I've been playing for awhile and know what I'm doing."

Please explain how what I said was condescending or talking down to someone instead of just telling me you think it is. What should I have done? What would you have done?

MNDuke wrote:Please explain what is condescending about what I said. I don't see how it is. I acknowledged that I don't know what his team experience is like and asked him to politely listen and communicate with us. I guess I don't find that condescending. Especially considering this is the first time I've played with him, I did not invite him to the game and he joined. Recently in games I have been playing with people I haven't played with before, they have no idea how to play team games and are lost. I was only trying to be helpful as it was our first time playing together and I had no idea what his experience is like. Is it really so hard to say "yeah, I know how to play" or "I've been playing for awhile and know what I'm doing."

Please explain how what I said was condescending or talking down to someone instead of just telling me you think it is. What should I have done? What would you have done?

FAMO!

Seriously, not everyone you team up with is gonna be a normal, sane individual. That's why people tend to NOT team up with randoms. If they do, they take the risk (hey, the game!) that they will be irrational, suck at playing, be assholes, ect. So what do you do? NOT PLAY WITH THEM ANYMORE AND RATE THEM ACCORDINGLY.

It sucks, I know, you didn't really do anything wrong, except come crying to C&A about it. This forum is SUPPOSED to be for dealing with bigger and nastier things, and that's why people don't really bleed for cases like this....

chaos IS BREAKING THE RULES. Just cuz he's thin skinned he has no right to throw the game. It's bull shit.

WARNING IS DUE if it continues.

jefjef wrote:chaos IS BREAKING THE RULES. Just cuz he's thin skinned he has no right to throw the game. It's bull shit.

WARNING IS DUE.

Bout time you showed up to balance out my "take care of it yourself" pragmatism with your patented "Ze ModReich vill smite your small annoyances Mach Schnell!" Totalitarianism.

how many times have you FAMO'ed Jefjef instead of making a C&A report? or do you actually report EVERYTHING...

chaos was provoked. i dont blame him a bit. i wouldnt have acted that way. but chaos is a nut. we all know that.

Just to be clear, i dont' think that chaosfactor is NOT being an ass here.

Its just that this is the type of shit that the rating system is meant for, with the tags and what not.

the gross abuse of rules and C&A is for SERIAL issues like this. not one off things. If everyone posted a thread about someone who did weak shit like this, deadbeated once, made a bad turn and ended up throwing a game, this place would be filled with crap.

Oh wait...

jefjef wrote:chaos IS BREAKING THE RULES. Just cuz he's thin skinned he has no right to throw the game. It's bull shit.

WARNING IS DUE if it continues.

Why is there even a question about this?
He stated it in chat. He stated that he was going to kill his own team. He stated it in chat!
Listen, I don't consider what Duke wrote to be condescending at all; to me he was trying to tell a player that joined his game that he had not played with before, the ground rules. Whats wrong with that? There is no name calling, no swearing, no nothing like that. Chaosfactor has, at best...silver in team medals, while that leads one to believe he has played a few team games it certainly doesn't make him a master. Duke has every right (as do we all) to essentially, ask Chaosfactor about his experience and let him know whats expected. Chaosfactor COMPLETELY OVER-REACTED and clearly, knowingly (it seems), broke the rules.

Not for nothing but it doesn't matter what Duke said anyway, serial teammate killing is not allowed and that is that.

L M S wrote:
Not for nothing but it doesn't matter what Duke said anyway, serial teammate killing is not allowed and that is that.

Thats all good but it's not SERIAL teamate killing, unless you have more evidence Kojack?

ronc8649 wrote:chaos was provoked. i dont blame him a bit. i wouldnt have acted that way. but chaos is a nut. we all know that.

How was he provoked? What did I say that warranted such? You like to tell me what I did wrong, but do not explain how it was wrong. I've never played with chaos before, so, to say that "we all know that" (in reference to him being a nut) is beyond reason. I had no idea he would act that way and was only trying to be helpful as I have no idea what his team experience is like.

I said "hi" the first thing i told him was, "not sure what your team experience is like" I think that is pretty to the point and saying "hey, I don't know you or how your games have gone in the past, but just in case you don't know, here are some tips that will help us win." All he had to say was "I know what I'm doing or thanks, i know how to play."

I guess I just don't see how its condescening. I didn't say "hey you suck and you don't know what you are doing so listen up asshole." Its not like I'm trying to tell a general how to play. I guess i'm just crazy. I've been burned by too many people who don't know what they are doing in team games and was trying to prevent a problem before it happened. I still don't get it though.

Snowgun wrote:Just to be clear, i dont' think that chaosfactor is NOT being an ass here.

Its just that this is the type of shit that the rating system is meant for, with the tags and what not.

the gross abuse of rules and C&A is for SERIAL issues like this. not one off things. If everyone posted a thread about someone who did weak shit like this, deadbeated once, made a bad turn and ended up throwing a game, this place would be filled with crap.

Oh wait...

I fucking hate making these damn things. No one is helpful and just reply to try and make you feel like an ass for making a complaint. How is that productive in the least bit? I don't know how to make him stop killing off his own team. I've asked him to and told him he was violating the rules, yet he continued. How else I am supposed to get my point across? Do you recommend that I should just deadbeat the game?

Snowgun wrote:

jefjef wrote:chaos IS BREAKING THE RULES. Just cuz he's thin skinned he has no right to throw the game. It's bull shit.

WARNING IS DUE.

Bout time you showed up to balance out my "take care of it yourself" pragmatism with your patented "Ze ModReich vill smite your small annoyances Mach Schnell!" Totalitarianism.

how many times have you FAMO'ed Jefjef instead of making a C&A report? or do you actually report EVERYTHING...

Er hat Absicht erklärt, und hat damit begonnen, das Spiel zu werfen. Wenn er tatsächlich einstellt und versucht, die Mannschaft als das ist das Ende davon profitieren. Wenn er weiterhin als es sich um eine Regelverletzung. Nr. ifs ands oder Kippen.

MNDuke wrote:

ronc8649 wrote:chaos was provoked. i dont blame him a bit. i wouldnt have acted that way. but chaos is a nut. we all know that.

How was he provoked? What did I say that warranted such? You like to tell me what I did wrong, but do not explain how it was wrong. I've never played with chaos before, so, to say that "we all know that" (in reference to him being a nut) is beyond reason. I had no idea he would act that way and was only trying to be helpful as I have no idea what his team experience is like.

I said "hi" the first thing i told him was, "not sure what your team experience is like" I think that is pretty to the point and saying "hey, I don't know you or how your games have gone in the past, but just in case you don't know, here are some tips that will help us win." All he had to say was "I know what I'm doing or thanks, i know how to play."

I guess I just don't see how its condescening. I didn't say "hey you suck and you don't know what you are doing so listen up asshole." Its not like I'm trying to tell a general how to play. I guess i'm just crazy. I've been burned by too many people who don't know what they are doing in team games and was trying to prevent a problem before it happened. I still don't get it though.

IMHO it wasn't you at all, it was him. Some people might think you were a little on the high horsey side, but some people (myself included) don't particularly think so. WHATEVER, the point is that
A. he fucked up your game.
B. you want to open up a official CC report to have someone deal with the fact that he fucked up ONE game due to a communication error (even if you are in the right and he took something completely out of context)

I'm saying hey, that sucks, just rate and foe the guy, don't let him play with you, tell your friends he's an asshole, and don't partner with him again. I'm also saying there is no need for a C&A report for this one issue.

Snowgun wrote:

L M S wrote:
Not for nothing but it doesn't matter what Duke said anyway, serial teammate killing is not allowed and that is that.

Thats all good but it's not SERIAL teamate killing, unless you have more evidence Kojack?

Kojack? What is that supposed to imply Snowgun? Name calling? Really? To what end and for what purpose? Why is that necessary?

However to satisfy you, the "more evidence" you have requested follows:

If you read the complaint thoroughly, Chasosfactor clearly states it is now "4 on 2" more precisely this is what he said...
"chaosfactor: I don't deal with that bull-shit, so bully for you, its 4 versus two!"
and
"chaosfactor: All you have to do is play kool and I will help you rid these idiots from the board."

Now, while stating (as well as executing) clear intentions on killing one team mate may not qualify as SERIAL team mate killing...certainly stating clear intentions on killing both team mates does.

Wouldn't you agree?

Just This one game will not of course be considered Serial killing.

But this one game IS enough for intentional throwing of game.

L M S wrote:

Snowgun wrote:

L M S wrote:
Not for nothing but it doesn't matter what Duke said anyway, serial teammate killing is not allowed and that is that.

Thats all good but it's not SERIAL teamate killing, unless you have more evidence Kojack?

Kojack? What is that supposed to imply Snowgun? Name calling? Really? To what end and for what purpose? Why is that necessary?

However to satisfy you, the "more evidence" you have requested follows:

If you read the complaint thoroughly, Chasosfactor clearly states it is now "4 on 2" more precisely this is what he said...
"chaosfactor: I don't deal with that bull-shit, so bully for you, its 4 versus two!"
and
"chaosfactor: All you have to do is play kool and I will help you rid these idiots from the board."

Now, while stating (as well as executing) clear intentions on killing one team mate may not qualify as SERIAL team mate killing...certainly stating clear intentions on killing both team mates does.

Wouldn't you agree?

Relax, Kojack is a compliment to your l337 CSI skillz.

Your weak definition of SERIAL is just not gonna cut it though. The C&A forum is not your personal whip to punish the occasional asshole. They are supposed to be a REPEAT or SERIOUS threat to the integrity of CC.

Snowgun wrote:

MNDuke wrote:

ronc8649 wrote:chaos was provoked. i dont blame him a bit. i wouldnt have acted that way. but chaos is a nut. we all know that.

How was he provoked? What did I say that warranted such? You like to tell me what I did wrong, but do not explain how it was wrong. I've never played with chaos before, so, to say that "we all know that" (in reference to him being a nut) is beyond reason. I had no idea he would act that way and was only trying to be helpful as I have no idea what his team experience is like.

I said "hi" the first thing i told him was, "not sure what your team experience is like" I think that is pretty to the point and saying "hey, I don't know you or how your games have gone in the past, but just in case you don't know, here are some tips that will help us win." All he had to say was "I know what I'm doing or thanks, i know how to play."

I guess I just don't see how its condescening. I didn't say "hey you suck and you don't know what you are doing so listen up asshole." Its not like I'm trying to tell a general how to play. I guess i'm just crazy. I've been burned by too many people who don't know what they are doing in team games and was trying to prevent a problem before it happened. I still don't get it though.

IMHO it wasn't you at all, it was him. Some people might think you were a little on the high horsey side, but some people (myself included) don't particularly think so. WHATEVER, the point is that
A. he fucked up your game.
B. you want to open up a official CC report to have someone deal with the fact that he fucked up ONE game due to a communication error (even if you are in the right and he took something completely out of context)

I'm saying hey, that sucks, just rate and foe the guy, don't let him play with you, tell your friends he's an asshole, and don't partner with him again. I'm also saying there is no need for a C&A report for this one issue.

If I don't file a report what's to prevent him from doing this in the future? Essentially by doing nothing it is just reinforcing this behavior and telling him he is right to go ahead and continue acting this way. There is no need to feed his ego and allow him to further effect other people with his unrighteous attitude.

jefjef wrote:Just This one game will not of course be considered Serial killing.

But this one game IS enough for intentional throwing of game.

Well, if we are gonna pull out technicalities....

he didn't imply he wanted to THROW the game, just that he wanted to get rid of his teammate.

2010-02-06 00:34:07 - chaosfactor: I don't deal with that bull-shit, so bully for you, its 4 versus two!

he still want's to play, or he would have suicided.

I know you guys are trying REAL hard to ding this guy but lets just let MNduke foe and rate him and maybe we can all move on?

mnduke wrote:if I don't file a report what's to prevent him from doing this in the future? Essentially by doing nothing it is just reinforcing this behavior and telling him he is right to go ahead and continue acting this way. There is no need to feed his ego and allow him to further effect other people with his unrighteous attitude.

This is exactly what the rating system is for, to tell people about other people's playing habits! Rate him badly, tag him, foe him and tell him so, then tell others to foe him. If he continues it will get around. It happens with other people and people know. Look at Dom quebec, etc.

Maybe not in one game, serial..... maybe you are right. I will state this though.

The chances of Chaosfactor just now coming up with his "strategy" to punish his own team in the event they irritate him are slim to none.

I think that the definition of serial teammate killing is open to wide interpretation.
Consider these......
Would killing a teammate in multiple games be serial teammate killing?
Would killing a teammate multiple times in one game be serial teammate killing?

Now add on the written intention of killing the other teammate multiple times in not only one game, but the very same game?



Either way, a warning is due for at the very least intentionally throwing a game. I happen to think the offense is warrant for more than that, simply because I doubt it is the first time Chaosfactor has done this to his own team.
I suppose I could be wrong about that part.

Poor ratings don't stop him from joining other people's game and behaving similarly. That is why I feel this was pertinent. It's not about dinging someone who disagrees with me. It's about preventing similar situations from happening to assholes who don't think the rules apply to them. Either way, I'm done wasting my time with this. Hopefully some action is taken.

L M S wrote:I think that the definition of serial teammate killing is open to wide interpretation.
Consider these......
Would killing a teammate in multiple games be serial teammate killing?

YES!

L M S wrote:Would killing a teammate multiple times in one game be serial teammate killing?

ah, did you read that carefully? You can't kill people multiple times in a game. (taking terts is not the same)

MNDuke wrote:Poor ratings don't stop him from joining other people's game and behaving similarly. That is why I feel this was pertinent. It's not about dinging someone who disagrees with me. It's about preventing similar situations from happening to assholes who don't think the rules apply to them. Either way, I'm done wasting my time with this. Hopefully some action is taken.

I feel your frustration. However, the foeing system, as well as the rating system, attempts to accomplish these things as much as possible.

Now you need to ask yourself...Why put these systems here in the first place when we can simply create a C&A thread for every infraction! Every time someone makes a bad move or yells at us or deadbeats, we can just make a nifty C&A thread and the mods will take care of it straight away!

Think about that real hard. It comes down to logistics.

Snowgun wrote:

L M S wrote:I think that the definition of serial teammate killing is open to wide interpretation.
Consider these......
Would killing a teammate in multiple games be serial teammate killing?

YES!

L M S wrote:[b]Would killing a teammate multiple times in one game be serial teammate killing?

ah, did you read that carefully? You can't kill people multiple times in a game. (taking terts is not the same)

MNDuke wrote:Poor ratings don't stop him from joining other people's game and behaving similarly. That is why I feel this was pertinent. It's not about dinging someone who disagrees with me. It's about preventing similar situations from happening to assholes who don't think the rules apply to them. Either way, I'm done wasting my time with this. Hopefully some action is taken.

I feel your frustration. However, the foeing system, as well as the rating system, attempts to accomplish these things as much as possible.

Now you need to ask yourself...Why put these systems here in the first place when we can simply create a C&A thread for every infraction! Every time someone makes a bad move or yells at us or deadbeats, we can just make a nifty C&A thread and the mods will take care of it straight away!

Think about that real hard. It comes down to logistics.

Sigh.
Don't be obtuse Snowgun. Please put the proposed questions into individual, situational circumstances before you jump to your conclusions. Obviously one cannot be killed off multiple times in one game.

Why is it different in your mind, the two situations?

Lastly, check this Game 5318233, in about round 8 he started killing off is own teammate because he was irritated by something he had done earlier in the game (he took one territory from him)...clearly stating he was planning on doing so.
As they say..........same old dog, same old tricks.