Conquer Club

Accused:

SeaLandMaster


The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy
Bigotry




Game number(s):

6095667



Comments:

This is the Game Chat relevant to the incidents:

Game Chat

2009-12-21 11:01:12 - SeaLandMaster: ok dudes
2009-12-21 11:02:11 - SeaLandMaster: i love gay unions
2009-12-21 13:40:18 - mcgiffen: Whom is a Gay union? You are the one that was sending me a PM to gang against Blue, although I still played any game that I would have played

I hope I have filled this out correctly. Apologies for any inadvertant clerical or procedural errors.

nickzi wrote:Accused:

SeaLandMaster


The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy
Bigotry




Game number(s):

Game 6095667



Comments:

This is the Game Chat relevant to the incidents:

Game Chat

2009-12-21 11:01:12 - SeaLandMaster: ok dudes
2009-12-21 11:02:11 - SeaLandMaster: i love gay unions
2009-12-21 13:40:18 - mcgiffen: Whom is a Gay union? You are the one that was sending me a PM to gang against Blue, although I still played any game that I would have played

I hope I have filled this out correctly. Apologies for any inadvertant clerical or procedural errors.

Fixed links. You should get mcgiffen to share that PM and post it.

I have sent mcgiffen a PM to ask him to share the relevant PM from SeaLandMaster. I would also point out the unnecessary gay slur in the Game Chat as evidence of bigotry.

nickzi wrote:I have sent mcgiffen a PM to ask him to share the relevant PM from SeaLandMaster. I would also point out the unnecessary gay slur in the Game Chat as evidence of bigotry.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing any type of a slur at all in the Game Chat portion you provided in this thread, never mind a gay slur. Is there something that's in the Game Chat that you didn't provide here?

All I'm seeing here is secret diplomacy potential.

I'd say accusing other players of a "gay union" is a slur, both on those players and on gay people by using their identity as an insult. Seems like pretty standard issue bigotry/homophobia to me. If I had called out two other players, unfairly, for forming a "Jewish union" I think it would be pretty clear that I was trying to insult them in an anti-Semitic way.

nickzi wrote:I'd say accusing other players of a "gay union" is a slur, both on those players and on gay people by using their identity as an insult. Seems like pretty standard issue bigotry/homophobia to me. If I had called out two other players, unfairly, for forming a "Jewish union" I think it would be pretty clear that I was trying to insult them in an anti-Semitic way.

Where specifically did he accuse anyone of a gay union?

2009-12-21 11:02:11 - SeaLandMaster: i love gay unions

He's clearly addressing the other players who had, sensibly enough, been attacking him before he became too strong to stop. Specifically, mcgiffen and me.

In this game he starts diplomacy speaking Portuguese Game 5925889. Another violation seeing how not all in that game spoke it.

the language is not bad at all.

Sure, it's perfectly acceptable to call people gay when you are losing. Perfectly normal and acceptable. Nothing wrong with the language at all.

nickzi wrote:Sure, it's perfectly acceptable to call people gay when you are losing. Perfectly normal and acceptable. Nothing wrong with the language at all.

The question is...can you specifically point out where he called someone gay? I disagree with you, if you're going to make the same reference you did to my previous question.

Woodruff, how else do you explain calling the other players a "gay union" when he began to lose? I am sorry, but I don't see that you are doing anything but split hairs here. What else do you think he meant? Was he endorsing gay marriage, perhaps? Look at his record - I am far from the first to find him rude, as you can see in the rating of him by others.

nickzi wrote:Woodruff, how else do you explain calling the other players a "gay union" when he began to lose? I am sorry, but I don't see that you are doing anything but split hairs here. What else do you think he meant? Was he endorsing gay marriage, perhaps? Look at his record - I am far from the first to find him rude, as you can see in the rating of him by others.

Prove it.

The point I'm really trying to make here is that his statement is really QUITE FAR from homophobic. Was it rude? I suppose I would call it that if forced to make a decision, but it's barely even that. Seriously.

I should also point out that I DESPISE homophobic statements and, in fact, I despise how rude folks get on this site. But this...it's not even worth the time you took to type it out.

Alright, Woodruff, since you don't have any explanation to offer of why he said what he did - and mcgiffen took it as aimed at us, as the game chat shows - here's a suggestion. Next time you are out and about, walk into a bar, walk up to two men who are talking, look at them and say what SeaLand said. I guarantee you, you won't enjoy the reaction. You haven't offered a shred of a reason to take your hair-splitting seriously. You explain just what he meant by talking about "gay unions" to two other gamers, or else admit that you don't have a clue here. As for your self-proclaimed hatred of rudeness, I'd say it was pretty rude to come here, offer no explanation of why the guy said what he said, and then deliver patronizing lectures about how virtuous you are. If you are comfortable with using "gay" as an insult, be honest about it. If not, cut out the sanctimonious waffle.

nickzi wrote:Alright, Woodruff, since you don't have any explanation to offer of why he said what he did - and mcgiffen took it as aimed at us, as the game chat shows - here's a suggestion. Next time you are out and about, walk into a bar, walk up to two men who are talking, look at them and say what SeaLand said. I guarantee you, you won't enjoy the reaction. You haven't offered a shred of a reason to take your hair-splitting seriously. You explain just what he meant by talking about "gay unions" to two other gamers, or else admit that you don't have a clue here. As for your self-proclaimed hatred of rudeness, I'd say it was pretty rude to come here, offer no explanation of why the guy said what he said, and then deliver patronizing lectures about how virtuous you are. If you are comfortable with using "gay" as an insult, be honest about it. If not, cut out the sanctimonious waffle.

And again I say...prove it. You are making the accusation, so the burden of proof lies with you, not I.

I've been thoroughly honest about it...I am NOT comfortable with using "gay" as an insult, nor do I think anyone doing so is a good thing. And yet, the fact remains that what was said in that gamechat is simply not homophobic nor is it even particularly rude. It's simply not. If you can't handle that minor tweaking, you should really eliminate yourself from all online interaction, because you will find yourself to be a very unhappy individual.

he says i love gay unions this could only be interpreted as derogatory if he explicitly mentions sarcasm.

Riiiiight. Well, I can see that people here are perfectly happy with some casual homophobia. Sorry to have taken your rules seriously.

Your taking that chat way too hard loosen those cheeks an just let it slide. Have you read some of the game chat with KH and demon? I don't think you have. This is really mild stuff

I am waiting a response from mcgiffen about the PM concerning secret diplomacy.

As far as bigotry I really think it is a stretch but it will be noted.

Evil Semp wrote:I am waiting a response from mcgiffen about the PM concerning secret diplomacy.

As far as bigotry I really think it is a stretch but it will be noted.

Well if you're going to note it, then you REALLY need to give the guy a heads-up about it. Not a formal warning...but at least make him aware that there's a note regarding it. To not do so would be patently unfair.

Woodruff wrote:

Evil Semp wrote:I am waiting a response from mcgiffen about the PM concerning secret diplomacy.

As far as bigotry I really think it is a stretch but it will be noted.

Well if you're going to note it, then you REALLY need to give the guy a heads-up about it. Not a formal warning...but at least make him aware that there's a note regarding it. To not do so would be patently unfair.

I agree Woodruff.

Woodruff wrote:Well if you're going to note it, then you REALLY need to give the guy a heads-up about it. Not a formal warning...but at least make him aware that there's a note regarding it. To not do so would be patently unfair.

Any kind of Note on an account in a situation like this the user is informed of (90% of the time).

I too agree that while bigotry is not something to take light, and it is something we take serious here, that there are too many ways to interpret what was said in the 1 sentence of context that there is in that game chat, and you cant really go around punishing people for it when their can be the chance of it being an error of context.

Hence why this will be Noted on his account for further cases that could involve the same sorts of behavior. As for the diplomacy bit the big orange guy (Evil Semp) will need to get forwarded that PM to make a ruling on that part.

nickzi, a word of advice if I can pass on to you as constructive criticism would be not to take everything offensively. This website has a wide variety of characters on it, and C&A is frequented by the best of them. Which is a good thing, cause your always going to see outside perspectives on the same situation, but it also means that from time to time you wont have the whole community backing what you are saying, and may question it a bit here and there. Woody meant no foul by questioning your methods of deduction on this, and hopefully you can grow thicker skin to see that his responses in here weren't meant just to ruffle feathers and turn the other cheek. You appear to be very new to the site, don't let the fact that you weren't agreed upon in this case fully hamper your gaming experience.

Semp will get back to everyone on the ruling, which I am assuming while be handled and Closed upon receipt of that PM.

Happy New Year,
KS

Yeah, hopefully you can grow thicker foreskin to see that his responses in here weren't meant just to ruffle pubes and turn the other buttcheek.

I just love gay unions!

Hmmm or maybe he meant he loves happy unions...gay has more than one meaning...lol

SeaLandMaster has been WARNED for secret diplomacy.

On another note sometimes when you bring attention to yourself, depending on your point of view good things happen. nickzi has been BUSTED with LordManhammer .