Conquer Club

Accused:

ManBungalow

The accused are suspected of:

Throwing game.



Game number(s):

Game 6095616



Comments: He cant possibly be punished, because there was the theoretical defense that he was hoping his 6 would kill my 9 and 4 ones...He could also claim that it was just retaliation for me taking my bonus back, and hitting him...so theres plenty of plausible deniability...However, its obvious that he was just throwing the game. I was set to kill green in his attack of red, and was autoing religiously..the second green came through my guy after red, he was dead....which was obvious, and it would have evened the game up as much as possible...and even given red an actual shot at me. No doubt he was giving the game to green and throwing it by his auto attack of my big stack, when green had an 11 stack, poised to kill. I suspected in in another game, but it was terminator, so it was more of a throwing a game for 2 points, which is fully legal...technically.. I never expected a moderator to not let something so trivial go However, I guess I was wrong and regretfully so.

Its obvious he is capable of throwing games, so it has to be noted, in case he continues to break the rules he supposedly is meant to protect. Make no mistake, he purposely threw this game. I suspected the same in another, but there's no way to know, but on this one, there is no doubt. He still had a very real chance at winning, because id have autoed green, and it would have given him an actual shot. Instead he insured green would win, no matter what....ie threw the game.

No ones above the rules, especially the moderators. But again, this is only one game. I only post it, because people who throw one game, are certainly capable of others. And I think its especially important to know when a moderator knowingly will break the rules. Granted, on a freestyle speed game, the decision is not much of a calculated one. But theres no doubt, a player of his skill, knew exactly what he was doing. By all means, decide for yourselves, but be warned.

Im not really concerned with what moderators think of this, because as I said, there's no where near enough proof to actuall judge it game throwing, however, it is important for other players to not be fooled by the moderator tag, for manbungalow, because, while deniable, there is no one who actually knows how to play that will not know this was a thrown game, and therefore deserved to be warned. By all means, decide for yourselves, but be warned.

Wow

AAFitz wrote:Accused:

ManBungalow

The accused are suspected of:

Throwing game.



Game number(s):

Game 6095616



Comments: He cant possibly be punished, because there was the theoretical defense that he was hoping his 6 would kill my 9 and 4 ones...He could also claim that it was just retaliation for me taking my bonus back, and hitting him...so theres plenty of plausible deniability...However, its obvious that he was just throwing the game. I was set to kill green in his attack of red, and was autoing religiously..the second green came through my guy after red, he was dead....which was obvious, and it would have evened the game up as much as possible...and even given red an actual shot at me. No doubt he was giving the game to green and throwing it by his auto attack of my big stack, when green had an 11 stack, poised to kill. I suspected in in another game, but it was terminator, so it was more of a throwing a game for 2 points, which is fully legal...technically.. I never expected a moderator to not let something so trivial go However, I guess I was wrong and regretfully so.

Its obvious he is capable of throwing games, so it has to be noted, in case he continues to break the rules he supposedly is meant to protect. Make no mistake, he purposely threw this game. I suspected the same in another, but there's no way to know, but on this one, there is no doubt. He still had a very real chance at winning, because id have autoed green, and it would have given him an actual shot. Instead he insured green would win, no matter what....ie threw the game.

No ones above the rules, especially the moderators. But again, this is only one game. I only post it, because people who throw one game, are certainly capable of others. And I think its especially important to know when a moderator knowingly will break the rules. Granted, on a freestyle speed game, the decision is not much of a calculated one. But theres no doubt, a player of his skill, knew exactly what he was doing. By all means, decide for yourselves, but be warned.

Im not really concerned with what moderators think of this, because as I said, there's no where near enough proof to actuall judge it game throwing, however, it is important for other players to not be fooled by the moderator tag, for manbungalow, because, while deniable, there is no one who actually knows how to play that will not know this was a thrown game, and therefore deserved to be warned. By all means, decide for yourselves, but be warned.

You BIG TELL TALE JESSY. I bet you told on others at school, this cant be serious you big Girl, grow a pair ffs. Or just go and tell your parents

A. Would it have made sense to throw a game towards a lesser ranked player, losing more points?

No

B. If you had a stronghold on your target and had him in your sights, do you think that would make another player target you a little more aggressively then usual to continue the game?

Quite possibly

C. Can a case be made in almost every 3 player game out there that their was the potential for
"Secret Diplomacy" / "Throwing a Game"?

Yes because every move will adversely affect one player while helping the 3rd player

D. After I have reviewed the game log do I feel with what I see that he is Guilty of Throwing this game mind you I cant see the number of troop stacks that one attacked?

No, but I am leaving this open so other C&A mods can rule in on their opinion, so its not conceived as a mod covering up for a mod

And lastly

AAFitz wrote:He cant possibly be punished, because there was the theoretical defense that he was hoping his 6 would kill my 9 and 4 ones...He could also claim that it was just retaliation for me taking my bonus back, and hitting him...so theres plenty of plausible deniability..

there's no where near enough proof to actuall judge it game throwing,

sounds like you find him not guilty as well.

KS

king sam wrote:A. Would it have made sense to throw a game towards a lesser ranked player, losing more points?

No

Incorrect.

Firstly, if ManB cared about points he'd be Colonel+. Secondly, when you're executing retaliation you don't really care about points or to whom you're throwing it.

king sam wrote:C. Can a case be made in almost every 3 player game out there that their was the potential for
"Secret Diplomacy" / "Throwing a Game"?

That's kind of stupid. Of course you can make this case, but obviously some moves are more blatant than others.

ManB's a friend and I do want to see him cleared. But KS, you're arguments just seem exactly "like a mod covering up for a mod."

the.killing.44 wrote:ManB's a friend and I do want to see him cleared. But KS, you're arguments just seem exactly "like a mod covering up for a mod."

I agree with that right there. Plus it is pretty obvouis that ManB threw the game

i think this should be closed. it was a assain so he was after you. so suaciding is a common way to win on dodle earth

darkangelsguy205 wrote:i think this should be closed it was a assain so he was after you so suaciding is a common way to win on dodle earth

a)English?
b)AF is reporting him because he suicided a 9 with a 6 reducing ManB to all 1's

colton24 wrote:

darkangelsguy205 wrote:i think this should be closed it was a assain so he was after you so suaciding is a common way to win on dodle earth

a)English?
b)AF is reporting him because he suicided a 9 with a 6 reducing ManB to all 1's

yeah how many times do you see someone doing that. if this was a regular game with no mods he wouldnt of reported him.

darkangelsguy205 wrote:

colton24 wrote:

darkangelsguy205 wrote:i think this should be closed it was a assain so he was after you so suaciding is a common way to win on dodle earth

a)English?
b)AF is reporting him because he suicided a 9 with a 6 reducing ManB to all 1's

yeah how many times do you see someone doing that. if this was a regular game with no mods he wouldnt of reported him.

a)Not many
b)He still would've reported him
c)Unwritten Rules
Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing gamesor deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits.

the.killing.44 wrote:

king sam wrote:C. Can a case be made in almost every 3 player game out there that their was the potential for
"Secret Diplomacy" / "Throwing a Game"?

That's kind of stupid. Of course you can make this case, but obviously some moves are more blatant than others.

ManB's a friend and I do want to see him cleared. But KS, you're arguments just seem exactly "like a mod covering up for a mod."

Your entitled to your own opinion by all means, its just a more educated one to see that in any 3 player game a case can ALWAYS be made for both Secret Diplomacy/Throwing a Game.

With only 3 players in a game if at any one point Player A takes an offensive stance in the game against Player B attacking him more often then not because of troop placement, for a bonus or whatever reason have you then Player B can say he was being targeted and there was a secret alliance between Player C & Player A.

In the same sense in an Assassin game if I can see that my target has a move or 2 left before he is going to overtake the third player and win the game instead of me conceding defeat I would choose the tactic to lay it on my target to prevent this from happening and hope for good defensive dice if my target should try to eliminate me while I regroup. Its either i try to disrupt losing the game or I give up. Man B had these very same options, choose to sit back with his troops and watch the game end, or give any or all that he could against that cause to prolong the game and give him a slight chance to come back and win. Not very great odds in his favor to do so, but it was better odds for that outcome then to sit back and do nothing. Especially in a no spoils game where the tide can turn. Had he done nothing Player C could have made a claim just like this one saying Man B threw the game to Fitz by not going all out on his target (Fitz) when the game was all but decided.

colton24 wrote:I agree with that right there. Plus it is pretty obvouis that ManB threw the game

Did you even review the game Colton? Cause the game was over when this was reported? What in the game log tells you that Man B threw the game? You don't know how many troops where in either of their stacks, or the placement/armies of troops that Fitz's target had prior to Man B's all out Blitz on Fitz. All you can see from the log is that Man B used every effort to disrupt Fitz taking his target out and ending the game which in turn allowed for his demise. Isn't that the same story in almost every game? I'm curious as to your proof that makes you think this, or is this just jumping on the bandwagon with nothing behind it?

king sam wrote:He cant possibly be punished, because there was the theoretical defense that he was hoping his 6 would kill my 9 and 4 ones...He could also claim that it was just retaliation for me taking my bonus back, and hitting him...so theres plenty of plausible deniability..

there's no where near enough proof to actuall judge it game throwing,

sounds like you find him not guilty as well.

KS[/quote]

No. He is absolutely guilty of throwing the game. And I happen to know it was for personal reasons, and not in any attempt to do anything but give the game to green, which technically would be against the rules. What I said was, that he could theoretically have a defense, so he could be found innocent. That does not make him innocent. The difference is huge.

I wouldnt have made the thread if it wasnt a clear cut case of game throwing, and as I said, its presented to keep it on record, because if he is found to do it in the future, this case will be noted, even though I expect it to be posted cleared.

Im keeping a moderator honest here, and one that just completely threw a game.

colton24 wrote:

darkangelsguy205 wrote:

colton24 wrote:

darkangelsguy205 wrote:i think this should be closed it was a assain so he was after you so suaciding is a common way to win on dodle earth

a)English?
b)AF is reporting him because he suicided a 9 with a 6 reducing ManB to all 1's

yeah how many times do you see someone doing that. if this was a regular game with no mods he wouldnt of reported him.

a)Not many
b)He still would've reported him
c)Unwritten Rules
Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing gamesor deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits.

Go play with your LEGO or something, you insanely ignorant little kid.

king sam wrote:

the.killing.44 wrote:

king sam wrote:C. Can a case be made in almost every 3 player game out there that their was the potential for
"Secret Diplomacy" / "Throwing a Game"?

That's kind of stupid. Of course you can make this case, but obviously some moves are more blatant than others.

ManB's a friend and I do want to see him cleared. But KS, you're arguments just seem exactly "like a mod covering up for a mod."

Your entitled to your own opinion by all means, its just a more educated one to see that in any 3 player game a case can ALWAYS be made for both Secret Diplomacy/Throwing a Game.

With only 3 players in a game if at any one point Player A takes an offensive stance in the game against Player B attacking him more often then not because of troop placement, for a bonus or whatever reason have you then Player B can say he was being targeted and there was a secret alliance between Player C & Player A.

In the same sense in an Assassin game if I can see that my target has a move or 2 left before he is going to overtake the third player and win the game instead of me conceding defeat I would choose the tactic to lay it on my target to prevent this from happening and hope for good defensive dice if my target should try to eliminate me while I regroup. Its either i try to disrupt losing the game or I give up. Man B had these very same options, choose to sit back with his troops and watch the game end, or give any or all that he could against that cause to prolong the game and give him a slight chance to come back and win. Not very great odds in his favor to do so, but it was better odds for that outcome then to sit back and do nothing. Especially in a no spoils game where the tide can turn. Had he done nothing Player C could have made a claim just like this one saying Man B threw the game to Fitz by not going all out on his target (Fitz) when the game was all but decided.

colton24 wrote:I agree with that right there. Plus it is pretty obvouis that ManB threw the game

Did you even review the game Colton? Cause the game was over when this was reported? What in the game log tells you that Man B threw the game? You don't know how many troops where in either of their stacks, or the placement/armies of troops that Fitz's target had prior to Man B's all out Blitz on Fitz. All you can see from the log is that Man B used every effort to disrupt Fitz taking his target out and ending the game which in turn allowed for his demise. Isn't that the same story in almost every game? I'm curious as to your proof that makes you think this, or is this just jumping on the bandwagon with nothing behind it?

king sam wrote:He cant possibly be punished, because there was the theoretical defense that he was hoping his 6 would kill my 9 and 4 ones...He could also claim that it was just retaliation for me taking my bonus back, and hitting him...so theres plenty of plausible deniability..

there's no where near enough proof to actuall judge it game throwing,

sounds like you find him not guilty as well.

KS[/quote]

No. He is absolutely guilty of throwing the game. And I happen to know it was for personal reasons, and not in any attempt to do anything but give the game to green, which technically would be against the rules. What I said was, that he could theoretically have a defense, so he could be found innocent. That does not make him innocent. The difference is huge.

I wouldnt have made the thread if it wasn't a clear cut case of game throwing, and as I said, its presented to keep it on record, because if he is found to do it in the future, this case will be noted, even though I expect it to be posted cleared.

Im keeping a moderator honest here, and one that just completely threw a game.

Cheating threads are more than just an effort to get people busted. They are also used to keep players from repeating suspicious behavior, and keeping a record of those that repeatedly do such things.

Again, its a clear cut case of game throwing. He just happens to have many defenses to get out of it. As far as your suggestion that it was a tactical play, in order to keep me from assassinating green, when he had an 11 and about 7 other territories while I had a 9... well, feel free to think that was what he was doing, but I actually will give him the credit for being a better player than that, and not insult him with such a suggestion that he was making an actual move in some effort to win. Honestly, I doubt he will even dare post it was an actual move to win.

He threw a game. He has plausible deniability and cant be convicted. However, if it happens again in the future with other players, which certainly is possible, because he proved he certainly is capable of it now, well, it can be addressed then. Again, other players will now be warned that this could happen in their games, and all are warned that just because there is a moderator tag under his name, they cant be assured of fair play.

Darthvadar wrote:
You BIG TELL TALE JESSY. I bet you told on others at school, this cant be serious you big Girl, grow a pair ffs. Or just go and tell your parents

Just keeping the site free of cheating as much as possible. As far as being brave...I refer you to the last game we played, for which you foed me.

king sam wrote:A. Would it have made sense to throw a game towards a lesser ranked player, losing more points?

No

If it was done for personal reasons, on the other hand for retaliation in another game: Yes. One would just expect a moderator not to do such a thing. I joined, fully trusting that even though there was the earlier conflict, that I could still be assured of a fair game, because he was a moderator. I was wrong.

king sam wrote:B. If you had a stronghold on your target and had him in your sights, do you think that would make another player target you a little more aggressively then usual to continue the game?

Quite possibly

If the other player had an 11, an entire continent(The USA), 4 other spots in russsia, and only a 9 left to stop him from attacking...then no, you would not ever attack that nine, except to throw the game.

king sam wrote:C. Can a case be made in almost every 3 player game out there that their was the potential for
"Secret Diplomacy" / "Throwing a Game"?

Yes because every move will adversely affect one player while helping the 3rd player

Perhaps, but some are far more blatant than others, and this one, was as blatant as it gets. The move could have been for no other reason, but to give the game to green, so therefore, it was game throwing.

king sam wrote:D. After I have reviewed the game log do I feel with what I see that he is Guilty of Throwing this game mind you I cant see the number of troop stacks that one attacked?

No, but I am leaving this open so other C&A mods can rule in on their opinion, so its not conceived as a mod covering up for a mod

He had a 6, and two ones left. Green had an 11, one army away from him. I had a nine to stop green. He attacked the 9, giving Green a clear and easy shot at me, with no chance whatsoever of killing me, and insuring green would get him. Did he have another move to actually try and win. Absolutely, allow green to hit my 1 with his 11, wait for me to auto him, which I HAD to do, and then actually try to hit what was left of me. Instead, he threw the game. Can other scenarios be possible, sure, but that is what happened, and anyone who actually has played anywhere near as much as Manbungalow knows it as well as anyone else.

king sam wrote:And lastly

AAFitz wrote:He cant possibly be punished, because there was the theoretical defense that he was hoping his 6 would kill my 9 and 4 ones...He could also claim that it was just retaliation for me taking my bonus back, and hitting him...so theres plenty of plausible deniability..

there's no where near enough proof to actuall judge it game throwing,
sounds like you find him not guilty as well.

Actually, suiciding and letting another player take you out, really is proof, but theoretically, it could be just called bad play, if one wanted to excuse it. He was guilty of throwing the game. I just said he had plausible deniability, even though its obvious he threw the game. Because of that, he cant be convicted, but that doesnt mean he isnt guilty of throwing the game, which obviously, was what he was doing.

the.killing.44 wrote:

king sam wrote:A. Would it have made sense to throw a game towards a lesser ranked player, losing more points?

No

Incorrect.

Firstly, if ManB cared about points he'd be Colonel+. Secondly, when you're executing retaliation you don't really care about points or to whom you're throwing it.

king sam wrote:C. Can a case be made in almost every 3 player game out there that their was the potential for
"Secret Diplomacy" / "Throwing a Game"?

That's kind of stupid. Of course you can make this case, but obviously some moves are more blatant than others.

ManB's a friend and I do want to see him cleared. But KS, you're arguments just seem exactly "like a mod covering up for a mod."

This may sound crazy, seeing as I am the one making the accusation...but while KS could be partly biased, his point of view is plausible of course. Its an incorrect assessment, and it gives far too much credit, but even I have to agree, that its theoretically possible it was a move meant to win. However, realisitically, knowing the skill of manbungalow, its obvious it was actually game throwing.

I present this not to get him busted, because even I know he cant be busted. I present this as I said, to make sure he doesn't do it again. Now perhaps Im the only one he did this against, and if so, there's really no throwing of games, but if a moderator is willing to throw one game this blatantly against someone for personal reasons, it deserves to be noted,(and I dont mean officially noted)with a thread, as a warning to him, and to all, that it may very well happen. Would I have made this thread if he was not a moderator? Thats hard to say, but the fact that he is a moderator was why I was so surprised, to see such a blatant act. This is more to make sure it doesnt happen again, or that if it does, actual action can be taken.

Though I clearly cannot claim to be unbiased here, I have to at least be as fair as possible, because the only way to stop cheating, is with fair balanced cheating threads, and fair punishments. In this case, the most fair is to clear him, but not necessarily forget it happened either.

AAFitz wrote:This may sound crazy, seeing as I am the one making the accusation...but while KS could be partly biased, his point of view is plausible of course. Its an incorrect assessment, and it gives far too much credit, but even I have to agree, that its theoretically possible it was a move meant to win. However, realisitically, knowing the skill of manbungalow, its obvious it was actually game throwing.

AAFitz wrote:He had a 6, and two ones left. Green had an 11, one army away from him. I had a nine to stop green. He attacked the 9, giving Green a clear and easy shot at me, with no chance whatsoever of killing me, and insuring green would get him. Did he have another move to actually try and win. Absolutely, allow green to hit my 1 with his 11, wait for me to auto him, which I HAD to do, and then actually try to hit what was left of me. Instead, he threw the game. Can other scenarios be possible, sure, but that is what happened, and anyone who actually has played anywhere near as much as Manbungalow knows it as well as anyone else.

Is there any way for me or any other player who wasn't either a part of this game or a bystander of this game to see that Green had an 11 army, Man B had a 6 army, and Fitz had a 9 army?

If the answer is No, then can I or any mod justifiability accept that this is indeed exactly how the scenario was that lead up to the destruction of troops on Man B's part that aided in his demise?

KS just disregard anything colton says, pretty much everything he says is unintelligent. Plus a waste of the server. Let me explain through his quotes.

colton24 wrote: Wow

-- Very intelligent, that took some deep thought.

colton24 wrote:

the.killing.44 wrote:ManB's a friend and I do want to see him cleared. But KS, you're arguments just seem exactly "like a mod covering up for a mod."

I agree with that right there. Plus it is pretty obvouis that ManB threw the game

--Obvouis? hmm well not quite obvious, otherwise he'd be warned already. But I will say does look convicting, even though ManB is my friend as well, and clan mate, and hope he gets cleared.

colton24 wrote:

darkangelsguy205 wrote:i think this should be closed it was a assain so he was after you so suaciding is a common way to win on dodle earth

a)English?
b)AF is reporting him because he suicided a 9 with a 6 reducing ManB to all 1's

--Ah yes and my favorite post by colton in this thread. It's not that hard to decipher what darkangel said: I think this should be closed. It was an assassin, he was after you, so he thought he'd try his luck, and suicide you (AAFitz), which is a common way to win on doodle earth. Uhm big deal, I'd be ticked if I was losing. I'd probably try my luck and suicide as well. I've seen crazier things happen with dice. Now I will say that since AAFitz says there is a personal reason behind this, that I am not aware of. So...
Anyway sorry colton lol had to speak my mind against your post for once. They bug the crap out of me.

Good Luck Mods with this Case...
Hope you Get Cleared ManB

king sam wrote:

AAFitz wrote:This may sound crazy, seeing as I am the one making the accusation...but while KS could be partly biased, his point of view is plausible of course. Its an incorrect assessment, and it gives far too much credit, but even I have to agree, that its theoretically possible it was a move meant to win. However, realisitically, knowing the skill of manbungalow, its obvious it was actually game throwing.

AAFitz wrote:He had a 6, and two ones left. Green had an 11, one army away from him. I had a nine to stop green. He attacked the 9, giving Green a clear and easy shot at me, with no chance whatsoever of killing me, and insuring green would get him. Did he have another move to actually try and win. Absolutely, allow green to hit my 1 with his 11, wait for me to auto him, which I HAD to do, and then actually try to hit what was left of me. Instead, he threw the game. Can other scenarios be possible, sure, but that is what happened, and anyone who actually has played anywhere near as much as Manbungalow knows it as well as anyone else.

Is there any way for me or any other player who wasn't either a part of this game or a bystander of this game to see that Green had an 11 army, Man B had a 6 army, and Fitz had a 9 army?

If the answer is No, then can I or any mod justifiability accept that this is indeed exactly how the scenario was that lead up to the destruction of troops on Man B's part that aided in his demise?

You could ask Manbungalow. Or, assume Im not lying through my teeth and making up some random event, when even if its all true, Im not asking for a bust, only hoping to point out the actions of a mod, who obviously was just throwing a game.

If he wants to explain that he thought suiciding into my 9, and letting greens 11 hit him easily was a better move, than waiting for me to hit greens 10 when it came through my 1, than so be it. I however, suspect anyone that actually plays the game, will know that waiting was an actual move to try to win, and attacking was throwing the game.

I absolutely do not suggest you take my word for it, and issue any kind of discipline. Ive said this before. However, those are the facts, he did throw the game, and now anyone who reads this, will be warned. Further, if others see the same behavior, than this will serve as an example of it happening in the past.

Edit - deleted my rant about players with higher scores giving courtesy wins to other players to reserve points

After reviewing the game log. I do not think ManB is guilty of any game throwing whatsoever..

2009-12-12 08:22:38 - ManBungalow deployed 6 troops on Iceland
2009-12-12 08:22:42 - ziadazar assaulted Germany from Irakistan and conquered it from AAFitz
2009-12-12 08:22:44 - ManBungalow ended the turn

It looks like he attacked you without seeing Greens army was still able to kill him... Do also note that you took out 6 territories of ManB in the first round of attacking when he was not your target (you attacked the wrong guy almost more then his assassin attacked him, if anything it looks like you threw the game)

lurkerleader wrote:Edit - deleted my rant about players with higher scores giving courtesy wins to other players to reserve points

After reviewing the game log. I do not think ManB is guilty of any game throwing whatsoever..

2009-12-12 08:22:38 - ManBungalow deployed 6 troops on Iceland
2009-12-12 08:22:42 - ziadazar assaulted Germany from Irakistan and conquered it from AAFitz
2009-12-12 08:22:44 - ManBungalow ended the turn

It looks like he attacked you without seeing Greens army was still able to kill him... Do also note that you took out 6 territories of ManB in the first round of attacking when he was not your target (you attacked the wrong guy almost more then his assassin attacked him, if anything it looks like you threw the game)

Your analysis would actually be 100% correct, EXECEPT: Fog of War: No

There was an 11 that only had to go through my 1. Only my 9 could stop that 10 from taking him out. He autoed it. It was a sunny game, a. It didn't just drop there either, it was there at the end of the last turn. I think its silly to assume he didnt see the 11 there, so you're entire perception of the game is completely off.

Did I attack him too strongly? Perhaps. I was simply trying to take the African bonus back however, and I truly did not expect him to go through two greens to get me in Europe. Further, Green had perfect dice in America, which was possible, but not probable.

So, that set up the game to the point where red suicided into me to let green win it hands down. I was set up to make sure green didnt take him with very reasonable odds of stopping him, 9vs 10 and would easily have beat him to the draw.
then, red suicided, and left himself with 4 armies for greens 11 to easily smash, and its obvious that was the intent, since had he waited, id have hit greens 11, which was very much not invisible to him...and then he actually would have had a real shot at the victory. Had he waited till then to auto me, it clearly would have not been suicide meant to let green take him out.

Instead he chose to throw the game, and it is no doubt because of a previous game.

That is what happened. I myself have pointed out all the other defenses, and acknowledge they are all theoretically possible, however, reasonably speaking, this is what he actually did. Had it been a fog game, as I think you were assuming, this thread would not exist.

I put up my charge against ncbilly123 for throwing a game and it was rejected (though credit to the hunters they did give it due consideration) and his was MUCH more blatant...so I doubt anything will come of this.

Beyond that, I like ManB and have played against him consistantly for a long time. I have always found him to be a decent and honourable opponent. Not to say he didn't break the rules in this case (or that he did!) but it is just one game. Why, even I (the absolute embodiment of gaming virtue) once broke a truce in a weak moment of insane competitiveness.

Mr Changsha wrote:I put up my charge against ncbilly123 for throwing a game and it was rejected (though credit to the hunters they did give it due consideration) and his was MUCH more blatant...so I doubt anything will come of this.

Beyond that, I like ManB and have played against him consistantly for a long time. I have always found him to be a decent and honourable opponent. Not to say he didn't break the rules in this case (or that he did!) but it is just one game. Why, even I (the absolute embodiment of gaming virtue) once broke a truce in a weak moment of insane competitiveness.

I absolutely agree. And I pointed those points out already. I know he did throw the game, because I was there, and if viewed correctly, its obvious to any real player. I honestly would be surprised if Manbungalow denies it, because theres just no way a good player would admit to autoing that 9 with a 6, and hoping to kill the other 4 armies I had too, especially with a green 11 lying in wait. Anyone suggesting they think he was actually trying to win, is actually insulting him more than this thread may be.

However, it is just one game, and I know he certainly cannot be busted, and already mentioned he cannot be officially even warned, because the precident would be too great, and am not even calling for an official noting. I just want the game to be seen, and for players to know what this moderator is capable of doing...especially those like myself, who simply did not expect to see a moderator completely throw a game.

It also serves to protect others, because if he did do it in the future, there would be other examples to cite.

Im keeping an moderator honest. He is meant to enforce the rules, not break them.

the problem here is that given the log situation that we currently have there is no evidence that can clearly show anyone that did not witness the game the scenario in your game as it played out.

Not saying that you are untruthful Fitz, but in order to punish anyone for wrongful doing I need more then what is here. If anything came out of this accusation then it would be under the premises of solely on what you have said. There is no possible way I can see the troop count that was before the subjected move was made.

And as I have said before damn near any 3 player game a case can be made for diplomacy or throwing a game.

I think this thread has served its purpose, it was open to all for discussion, and as I have said I don't have enough evidence to warrant any disciplinary measures so there's nothing else that this can do except be used to continue to smear another player.

But seeing as the scenario that you have made here Fitz is totally plausible, i will Note this as a possible throwing of a game. Mods are not above the rules, but we are players, and we go through these games just like the majority of everyone else. And we are foul able. If there is a violation of the rules it eventually surfaces itself enough and it will be addressed and handled as according to the community guidelines regardless of the player with the infraction.

Regards,
KS