Twin Killler [noted]

[jefjef]

Whereas Twin Killer...set up some games on a map that NRs shouldn't even be allowed to play on (per standards set on this site) and NRs joined them without his knowledge nor invitation. That is the sum total of his violation.

There are MANY players that have been warned for farming because they set up games knowing that they attract a large % of new recruits. You are well aware of that.

[Ickyketseddie]

I didnt even realise you could block players from playing new recruits?! Why are we even talking about this. I bet TK would have no problem with it if you just do that and then this whole thing is over. I would if I were in his position.

[Evolution299]

So just to get this straight Bruceswar, in order to make a game, according to you, I or Twin Killler or anyone else have to :

1. Make sure that its on a map that a NR can't join, because we can obviously control (note the sarcasm) who joins games that we make.
2. It has to be 6 players or more because NR's can't join those games.
3. And settings that NR wouldnt want to play, because if we have a setting on a map that an NR would want to join, it could be considered farming.


Heaven forbid if I want to play a 3 or 4 person game on a standard map. I might have my hands cut off.

Give your head a shake

[Woodruff]

Whereas Twin Killer...set up some games on a map that NRs shouldn't even be allowed to play on (per standards set on this site) and NRs joined them without his knowledge nor invitation. That is the sum total of his violation.

There are MANY players that have been warned for farming because they set up games knowing that they attract a large % of new recruits. You are well aware of that.

Yes, those setting up FIVE-PLAYER games were told to create six-player games instead because NRs can't join those and the gameplay is pretty similar. Do you seriously believe a similar reaction would make sense for 1-vs-1 games?

The RIGHT action should be to simply put this map on the no-NR list and be done with it. But expecting a reasonable, intelligent action from this bunch is getting to be more and more of a stretch.

[Bruceswar]

If you follow the community guidelines link there is a definition of farming:

Systematically Farming "New Recruits"
If you are found guilty of New Recruit Farming---that is, systematically joining games with new recruits in order to "farm" newbies for points, you will find yourself escalating on the New Recruit Farming Vacation scale.

Systematically Farming New Recruits Infraction levels are as follows:
Warning
1 Month Vacation / Block from joining games with New Recruits
3 Month Vacation / Block from joining games with New Recruits
Permanent Vacation / Block from joining games with New Recruits



As it is outlined it says joining games with new recruits. Not creating games that new recruits end up joining. My point is if a rule is to be enforced the rule should be listed. It is not, and as the website conquer club defines farming with this definition I don't see how TK violated it.

It should be conquer clubs responsibility to block new recruits from playing the map if they think it is an unfair map.

The rule is not limited to joining games with new recruits... but also having them join your games. All the same.

[natty dread]

The rule is not limited to joining games with new recruits... but also having them join your games. All the same.

And it's an idiotic rule.

Any time when a rule that's supposed to improve the enjoyment of players starts to instead do the opposite, ie. prevent the players from enjoying the game, then that is a failed rule.

[Woodruff]

If you follow the community guidelines link there is a definition of farming:

Systematically Farming "New Recruits"
If you are found guilty of New Recruit Farming---that is, systematically joining games with new recruits in order to "farm" newbies for points, you will find yourself escalating on the New Recruit Farming Vacation scale.

Systematically Farming New Recruits Infraction levels are as follows:
Warning
1 Month Vacation / Block from joining games with New Recruits
3 Month Vacation / Block from joining games with New Recruits
Permanent Vacation / Block from joining games with New Recruits



As it is outlined it says joining games with new recruits. Not creating games that new recruits end up joining. My point is if a rule is to be enforced the rule should be listed. It is not, and as the website conquer club defines farming with this definition I don't see how TK violated it.

It should be conquer clubs responsibility to block new recruits from playing the map if they think it is an unfair map.

The rule is not limited to joining games with new recruits... but also having them join your games. All the same.

That may be the way the rule is currently enforced, but they're definitely not "all the same". It's a moronic way to view the rule, quite frankly.

[Jippd]

If it is illegal for one person to create a 1 v 1 game on poison rome with the settings TK uses it should be illegal for all, otherwise that is unfair treatment. Why can anyone else do what TK can't how is that fair to him as a paying customer?

None the less the "rule" isn't listed that way. If this "rule" is a "rule" why is it not clearly listed under the Rules section on this site?

My fight is not for TK it is for equal treatment as paying customers.

[Bruceswar]

If it is illegal for one person to create a 1 v 1 game on poison rome with the settings TK uses it should be illegal for all, otherwise that is unfair treatment. Why can anyone else do what TK can't how is that fair to him as a paying customer?

None the less the "rule" isn't listed that way. If this "rule" is a "rule" why is it not clearly listed under the Rules section on this site?

My fight is not for TK it is for equal treatment as paying customers.

If someone were to make a ton of games that attracted a large percent of NR's then they too would get the same punishment as Twin Killer got. In this case noted, and told to make a different map / settings for a bit. You are missing the point. The point is not so much Poison Rome, but rather this map / settings attracted this many NR's.

[Jippd]

I completely get the point. You are saying the map and settings attract too many new recruits...

As I've said before and will say again to your argument for that:

If that is true why does CC not restrict the map/settings from new recruits instead of infringing on the joy a customer gets from playing said settings.

Now I ask you to address the issues you seem to be missing the point on:

How can anyone else play that map with the same settings? Do you consider this fair treatment that ANYBODY besides TK can create a poisonrome with his settings 1 v 1? Your argument I believe is that he has created TOO MANY poison rome games? Say someone as a paying customer has time to play X amount of games per day. Is it not their right to play the quantity and mix of games that they desire? If he only wants to play poison rome 1 v 1 why can't he? It is unfair to make him as a paying customer need to play "other" games to diversify his game load, he may not have time for that, nor may he want to play any map besides poison rome.

You have also not addressed the issue that the definition of the "rule" that was broken here is not clearly listed under the rules section. How is that fair to new people on the site that don't troll the forums. Your argument is that it is a "rule" because previous rulings have been made on the issue. How is someone that never reads the forum supposed to know this is a rule? Do you not think that if it is a "rule" that it should be listed and defined under the rules section?


Bottom line is your argument boils down to CC thinking there is a problem with New Recruits being attracted to and wanting to play then losing on poison rome. If that is true, then why is CC not assuming any responsibility and talking a proactive stance by banning the map from NR's?


I also find it ironic that you see a problem with this bruceswar but yet one of your clanmates (GLG) uses equally, if not more, questionable techniques in his games. I would say it is more morally and ethically wrong to seek out low rankers and create private games with settings that take advantage of them then to create a public game which people CHOOSE to join and lose.

If you argue that NR's can't win on poison rome because they don't know the map then there is no difference from what GLG does. If you look up maprank on his opponents they have played the map never, or once before. Same as a new recruit joining poison rome.

[kostko]

I have tons 1vs1 (cca. 300 out of 500) games with settings:
Standard /Automatic /Sequential/Random map/No Spoils/ Chained /No Fog .
A lot of NR joined my games, I won some I lost some. Most of them leveled up to Private 1st Class, their NR rank cannot be seen now because their current rank is showed. And I never liked when someone less than 1000 pt joined my game. So , am I a farmer? Would I get noted, if someone reported me? Is my raiting too low to be a farmer? Or, do we all play settings where we belive our chances to win are greater? yes? So, are we all farmers trying to get more points, if noobs (NR, cooks, cadets) join regulary ?

NRs, cooks and Cadets, they are all noobs and shuld be treated same, there is no difference . Farming cooks or cadets should be treated same as farming NR is. No one can say that NR becomes experienced on difficult maps after 5 games(Vaterloo, etc.) . No one. When a noob (NR player) clicks "Join A Game" he usullly joins one of the games listed on the first page and does not care about the settings or map, because he is noob and noobs(NR) don't understand the settings. And if Twin Killer's games are listed on a first page, than god help us all. When I was a NR I joined first game listed after clicking "Join A Game" button, I didn't go trough all the pages searching for the game I want, I didnt understand the settings, I just wanted to test the game. Saying that NR players are attracted to Poison Rome 1vs1 and settings Twin Killer uses, is a wrong conclusions in my opinion . NR players are attracted to whatever games are listed on a first page after clicking "Join A Game".

Gen.LeeGettinhed is obviously farming noobs on a BIG scale and you guys cleared him viewtopic.php?f=239&t=158738&hilit=Gen.LeeGettinhed+farmHe . Its true that he GLG takes his time after game is finished to explain the map. But his explanation goes like this: "First you take out one region , than you take another region and when you have enough regions to hold a bonus you get more troops and then you can attack more regions and then you win". This is the way he explaind waterloo to me after the Game 8873623 on chat , guess what? I still dont know how to play Vaterloo. Saying that Illegal farming ONLY pertains to new recruits(NR), just shows how well you guys are protecting Gen.LeeGettinhel. Cooks and cadets are all easy target on 1vs1 vaterloo game settings that GLG likes to use.
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God bless this mess. El Jesus Negro.

[Woodruff]

Bottom line is your argument boils down to CC thinking there is a problem with New Recruits being attracted to and wanting to play then losing on poison rome. If that is true, then why is CC not assuming any responsibility and talking a proactive stance by banning the map from NR's?

This is precisely the right question, and the resolution to the problem. Therefore, it won't happen. Or it will, but in five years after lackattack finds time outside of implementing the next nuclear spoils idiocies.

[IR1SH ACE]

I agree with evrything Jippd and woodruff are saying ban the map not the player....there is no alternative type of game to a 1v1 game and some players just love 1v1 games it seems to be a very popular game choice although I cant see why because I personally hate 1v1 games, to random with drop and dice the game can be over b4 you take a turn but some players like TK try to offset this by choosing a more complex map and as long as they are public games for anyone to join then more power to him.....

I also find it ironic that you see a problem with this bruceswar but yet one of your clanmates (GLG) uses equally, if not more, questionable techniques in his games. I would say it is more morally and ethically wrong to seek out low rankers and create private games with settings that take advantage of them then to create a public game which people CHOOSE to join and lose.

If you argue that NR's can't win on poison rome because they don't know the map then there is no difference from what GLG does. If you look up maprank on his opponents they have played the map never, or once before. Same as a new recruit joining poison rome.

+1

my opinion and any respect I might of had for Bruce and KORT went right down the toilet the day they let GLG in there clan and to come in here and take the high road over what TK is doing yet defend the actions and stand behind someone like GLG is simply laughable and only makes you look foolish...

Finally if CC did ban Poison Rome from NR's and it was brought to everyones attention a few months down the road that TK had switched his map to something that was attracting large amounts of NR's then YES he is most defiantly farming and should be punished for it.....

[Bruceswar]

Without giving too much info out, there are things being worked on in the backroom. Even if CC took away every single hard map, there will be people still trying to game the system. CC is surely not sweeping this under the rug. There is something in the works.

[Agent 86]

Bruce your way out of line and your arguments mean moot...or should that mean moo!! you old cow. Now if you could reasonably argue your point we might agree , you have failed miserably and show that there is more to you and protecting your favourite farmer. Your clan and your want to protect GLG is pathetic this is not the way to do it!!. I can't believe you wanted to take this losing battle on and make yourself a fool.

So sad, you are the only one who wants to argue this and you keep going.

CC, Ban all Newcomers to this map or ban everyone on CC to making a 1 v 1 on this map..WTF

There you got a flame out of me Bruce, bring it on!!

Read the thread Bruce and stop being ridiculous, there have been many posts and you ignore the majority.

Ohh, look out GLG has an imposter..ha ha

Our clan doesn't wasn't to lose a valuable player because of this spurios report!!

Feel free to IM me about this CC..I know you will ban me too..pathetic

Peace out, I have had my say..

86

[alster]

Alster, you are an asshole..and f*ck you!!!

Perhaps true, but still unnecessary flaming.

[Evolution299]

I think he stated what the majority of people that have posted or read this C&A report or yours, think.

A real man would have manned up, and take his punishment for cheating. You, not so much. You seem to have been neutered.
Grow a set and show some testiclular fortitude.
I wonder how many of those medals you earned by being a cheat? HMMMMM...

[Bruceswar]

Really? Have you not read anything I put. Nobody is saying you cannot play any map / setting you so choose, but when your map / setting starts attracting a very high rate of NR's then well it is time to try another map / settings for a bit. Supply and demand. BTW Where was anything about GLG said? My point has been simple and firm. Please keep up.

[Evolution299]

Why should someone have to change a game that they like to play, because of who joins it? Thats just dumb. It's not like they are going out and joining NR's games, they are coming by pure choice to his game. They don't have to and they also see what his rank is prior to joining.

Just cause you are putting on boxing gloves for the first time, doesnt mean you have to jump into the ring with the heavy weight champ of the world.

[Ickyketseddie]

Really? Have you not read anything I put. Nobody is saying you cannot play any map / setting you so choose, but when your map / setting starts attracting a very high rate of NR's then well it is time to try another map / settings for a bit. Supply and demand. BTW Where was anything about GLG said? My point has been simple and firm. Please keep up.

What if its not the map and settings that are attractive new recruits tho? What if its just because you create a bulk amount of games and N/R's join the first game that shows up, and because you have many, odds are more will join your games? Then when you choose a different map the same thing happens and you end up reported again? Then you'll have a whole report.. already warned for this sort of thing blah blah blah.

I understand your trying your best to remain consistent on a very Grey area of the rules but agree with 86 and everyone else that your fighting the wrong corner in this one. However as i mentioned before, if you have the power to block people from playing N/R's it's a easy solution. You can feel free to add me to that list too. Surely that would save pages of argument? I also realize there's a risk of that being seen as someone getting caught, but if they agree to it there should be no issue?

[Bruceswar]

Why should someone have to change a game that they like to play, because of who joins it? Thats just dumb. It's not like they are going out and joining NR's games, they are coming by pure choice to his game. They don't have to and they also see what his rank is prior to joining.

Just cause you are putting on boxing gloves for the first time, doesnt mean you have to jump into the ring with the heavy weight champ of the world.

Why would a farmer (Real life) continue to grow strawberries when the market at current is flooded, thus driving down his price. He loves to grow strawberries though! With that said he would be better served growing some corn for a bit to help the strawberry market not be soo saturated. He will get more in the long run anyhow, and then can grow more strawberries.



@ Icky... Supply and demand as stated above. If I am car dealer and I am having a hard time selling green cars, you think come order time, I am going to order more green cars I cannot sell and have to send away at a really cheap price to move them?

[ubcman64]

Why would a farmer (Real life) continue to grow strawberries when the market at current is flooded, thus driving down his price. He loves to grow strawberries though! With that said he would be better served growing some corn for a bit to help the strawberry market not be soo saturated. He will get more in the long run anyhow, and then can grow more strawberries.

.........you're comparing playing games with someone's livelihood? not quite apples to apples is it?

[hmsps]

Why would a farmer (Real life) continue to grow strawberries when the market at current is flooded, thus driving down his price. He loves to grow strawberries though! With that said he would be better served growing some corn for a bit to help the strawberry market not be soo saturated. He will get more in the long run anyhow, and then can grow more strawberries.

Ok what if someone grows strawberries for the fun of growing strawberries, doesn't need the income from it just loves strawberries and not really keen on growing anything else?

[Ickyketseddie]

Wow this thread just got abstact.

Although how you compare a job to a hobby i think is a little misleading. Surely its better compared to something like a poker player? You plays Texas hold 'em and are good at it, thats what you enjoy. You have the ability to play other formats of poker and are good at them, but hold 'em is what you like, so you want to play everyone and anyone at it.

This was the best Analogy I could think of short notice.

Is anyone willing to address these other two questions?

1) Can you willingly be blocked from facing new recruits thus ending/resolving any accusation, and allowing you to play what the hell you like risk free?

2) If you make a batch of games and post in the callouts section calling all players for a challenge does this equally vindicate you of wrong doing?

[ubcman64]

2) If you make a batch of games and post in the callouts section calling all players for a challenge does this equally vindicate you of wrong doing?

you can always make all the games "private" and post them in the various "ranked" forums (1400+, 1800+, 2000+, etc.)
this would prevent anything like this from happening. it's a bit more work, but until they come up with a way to give us the option to block NR's from joining, it looks like the best option for someone dealing with this issue.