meathead cheated freestyle - game 2348827 [closed]

[albertq]

From: http://www.conquerclub.com/public.php?mode=instructions3

"Play Order In a freestyle game it doesn't matter in which order players take their turns. Players can even play simultaneously! After the last player takes his turn, a new round begins immediately. The player who triggers a new round is blocked from taking a second back-to-back turn and must wait until either an opponent begins their turn or half of the round passes."

he took his go straight away though didn't he, not half way into the round

[cramill]

he took his go straight away though didn't he, not half way into the round

Yes.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2549&start=0

See the monkey...

Somewhat ironic, I was not in favour of the de facto double turn initially. I did change my mid though having played more freestyle games.

That link didn't help all that much. So was this issue supposed to be fixed or is this a different issue than what treefiddy mentioned? ("the defacto double turn that was fixed a few months ago").

Was this the fix you were thinking of treefiddy?:

Freestyle Improved
There was a well known loophole in freestyle games. If you were blocked from taking your turn because you ended the previous round, your opponents could wait until the last minute to play, shutting you out. Now the back-to-back turn block expires once the round is half over, so you'll still be able to play if your opponents wait.

Well, that solved one issue but not this back-to-back turn issue.

[treefiddy]

Defacto Double Turn was before the 12 hour (or 2.5 min) thing was implemented. Basically; Player 1 would make sure they went first, and ended their turn first. This would ensure they would be first to act on the next round while Player 2 was locked out from playing (since they can't play until the Player 1 starts their turn). Player 1 then waits until there is only 1-5 minutes left in the round and they take their turn. Most of the time, this would cause Player 2 to miss their turn (as they only had 1-5 minutes to take their turn before the round ended). Once the round ends, Player 1 could go again immediately.

What this created was a situation where anyone who gained position (i.e. first player to move in the game) to be able to get 2 turns for every one turn that their opponent got.

In the Defacto Double Turn's case, one player got two turns in a row; while forcing the other player to miss a turn.

The reason I even reference it here; is everyone said it was "ok" and "not cheating"; but was later fixed. Just goes to show you that just because you *can* do something; doesn't make it ok. There was also a lot of "If you don't like it, don't play freestyle" comments when those discussions were happening as well.

That being said; I think I'll go make a post on this in the Bugs and Suggestions forum so they can get rid of this topic and clear Meathead. While he is using shady tactics, it's not technically cheating.

[Thezzaruz]

While he is using shady tactics, it's not technically cheating.

Yea think that is firmly established. Moving the discussion to the suggestions forum sounds great.

[Warsteiner]

it's not even shady tactics. If the person decides to have no life and be on when the clock is close to passing 24h it's his choice. The player he opposes has the same choice to be there too if he wants to.

It actually counters the freestyle problem in 1vs1's. In 1vs1's the joiner has a BIG advantage over the starter of the game as he can simply move first and end before the other person starts, making it a sequential as it were with him as a starter, which is more unfair to me than the counter of using run out of time.

[alster]

It actually counters the freestyle problem in 1vs1's. In 1vs1's the joiner has a BIG advantage over the starter of the game as he can simply move first and end before the other person starts, making it a sequential as it were with him as a starter, which is more unfair to me than the counter of using run out of time.

I concur. Tampering anymore with the freestyle setting pretty much turns freestyle into a sequential game.

[Thezzaruz]

I concur. Tampering anymore with the freestyle setting pretty much turns freestyle into a sequential game.

No it doesn't. It turns 1v1 freestyle games into sequential (until a player trades a turn for position) but that really can't be a big enough issue to allow it to continue in all other games.

[dustn64]

He shouldn't be penalized. anyone could use the bug to help them win, so the playing field was fair.

If you don't like his style just leave a neg.

[cramill]

No it doesn't. It turns 1v1 freestyle games into sequential (until a player trades a turn for position) but that really can't be a big enough issue to allow it to continue in all other games.

I agree with Thezzaruz. It doesn't make the 1v1 freestyle game a sequential. You both can be going at the same time and if you happen to be going at the same time you can change the play order by ending your turn before the other person (if thats what you wanted to do) by ending your turn before them.

it's not even shady tactics. If the person decides to have no life and be on when the clock is close to passing 24h it's his choice. The player he opposes has the same choice to be there too if he wants to.

It actually counters the freestyle problem in 1vs1's. In 1vs1's the joiner has a BIG advantage over the starter of the game as he can simply move first and end before the other person starts, making it a sequential as it were with him as a starter, which is more unfair to me than the counter of using run out of time.

The thing about that (underlined) is that isn't in the spirit of a "casual" (24 hour) game.

Designed for the casual gamer, playing Conquer Club is not a time consuming process. You can take your turn in 5 minutes with your morning cup of coffee or in between classes.

I want the system to be more fair and not allow the double turn by not ending your turn and have time run out - for example if you are playing a doubles freestyle game against a team that is on the other side of the world and the round is ending at 3 in the morning for me and my partner, and its in the day for the other team, I don't want to have to get up at 3:00 am to see if they are going to use this tactic against me or if they are merely missing a turn (either by choice or by forgetting or whatever). Its nice to have the peace of mind that i don't have to get up super early to check and knowing that me and my partner will have at least 12 hours after the round ends to take our turn.

[Warsteiner]

Obviously the round will end 24 hours after you joined the game. So that should be a time where you can be there eh?

[Thezzaruz]

Obviously the round will end 24 hours after you joined the game. So that should be a time where you can be there eh?

Expecting all rounds to be 24 hours doesn't work though. Especially when playing opponents from different timezones.

[Bruceswar]

Obviously the round will end 24 hours after you joined the game. So that should be a time where you can be there eh?

Expecting all rounds to be 24 hours doesn't work though. Especially when playing opponents from different timezones.

But that is the rules. All casual games are 24 hours. The only way letting the clock run out works is if you are playing no cards. Obviously those who are all up in arms about it and the ones who do not usually play freestyle. So what difference does it make if the guy starts 2 secs after you start and finishes his move before you. He gets to start first next time or the chance to. (assuming there is more than 2 players) For the people who play freestyle you know you have to be ready to go on a moments notice. Usually you keep a watch on your game clock as to maximize your move. That is the spirit of freestyle. If you do not want to be so bound the computer play sequential.

[Warsteiner]

Obviously the round will end 24 hours after you joined the game. So that should be a time where you can be there eh?

Expecting all rounds to be 24 hours doesn't work though. Especially when playing opponents from different timezones.

When talking about this issue Only the First-Second round border matters.... After the first rd it's already changed from 2nd mover to first mover.

[cramill]

Obviously the round will end 24 hours after you joined the game. So that should be a time where you can be there eh?

Expecting all rounds to be 24 hours doesn't work though. Especially when playing opponents from different timezones.

The time doesn't end at the same 24 hours each time because the different times when people take their turns.

But that is the rules. All casual games are 24 hours. The only way letting the clock run out works is if you are playing no cards. Obviously those who are all up in arms about it and the ones who do not usually play freestyle. So what difference does it make if the guy starts 2 secs after you start and finishes his move before you. He gets to start first next time or the chance to. (assuming there is more than 2 players) For the people who play freestyle you know you have to be ready to go on a moments notice. Usually you keep a watch on your game clock as to maximize your move. That is the spirit of freestyle. If you do not want to be so bound the computer play sequential.

I have no problem with the guy starting right after me and ending before me. I have a problem with using the exploit to take two turns in a row without a chance for me to take my turn (because of me being offline since its a casual game). I should still have the 12 hours after they take thier turn to start mine, if I don't go during that 12 hours, then they have the chance to go before me.

[Bruceswar]

But that is the rules. All casual games are 24 hours. The only way letting the clock run out works is if you are playing no cards. Obviously those who are all up in arms about it and the ones who do not usually play freestyle. So what difference does it make if the guy starts 2 secs after you start and finishes his move before you. He gets to start first next time or the chance to. (assuming there is more than 2 players) For the people who play freestyle you know you have to be ready to go on a moments notice. Usually you keep a watch on your game clock as to maximize your move. That is the spirit of freestyle. If you do not want to be so bound the computer play sequential.

I have no problem with the guy starting right after me and ending before me. I have a problem with using the exploit to take two turns in a row without a chance for me to take my turn (because of me being offline since its a casual game). I should still have the 12 hours after they take thier turn to start mine, if I don't go during that 12 hours, then they have the chance to go before me.

Freestyle rewards people who are at the PC more often. If you do not know this by now, surely after this you know it. This is no exploit at all. It is perfectly good strategy and only works in no card games. In a card game you will miss a card if you do not end. Suck it up and do not play freestyle if you do not like this tactic.

[cramill]

Freestyle rewards people who are at the PC more often. If you do not know this by now, surely after this you know it. This is no exploit at all. It is perfectly good strategy and only works in no card games. In a card game you will miss a card if you do not end.

I'm not stupid, I'm around a computer a lot but I do sleep. In a 24 hour casual team game, my opponents might be on the other side of the world and the round ends when I would rather be sleeping. I've already explained my views about this.

Suck it up and do not play freestyle if you do not like this tactic.

Apparently you haven't read this whole thread because I stated my reasons for playing freestyle and I don't need anyone saying "Don't play if you don't like it" ever again.

[kentington]

I agree with Cramill on this one. I think it should be prohibited. The point of a freestyle game is to have simultaneous turns and give a bit of variety and new strategy, as far as team play or fortifying. However, the rule that states the player or team who ends the turn will be blocked from taking the first turn in the next round suggests that this will not happen. If Cramill has never seen it before, and since it is not spoken about in the rules, then this is an unfair and cheap tactic.

[Thezzaruz]

But that is the rules. All casual games are 24 hours.

Nope. Some are shorter and hence it's not at all sure that the end of a turn is at the same time of day as the game started.

When talking about this issue Only the First-Second round border matters.... After the first rd it's already changed from 2nd mover to first mover.

You're not making much sense here. He wasn't talking just about the first turn ending (and neither was I). The "run out of time double turn" can be used well after the first round.

[hundredand1aces]

I have read many of the post's in this thread, and I have to agree with the starter. Although its is possible to do what is being done, it doesnt discount the fact that its a bug and it's being exploited. When I joined a game with Watsteiner, I was looking forward to it, till I relized what was about to take place......If this is how the higher ranked guys get their rank, then whatever, its a game, but seems to be life or death to them--I have to be the big man on CC, I have the biggest sack, yada yada yada.......pretty sad. When I used to run Day of Defeat servers and Counter Strike serves, there were bugs in the map that would let you jump/climb to places that you were not intended to be at(skywalking for instance), and if I caught you, the 1st was a warning the 2nd was being banned. the instructions to me are quite clear and I quote:

"Play Order
In a freestyle game it doesn't matter in which order players take their turns. Players can even play simultaneously! After the last player takes his turn, a new round begins immediately. The player who triggers a new round is blocked from taking a second back-to-back turn and must wait until either an opponent begins their turn or half of the round passes."

So waiting for time to run out is the bug, and in a no cards game who cares if time runs out. So these guys wait till close to the end(in a casual game) capture their bonus, and let time run out and then start and receive their bonus, kinda lame IMO.

So is it legal what they are pulling? Sure I guess, but is in within the spirit of what the instructions lay out.....not IMO. You know here in OK we have the make my day law, which basiclly gives me the right to shoot your ass if you're in my home and I feel threatened, so I put one in your head and just tell the cops I felt thretened whether or not I did or not, noone will know but me; legal, hell yeah no way to prove any different, but its it within the spirit of the law?????


Just my two cents


101

[hundredand1aces]

Every freestyle player who plays knows this is what you do in no cards. It is no secret. Play any speed game and there is never a reason to end. NO CARDS... Clock runs out 99% of the time. Take your lumps.

No actually I didn't know but I know now.......I play several freestyle, no card games but they are speed games, so I'm at the puter watching from start to finish.....

[hundredand1aces]

Obviously the round will end 24 hours after you joined the game. So that should be a time where you can be there eh?

Yes and no.....Ok lets say cramill and his/her partner live in England, and you and I are partners and live in the central time zone and are buddies....We join their 24 casual game right after they create it at 5pm their time, and they take their turns and end, then we in turn wait about 12 hours and then take our turn to put the game back on our clock and not theirs, so now the new 24 hour clock started at England 5am not pm, reguardless of what time it is in the central time zone......it is very easy to manipulate when the new 24 hour clock starts, so your above statement holds no water, unless of course the makers wait till the very end to take their turn and let time run out so they can go again without having to worry about what you did/or are doing........

[Hsur]

I am new here and I had this happen to me. I think if the last player ends their turn OR the clock runs out on them. They should still have to wait till another player takes their turn or half the round has passed. Would that be hard to set up?

[bigdaddyslim2]

well i think meathead is just a cheater and he is going on my ignore list, he knew what he did was unsportsman like, he just has no skills and has to cheat to win, what a looser, and the rules are clear and he violated that, the round wasnt halfway through, he knew he was loosing so he resorted to his own rules, that is why he is going on my foes list, what a CHUMP why should cramill pay the price for unfair play, and why should yall tell him then dont play freestyle, why that becouse he pointed out an obvious flaw that a player is taking advantage of, meathead started his turn,
and decided not to play so he ended the round when he didnt play, even if time ran out, since he started the turn which alowed the time to run out, he forced it to another round so he shouldnt be able to play again, the round wouldnt have been over if he never would have started the round to begin with so yea its was his turn he took

[user01]

I can say with honour that I do that on No Cards game all the time. As does 99% of the whole CC community. It is NOT cheating. He did not end his round so he could block you from getting your bonus. That's freestyle my friend. If you cannot handle it please play sequential. What if all players do this, should they all be blocked from starting the next round?

YES.!!!! They should all be blocked from starting the next round. It is an unfair advantage.

Glad to have read this. I will NOT join any freestyle "cheat as you like" games.
And if the rest of players, play this way, I'll go play NavyField instead of this Dice/Luck game.....

[bigdaddyslim2]

I can say with honor that I do that on No Cards game all the time. As does 99% of the whole CC community. It is NOT cheating. He did not end his round so he could block you from getting your bonus. That's freestyle my friend. If you cannot handle it please play sequential. What if all players do this, should they all be blocked from starting the next round?

YES.!!!! They should all be blocked from starting the next round. It is an unfair advantage.

Glad to have read this. I will NOT join any freestyle "cheat as you like" games.
And if the rest of players, play this way, I'll go play NavyField instead of this Dice/Luck game.....

i agree and i play freestyle and dont use that tattic, so i must be one of the 1% that dont cheat, becouse thats what it is...low down players do that...how can anyone justify that, anyone that takes back to back turns before another player plays or half the round passes is just a cheat.... they know it is wrong, that is why there are time limmits and since a player choices to start and not finish well that is his turn and should not be able to start again very next round