kraphtone- extreme noob farming [warned]

[KraphtOne]

edit: ps. in case you can't tell from the link i dont like new recruits joining my games, you get minimal points and lose maximum points when you get bad dice or one of the fucks you over

Then drop the games when they start joining krapht. It's not rocket science.

alright dude you're back on the foe list for spamming this thread without looking at all the posts...

[Darthvadar]

edit: ps. in case you can't tell from the link i dont like new recruits joining my games, you get minimal points and lose maximum points when you get bad dice or one of the fucks you over

Then drop the games when they start joining krapht. It's not rocket science.

He shouldnt have to. They joined his games, its not his fault noobs join them. I have joined a few of these games and at no point were there any invites sent. No case here at all.

[colton24]

edit: ps. in case you can't tell from the link i dont like new recruits joining my games, you get minimal points and lose maximum points when you get bad dice or one of the fucks you over

Then drop the games when they start joining krapht. It's not rocket science.

alright dude you're back on the foe list...

Since when did you take me off?

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

Unwritten Rules

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits.

there are hundreds of games in this example. Alot more than a handfull.

Based on previous C&A cases, JR's thread should be taken seriously. As fasr as I recall from past decisions, starting games falls under the farming ban if (i) the player in question drops games where non-?s join and/or (ii) the player in question sends invites to ?s (or otherwise persuade them to join e.g. through pm's or chat invites).

Also, even if point (i) and/or (ii) above is not fulfilled, there mere fact that a player has a high-rate of ?s joining his games, this may warrant a warning or notice asking the player to review his choice of settings (the mere fact that non-?s avoid certain settings to a high extent may thus be a cause for concern).[/quote]


exactly

you think after 20 games of only new recruits joining that there was an issue? Nope, we continue to create hundreds of games for the sake of farming and than hide behind the EXCUSE...oh, "its my favorite settings "or "they joined my games I dint join theirs". Farming is farming. You always have a player that thinks he is going to get a away with it. Down the line there will be another and than another. But jesus...hundreds of games ?

[KraphtOne]

have you always had this opinion johnny?

AAFitz Farming New Recruits [cleared]

Postby demonfork on Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:42 am

AAFitz

The accused are suspected of:

Other: Systematically setting up games to lure New Recruits for easy wins due to deadbeating or taking advantage of their inexperience. After their bad first experience with CC these victims unfortunately left the site never to come back.

Game number(s):

Game 5054748
Game 4785467
Game 4350381
Game 4350240
Game 4239127
Game 4209390
Game 4196388
Game 4109974
Game 4103872
Game 4097302
Game 4065080
Game 3969777
Game 3969088
Game 3969084

Comments:

Notice that he found a difficult game setting that wooed the many unsuspecting New Recruits into his lions den, and he kept doing it over and over again.

I observed countless other games that AAFitz set up that had cadets and cooks in them, these players were no doubt NEW RECRUITS at the actual time that the game occurred.


and here was johnny's response...


Re: AAFitz Farming New Recruits

Postby JOHNNYROCKET24 on Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:05 am
this is the most rediculous thing I ever read. King Herpes can play unlimited games on Mogul and thats OK but this is farming?


so which is it johnny, you think it's farming or you don't?

you through letting me bitch slap you in this forum ???

[obliterationX]

If it wasn't for Lack's amazingly failed attempt to restrict new recruits to prevent farming, then farming wouldn't be this easy.

So ironic.

[AAFitz]

Well, given the volume of games, whether it was your intention or not, you have farmed here. The farming rule actually got started because of Klobber setting up lots of Circus games, and benefiting from all the deadbeating new recruits, so it most definitely includes setting up games, where lots of new recruits join continuously.

If youre doing something repeatedly that ends up in farming new recruits it is systematic, and it is farming. I absolutely agree that it is less farming than actively joining the games, and agree it might not even be your fault, but I also think any one thats reasonable, would be more careful than to let this happen, or certainly change the way they set up games, to keep it from happening, which makes it fairly clear that it didn't just happen, and that it, was at least, accepted, or at worst the ultimate goal.

This is farming, and while you might not be directly responsible, its ridiculous to say you couldnt do anything about it at all, and that you were surprised every time you woke up and magically had 3 new recruits in your games. Most would never allow this to happen repeatedly, and would change the way they made games if it started to happen, well before it got to the point you did. At the same time, new recruits should not be able to get into those games, and you should be able to make them if youd like to play them, but no one is buying that this is just one big accident either and you were helpless of droves of new recruits joined, and you couldnt find a way to make games and not have so many join. And never had a chance to drop them as they did. If it is completely accidental, you still could have stopped it from happening.

In any case, this ones and easy fix. Personally I think because you really didnt have complete control...theoretically...you probably only will get a warning. And then block new recruits from feudal...and then you can just farm noobs with your "favorite map" like those other players you mentioned, which is perfectly legal.

[KraphtOne]

Well, given the volume of games, whether it was your intention or not, you have farmed here. The farming rule actually got started because of Klobber setting up lots of Circus games, and benefiting from all the deadbeating new recruits, so it most definitely includes setting up games, where lots of new recruits join continuously.

If youre doing something repeatedly that ends up in farming new recruits it is systematic, and it is farming. I absolutely agree that it is less farming than actively joining the games, and agree it might not even be your fault, but I also think any one thats reasonable, would be more careful than to let this happen, or certainly change the way they set up games, to keep it from happening, which makes it fairly clear that it didn't just happen, and that it, was at least, accepted, or at worst the ultimate goal.

This is farming, and while you might not be directly responsible, its ridiculous to say you couldnt do anything about it at all, and that you were surprised every time you woke up and magically had 3 new recruits in your games. Most would never allow this to happen repeatedly, and would change the way they made games if it started to happen, well before it got to the point you did. At the same time, new recruits should not be able to get into those games, and you should be able to make them if youd like to play them, but no one is buying that this is just one big accident either and you were helpless of droves of new recruits joined, and you couldnt find a way to make games and not have so many join. And never had a chance to drop them as they did. If it is completely accidental, you still could have stopped it from happening.

In any case, this ones and easy fix. Personally I think because you really didnt have complete control...theoretically...you probably only will get a warning. And then block new recruits from feudal...and then you can just farm noobs with your "favorite map" like those other players you mentioned, which is perfectly legal.

Yet another person that isnt reading the posts before inputting their opinions...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=97374&hilit=minimum+rank

I'm well aware that these games attract new recruits... Not all of the games are filled with new recruits but a large number of them are... I like playing feudal... I don't have to worry bout getting fucked on a drop... And i don't have to worry about turn order like in city mogul... I shouldn't have to stop playing a map because new recruits are joining it... CC should make it so that new recruits cant join against high ranks or can't join certain maps...

AS I SUGGESTED IN THE SUGGESTIONS FORUM IF YOU'LL CLICK ON THE LINK

... i can see the next post restating the same thing i've already commented on ah i love you guys

and go figure fitz and obliteration both chimed in that i'm doing something wrong, and what a coincendence they were both already on the foe list ???? shocking...

[AAFitz]

have you always had this opinion johnny?

AAFitz Farming New Recruits [cleared]

Postby demonfork on Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:42 am

AAFitz

The accused are suspected of:

Other: Systematically setting up games to lure New Recruits for easy wins due to deadbeating or taking advantage of their inexperience. After their bad first experience with CC these victims unfortunately left the site never to come back.

Game number(s):

Game 5054748
Game 4785467
Game 4350381
Game 4350240
Game 4239127
Game 4209390
Game 4196388
Game 4109974
Game 4103872
Game 4097302
Game 4065080
Game 3969777
Game 3969088
Game 3969084

Comments:

Notice that he found a difficult game setting that wooed the many unsuspecting New Recruits into his lions den, and he kept doing it over and over again.

I observed countless other games that AAFitz set up that had cadets and cooks in them, these players were no doubt NEW RECRUITS at the actual time that the game occurred.


and here was johnny's response...


Re: AAFitz Farming New Recruits

Postby JOHNNYROCKET24 on Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:05 am
this is the most rediculous thing I ever read. King Herpes can play unlimited games on Mogul and thats OK but this is farming?


so which is it johnny, you think it's farming or you don't?

you through letting me bitch slap you in this forum ???

You probably should have read on. Those 14 games represented 3-5% of the players that joined during that period:

Postby AAFitz on Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:42 pm:

:lol: thank you DF. My first ever cheating thread. Im so happy.


If this is farming, I will stop. These listed, of course, are over a 6 month period, and at least 280 other players who werent newbies joined the other games. On my first page of games now, one newbie jumped in....and Id say its fairly clear, since most that join arent new recruits...im clearly not aiming for the poor buggers

Further, give me the option to keep them out, and I will in a heartbeat.

BTW. If you think starting games, when 3 to 5% of newbies join is farming,then you must agree that joining games with them as you do, and new players is definitely farming. Thanks for the admission.

Based on this data, I suggest CC make it impossible for new recruits to join games like this, and make it impossible for players like Demonfork to join their games and farm them for their points.

He is absolutely correct. This has to stop.

14 games with new recruits...not one joined by me ...and it is impossible, impossible to drop a 1v1 game if a new recruit joins.

14 games were found while over 100000 games were played on the site over the course of 6 months. Also in that time I believe I had played hundreds of games(I can copy them here like I did on that one if you want. It was a long post though...something like 6-8 pages of games, with 14 new recruits on them, so you can see why EVERYONE thought the thread was silly, except for me, who had fun with it.) so the percentage of new recruits was absolutely laughable. If however, you think thats farming, which no one did, including demonfork himself I might add, who did it because I asked if farming new players with few games was illegal, then feel free. I offered to take my warning, for having the occasional new recruit join 3-5% of the time.

Also, I might add, I know lots of tricky maps... World 2.1 is a blow up of the original classic map. I play it because its easy to figure out, straightforward play, and the strategy is obvious to anyone with any knowledge of the game.

Check out my percentage of games that had new recruits in them, compared to regular players. You might want to rethink suggesting that one was farming, because if you think my case is actually farming, you should suggest a permaban for yourself.

He found 14 out of 280 that were new recruits. I suggest the number was even higher than 14, because some went on to play more than 5 games after the friendly game I offered, lets say double at maybe 30, more if you wish. But still even at 50, it would have been 50 out of 280, and even that is a stretch of systematic farming. Playing 230 other players to take advantage of the 50 new guys...well...If that was my goal, im more guilty of being an idiot than a farmer I think.

So, now that we know you think this is farming, What are your percentage of new recruits to regular players....It must be around 3-5% like mine right?? Otherwise, pointing out this case would be kind of counter productive.

[AAFitz]

Yet another person that isnt reading the posts before inputting their opinions...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=97374&hilit=minimum+rank

I'm well aware that these games attract new recruits... Not all of the games are filled with new recruits but a large number of them are... I like playing feudal... I don't have to worry bout getting fucked on a drop... And i don't have to worry about turn order like in city mogul... I shouldn't have to stop playing a map because new recruits are joining it... CC should make it so that new recruits cant join against high ranks or can't join certain maps...

AS I SUGGESTED IN THE SUGGESTIONS FORUM IF YOU'LL CLICK ON THE LINK

... i can see the next post restating the same thing i've already commented on ah i love you guys

and go figure fitz and obliteration both chimed in that i'm doing something wrong, and what a coincendence they were both already on the foe list ???? shocking...

First of all, I think its great that you mention you foe fast players in your farming thread....thats priceless, and I love that you foed me. I get players to foe me all the time, because they simply dont expect me to be as fast as I am.

And I love that you dont think new recruits should join your games, but you are the one missing the point.

The fact is, "setting up multiple game when new recruits join repeatedly, and certainly as often as they do in yours is farming"
It was what originally sparked the farming rule. Im glad you dont like that they should join, but that does not excuse your responsibility to drop games if they are, or actually not set up so many at a time to prevent it from happening.

Its quite obvious you knew what was happening, wanted to happening despite your protest, and its obvious that if you understand the game at all, then you could have stopped this from happening, certainly well before it got to this point. But you didnt, and now you just want to cast blame everywhere else, and simply cant take responsibility for your actions.

Again, it sucks that you have no power to keep them out, so its obviously not completely your fault, but you could have reduced this number considerably, and the fact that you didnt, means you obviously either let it happen, or wanted to happen.
To argue it is honestly kind of silly to be honest, and quite frankly its obvious you cant keep doing it either way.

If you get bored and want a real game by the way...you can unfoe me. I love playing against fast and good players.

[KraphtOne]

Jesus, fitz... i agreed that you weren't farming, i foed obliteration because he foed me, and i foed you because you use delay tactics...

you keep saying that i should make different games if i notice these attract new players...

so i should move away from a setting that i know i play well and i love to play and instead play what ?

you know damn well i'm not doing anything wrong it's not like i'm setting up 1 vs 1 games or joining 1vs1 games with new recruits...

its multiplayer games, i've lost quite a few to some of these supposed new recruits... like i say i prefer the games without them as there is less chance that one will noob me or allow another player to kill them and take 2 castles very easily...

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

Well, given the volume of games, whether it was your intention or not, you have farmed here. The farming rule actually got started because of Klobber setting up lots of Circus games, and benefiting from all the deadbeating new recruits, so it most definitely includes setting up games, where lots of new recruits join continuously.

If youre doing something repeatedly that ends up in farming new recruits it is systematic, and it is farming. I absolutely agree that it is less farming than actively joining the games, and agree it might not even be your fault, but I also think any one thats reasonable, would be more careful than to let this happen, or certainly change the way they set up games, to keep it from happening, which makes it fairly clear that it didn't just happen, and that it, was at least, accepted, or at worst the ultimate goal.

This is farming, and while you might not be directly responsible, its ridiculous to say you couldnt do anything about it at all, and that you were surprised every time you woke up and magically had 3 new recruits in your games. Most would never allow this to happen repeatedly, and would change the way they made games if it started to happen, well before it got to the point you did. At the same time, new recruits should not be able to get into those games, and you should be able to make them if youd like to play them, but no one is buying that this is just one big accident either and you were helpless of droves of new recruits joined, and you couldnt find a way to make games and not have so many join. And never had a chance to drop them as they did. If it is completely accidental, you still could have stopped it from happening.

In any case, this ones and easy fix. Personally I think because you really didnt have complete control...theoretically...you probably only will get a warning. And then block new recruits from feudal...and then you can just farm noobs with your "favorite map" like those other players you mentioned, which is perfectly legal.

Yet another person that isnt reading the posts before inputting their opinions...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=97374&hilit=minimum+rank

I'm well aware that these games attract new recruits... Not all of the games are filled with new recruits but a large number of them are... I like playing feudal... I don't have to worry bout getting fucked on a drop... And i don't have to worry about turn order like in city mogul... I shouldn't have to stop playing a map because new recruits are joining it... CC should make it so that new recruits cant join against high ranks or can't join certain maps...

AS I SUGGESTED IN THE SUGGESTIONS FORUM IF YOU'LL CLICK ON THE LINK

... i can see the next post restating the same thing i've already commented on ah i love you guys

and go figure fitz and obliteration both chimed in that i'm doing something wrong, and what a coincendence they were both already on the foe list ???? shocking...

you keep linking that thread to this post. All that does is proove you are guilty. That thread just prooves you knew of the issue and reported it but still continued to farm new recruits...amazing

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

Jesus, fitz... i agreed that you weren't farming, i foed obliteration because he foed me, and i foed you because you use delay tactics...

you keep saying that i should make different games if i notice these attract new players...

so i should move away from a setting that i know i play well and i love to play and instead play what ?

you know damn well i'm not doing anything wrong it's not like i'm setting up 1 vs 1 games or joining 1vs1 games with new recruits...

its multiplayer games, i've lost quite a few to some of these supposed new recruits... like i say i prefer the games without them as there is less chance that one will noob me or allow another player to kill them and take 2 castles very easily...

players foeing each other has nothing to do with you farming. Please stay on topic and stop trying to derail this thread. Nobody cares about foe list and relative ranks.

you farmed hundreds of players willing. thats the bottom line.

[AAFitz]

Jesus, fitz... i agreed that you weren't farming, i foed obliteration because he foed me, and i foed you because you use delay tactics...

you keep saying that i should make different games if i notice these attract new players...

so i should move away from a setting that i know i play well and i love to play and instead play what ?

you know damn well i'm not doing anything wrong it's not like i'm setting up 1 vs 1 games or joining 1vs1 games with new recruits...

its multiplayer games, i've lost quite a few to some of these supposed new recruits... like i say i prefer the games without them as there is less chance that one will noob me or allow another player to kill them and take 2 castles very easily...

I know damn well you are farming actually. I cant know if its purposeful or not, and dont even mind giving you the benefit of the doubt, except I also know you could have avoided this completely very easily if you wanted, and cant possibly be blind enough not to have seen it coming.

If you set up 1v1 games, you wouldnt get near as many new recruits. Its the four player games that are attracting so many, just like kobber did with circus maximus...granted, klobber foed everyone with more than 5 games, so he did it more purposefully, but you seem to enjoy the foe button too. If you joined new recruits, its simply more obvious, but that doesnt mean that knowing they are going to join, and taking advantage of that, is not wrong too. Again, the no farming rules state that you cant settup multiple games when new recruits join them....Its part of the definition of farming.

Perhaps you havent read it, and didnt understand that...but at the same time, its obvious you saw that you were taking advantage of new recruits repeatedly, to a degree I cant simply believe you dont realize was wrong.

It is unfortunate that new recruits join those, and they should be blocked today as far as im concerned, but that doesnt allow you to take advantage of them as you have. It actually is your responsibility to make sure you dont farm, even if it is them joining your games. In any case, I doubt youll get more than a warning....but already this thread points out the actual rules, so it serves as a warning already. If you continue setting up those games and keep farming new recruits, Id fully expect more than a warning. You can plead your innocence all you want, but its up to you to make sure you dont farm from here on out obviously.

And sorry, its simply unbelievable to think you didnt see this happening, that you were powerless to stop it, and actually wanted to stop it given the sheer magnitude and percentage of game it happened in. Hell, I got accused for playing 5% new recruits...as you mentioned. What was your percentage of new recruits/non new recruits in the same time period? If its low, Ill certainly change my view. Looking at the volume of games though...It seems like it going to be a bit higher than that.
It will be a key piece of info. You should really start showing the stats, instead of just accusing everyone else of farming.

[Darthvadar]

Shall we include magiiiiiic in this thread as well!!

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

Shall we include magiiiiiic in this thread as well!!

no. create his own thread.

[lord voldemort]

This is pending...Please keep discussion healthy. Not bringing up same point again and again. Dont let this turn into spam/flames

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

This is pending...Please keep discussion healthy. Not bringing up same point again and again. Dont let this turn into spam/flames

personally,Im done with this. Nothing more to point out. Im just shocked that he thinks there was nothing wrong to play endless games against new recruits because he sucked them into a game type that nobody is interest in playing but him

[AAFitz]

This is actually for kraphtone: I didnt see it posted yet:

New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby lackattack on Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:07 pm
"Newbie Farming" is the technique of setting up as many games as possible (either by starting or joining them) with New Recruits to gain easy points by taking advantage of difficult game options and the fact the New Recruits are more likely to deadbeat.

Perhaps you havent read the way the rule is and was written. This is why you were reported, and why people are posting. It simply fits the description of what you were doing to a "T" Since you are posting that you dont think its against the rules, perhaps you havent seen the actual wording, and obvious intent of the rule.

Also, I think even to you, its clear that by setting up multiple games with new recruits, the rule was broken even if accidentally.

Its not a personal thing, its just how it is, and some know the rules better than others, and they change quite often, so it is possible you missed this along the way. Most however, are well aware of it by now though.

[alster]

I'm well aware that these games attract new recruits... Not all of the games are filled with new recruits but a large number of them are... I like playing feudal... I don't have to worry bout getting fucked on a drop... And i don't have to worry about turn order like in city mogul... I shouldn't have to stop playing a map because new recruits are joining it... CC should make it so that new recruits cant join against high ranks or can't join certain maps...

With respect to my post above, this is a troublesome statement. Of course, it's no surprise, but it is undisputed then that (i) you set up the games fully aware that a large number of ?s will join the games (due to the settings chose etc.), (ii) you do not chose to drop any games due to the fact that ?s join, and (iii) this is a repeated practice that you have not chosen (and does not seem to have any interest in) to end.

As noted from past mod practice, setting up games/settings with the intention to attract ?s or knowledge/awareness of the fact that the games/settings will attract ?s runs foul of the farming rule.

The question is then what an acceptable amount of ?s having joined over a given period of time is. As far as I know, an exact number has never been laid down (which may make sense, the mods may, for good reasons, wish to retain a margin of appreciation). But, if I’m not mistaken, I recall that a figure of 20% has been discussed. But for consistence, I’d recommend a review of past practice re this acceptable amount (what has run foul and what has not deemed to run foul of the anti-farming rule).

[AAFitz]

The question is then what an acceptable amount of ?s having joined over a given period of time is. As far as I know, an exact number has never been laid down (which may make sense, the mods may, for good reasons, wish to retain a margin of appreciation). But, if I’m not mistaken, I recall that a figure of 20% has been discussed. But for consistence, I’d recommend a review of past practice re this acceptable amount (what has run foul and what has not deemed to run foul of the anti-farming rule).

Personally, I actually think 20% is on the low side, I feel like 25% would be systematic, but I dont think the percentage is the only factor, I think the time factor and quantity of games comes into play. I doubt there is a strict formula, and I think it usually comes down to how all of the factors work together. Either way in this case, it seems a rather high percentage of games and players had in them, and were new recruits.

[KraphtOne]

If i were dropping games that had non-new recruits or had good players then i could see the argument... but i'm not...
Game 5645068
Game 5645069
Game 5651690
Game 5651692
Game 5651693
Game 5651694
Game 5651696
Game 5651697
Game 5657236
Game 5657241
Game 5666906
Game 5666907
Game 5666909
Game 5666918
Game 5670866
Game 5670867
Game 5670868
Game 5670869
Game 5670871
Game 5670874
Game 5670875
Game 5670876
Game 5670877
Game 5670879
Game 5675188
Game 5675189
Game 5675190
Game 5675192
Game 5675193
Game 5675194
Game 5680044
Game 5683156
Game 5703594
Game 5703595
Game 5703596
Game 5703597
Game 5707638
Game 5707641
Game 5707645
Game 5707646

and that's just 1 page...

and here's what it looks like when you lose... which happens all the time in multiplayer games because nothing is certain...

Game 5735941

[AAFitz]

So again, post your percentage of non-new recruit games...

and btw posting one loss...out of so many, isnt really going to help.. You might want to consider posting the percentage that you lost... unless its very small

You did read the rules I posted by lackattack didnt you though? Is what you were doing not expressly against that rule? Show the percentages. If they are low, youll be fine, though the quantity of them is still too many to allow from here on out.

[lord voldemort]

Feudal War Colonel213 +1787 273 from 373(73%) 631 Warmonger (88%)143 N00b Farmer (0.413)
Map rank of standard public casual games (feudal obviously)
It gives us a relative look at the ranks in the games. Though very rough

[AAFitz]

Feudal War Colonel213 +1787 273 from 373(73%) 631 Warmonger (88%)143 N00b Farmer (0.413)
Map rank of standard public casual games (feudal obviously)
It gives us a relative look at the ranks in the games. Though very rough

Yeah, the map rank really doesnt matter, because it changes with his score, and it would be low if he played all players that had played 6 games or more too.

The main factors are:

% new recruits in games compared to number of non new recruits

%games with new recruits.

If these numbers are high, it shows systematic farming, though in this case, the sheer quantity of new recruits actually shows there was farming, almost regardless of the percentage. The percentage will be high anyways I think, though.